116 réponses à ce sujet

[Shep309]

AreleX wrote...

Fa1nT wrote...

Doesn't the shadow tree and essentially the numerous threat reduction skills nullify a massive need for fortitude?

Sure the knockback ring/daggers are awesome, but a rogue is not supposed to be hit too many times?

To an extent, but it's more of a matter of 'better to have and not need, than need and not have'.

I'm working on ways to circumvent stunlock without going into Shadow, because Vendetta (Duelist tree) is one of the coolest ****ing skills in the GAME.

EDIT: Another Assassin just got straight up handled by Explosive Strike. It's a great way to one-shot Elites early game before you progress in the Assassin tree.

I haven't done much play with a dw rogue, but don't you have to build up explosive strike before you can trigger it?  Seems like you'd draw aggro before you fill up the "charges"

[Vertigo_1]

Yes please. I don't mean to offend but I prefer DW rogue over archer a lot more. Plus I'm going to start a new rogue playthrough soon so it wouldn't hurt to get some tips

In response to your video, I also found that encounter much easier with the rogue (played 2H warrior prior).

[Irish Porkchopp]

I'm putting my vote in for this.  Yes please!

[ExcitedApathy]

I always enjoy reading other people's build ideas. It gives me ideas on things that I may have missed out on and a chance to try something else. I've started a Archer rogue, but I don't find it that fun. I think after the auto-attack monster that is the Mach 5 build, I just don't wanna spend my time constantly pressing "A". So I vote "Yea" on the motion for a good DW Rogue build guide.

[Altima Darkspells]

AreleX wrote...

My biggest issue with Disorient is its inconsistency; many skills involving it don't work properly, but if it worked the way it was supposed to, I'd give it more consideration. The best results I've had with it were using Fatiuging Fog, and I don't want to have to waste 4 points just to get to it.

The bonus crit damage passive from Shadow is REALLY hard to ignore, same with Inconspicuous' instant threat reduction utility.I'll probably write up one build using Shadow/Assassin and one with Duelist/Assassin, because I don't want my love for Vendetta to blind me from all the possibilities that come with Shadow.

Yeah, disorient really does seem to be the most crap-shooty of the CCC abilities.  You either spend an arm and a leg getting the skills or you just live without it.

And Inconspicuous?  Pfft.  Try Decoy.  It's quickly becoming one of my favorite skills.  Basically begs your warrior and mages to nuke them.

Plus it makes the duel boss at the end of Act 2 so much easier.

And you can make it explode.

Plus Decoy is the sexiest talent in the game, because of doubles the number of Hawkes on the field.  And that's just fantastic.

[Meteor_VII]

Right now I am playing an Archer Rogue and finding it quite enjoyable. But I keep telling myself that i am going to respec DW whenever i get more than just two good daggers (the first two I usually just throw on Isabela).

[Altima Darkspells]

Meteor_VII wrote...

Right now I am playing an Archer Rogue and finding it quite enjoyable. But I keep telling myself that i am going to respec DW whenever i get more than just two good daggers (the first two I usually just throw on Isabela).

If you don't put any points into DW or Archery, you can switch whenever you like.  Towards the end of the game, the DW/Archery talents usually reduce your DPS anyway.

[Arakane]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

If you don't put any points into DW or Archery, you can switch whenever you like.  Towards the end of the game, the DW/Archery talents usually reduce your DPS anyway.

Is this true? do the DW points I'm spending now really hinder the DPS toword act 2 & 3? Is there anyone that can give me a sample build if this is the case. I'm not much for constantly respeccing my characters so something that would work off a single respec would be nice...

@AreleX
I can't wait to see what you come up with I really enjoy your videos and playing the Berserker Vanguard Build 

[AreleX]

Arakane wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

If you don't put any points into DW or Archery, you can switch whenever you like.  Towards the end of the game, the DW/Archery talents usually reduce your DPS anyway.

Is this true? do the DW points I'm spending now really hinder the DPS toword act 2 & 3? Is there anyone that can give me a sample build if this is the case. I'm not much for constantly respeccing my characters so something that would work off a single respec would be nice...

@AreleX
I can't wait to see what you come up with I really enjoy your videos and playing the Berserker Vanguard Build 

The concept behind it is very much similar  to the reason why I suggest against using talents for damage purposes in the Mach-5 build; in the time it's going to take you to do whatever talent (cases like Assassinate/Vendetta/Explosive Strike setups or Twin Fangs aside) you choose, you could've probably hit the enemy for more damage, albeit in smaller increments, but at less of a hit to your STA pool.

I personally think, for example, that Backstab is one of the worst abilities for a DW rogue, because not only is it lowering your DPS, it's also burning your stamina as well (I throw it out on occasion, just because it looks awesome). This is in addition to the fact that that if you get knocked out of it, you wasted your stamina for absolutely nothing.

Modifié par AreleX, 30 mars 2011 - 05:06 .

[lazuli]

I would be interested in a DW Rogue guide. I'm especially curious to see how you handle the bigger bosses like the High Dragon and Ancient Rock Wraith.

[IN1]

Bahanix wrote...

I always enjoy reading other people's build ideas. It gives me ideas on things that I may have missed out on and a chance to try something else. I've started a Archer rogue, but I don't find it that fun. I think after the auto-attack monster that is the Mach 5 build, I just don't wanna spend my time constantly pressing "A". So I vote "Yea" on the motion for a good DW Rogue build guide.

Hmm. Well, a late-game DW rogue is almost exclusively auto-attack. If you are using him any other way (bar very occasional Assassinate on Lieutenant rank+), you are gimping your damage output greatly. Take this or this as an example.

A late-game archer, on the other hand, is, optimally, a talent chain exploiter. My own assessment based on considerable experience with archer vs DW: DW surely look cooler, but is horribly unsafe and totally unsuitable for soloing. It's a much 'dumber' experience: you just slash at insane speed, rush attack, slash at insane speed, rush attack, etc. Ah, another thing: the speed is not that insane -- not only is your natural attack animation speed ~5% lower than S&S warrior's, you also won't go over +70% (Speed modal+Isabela+Haste), while a S&S warrior can easily hit +135% (+50% from Berserker, +50% from Haste, +30% from Reaver, +5% from Izzy) before gear bonuses (not that they are worth it).

[AreleX]

You just take the fun out of everything with your 'numbers' and 'logic'!

[IN1]

AreleX wrote...

You just take the fun out of everything with your 'numbers' and 'logic'!

Heh, not really  See, I admit he looks much cooler than that archer guy (ranged ****!). Seriously, DW is a clearly better option, if you play it machoistic console-style: i. e., no pausing/no microing. If you happen to be one of those bespectacled nerdy PC guys, though, archer is the way to go.

[AreleX]

I've added a new video. I'll probably only make one more before Act II, since early-game DW rogue is an exercise in patience/temperance until you get to the fun stuff. Check it out.

DW Assassin on the Wounded Coast

I really need better video compression...

Modifié par AreleX, 30 mars 2011 - 06:17 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

*adjusts her glasses* And yet I can't get into an Archer.
I blame Verric's Marksman tree. And his chest hair.

[mr_afk]

This guide sounds interesting. I like big numbers so haven't tried DW rogue yet, but after watching those videos i'm thinking that it might be good fun anyhow. Looks a lot more interactive and smooth than my archery and mage play-through - though I suspect thats more to do with relative skill levels than the class. haha

Btw, what inconsistencies with Disorient did you find? Do you know if the stealth (shadow veil) then hail of arrows (ambush + disorientating criticals) results in automatic disorientation and critical hits over the area? Or were those tactics/skill points I invested all for nothing?

Modifié par mr_afk, 30 mars 2011 - 07:12 .

[ExcitedApathy]

IN1 wrote...

Bahanix wrote...

I always enjoy reading other people's build ideas. It gives me ideas on things that I may have missed out on and a chance to try something else. I've started a Archer rogue, but I don't find it that fun. I think after the auto-attack monster that is the Mach 5 build, I just don't wanna spend my time constantly pressing "A". So I vote "Yea" on the motion for a good DW Rogue build guide.

Hmm. Well, a late-game DW rogue is almost exclusively auto-attack. If you are using him any other way (bar very occasional Assassinate on Lieutenant rank+), you are gimping your damage output greatly. Take this or this as an example.

A late-game archer, on the other hand, is, optimally, a talent chain exploiter. My own assessment based on considerable experience with archer vs DW: DW surely look cooler, but is horribly unsafe and totally unsuitable for soloing. It's a much 'dumber' experience: you just slash at insane speed, rush attack, slash at insane speed, rush attack, etc. Ah, another thing: the speed is not that insane -- not only is your natural attack animation speed ~5% lower than S&S warrior's, you also won't go over +70% (Speed modal+Isabela+Haste), while a S&S warrior can easily hit +135% (+50% from Berserker, +50% from Haste, +30% from Reaver, +5% from Izzy) before gear bonuses (not that they are worth it).

Those are both very cool videos. My archer is only lv 9 (I think), specced into Stealth (with Ambush), Blindside, and a Maker's Sigh bugged Bursting Arrow. So my auto-attack rogue is my own doing. I play exclusively on Normal (xbox 360), so I realize what works for me doesn't work for a lot of others.

[AreleX]

I saw some requests for a video of Night Lies, so here it is.

DW Assassin - Night Lies

The most important parts are neutralizing the archers ASAP, being prepared for the adds (they spawn behind you, in the room you came in, and on/around the stairs), and helping out your tank every once in a while. If you can do that, you should do great.

mr_afk wrote...

Btw, what inconsistencies with Disorient
did you find? Do you know if the stealth (shadow veil) then hail of
arrows (ambush + disorientating criticals) results in automatic
disorientation and critical hits over the area? Or were those
tactics/skill points I invested all for nothing?

When I say 'inconsistent', I mean that the Disorient effect on some skills (Disorienting Criticals, Disorienting Shot upgrade for Pinning Shot) don't work the way they're supposed to, something with the way the game calculates the chance for Disorient, I'm assuming. The most consistent way I've found to get the effect is through Fatiguing Fog, but you have to spend a LOT of points to get there, and those could be better used elsewhere.

Modifié par AreleX, 30 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[opposition01]

If you're still gauging interest...

Even having already done my DW Assassin/Duelist playthrough I would still love to see your guide and maybe trade notes. I've just read your 2H guide in prep for my warrior playthrough and find it invaluable.

From my own experience, I agree completely with your initital impression of Disorient effect. Proc'ing Disorient takes a far heavier point investment and is not nearly as intuitive to keep up as say Stagger. Rogues are well primed to take advantage of cross class combos, but not so well suited to setting them up for others.

I also love the Assassin/Duelist combination, and heavily favor it for those actually making full use of their team. Vendetta is perhaps my favorite ability for the teleport aspect, and between Vendetta and Assassinate you can take advantage of both Stagger and Brittle.

Take Stealth, and either the stun bomb or evade with adv. and your aggro management problems are solved.

Assassin/Shadow is however a much more survivable build. For those planning to solo nightmare, or perhaps even just run it without pausing, it is likely a better option.

[Shep309]

Arelex, sometimes I hate you and how easy you make things look. I just spent the better part of an hour on the "Night Lies" quest with my archer, getting my arse handed to me.

Modifié par Shep309, 30 mars 2011 - 07:22 .

[Musou1776]

Reason I prefer Aveline over Fenris for tank is less FF and stagger from shield bash works on ALL enemies every time and has very rapid cool down. Then any Brittle enemies you demolish with Assassinate.

My first playthrough was up to 17 with DW rogue and a revisit on a subsequent playthrough is eventually planned (after several others already in mix... Game has mad replay value IMO). Interested to see what one can do with greater knowledge of game mechanics.

[Musou1776]

Another thing with rogue that I would like to see is a detailed look at the math involved with duelist versus shadow for second specialty. Defense is a meh stat and attack already seems to hit 100, but vendetta seems good and throw the gauntlet with the crit chance bonus seems like it might be useful. OTOH shadow's disorienting criticals not working and many of its other abilities fancy ways to shed threat make it also seem mediocre.

[Dead End FRS]

In my opinion, the two are way too close to tell which one is better (for DW that is). It's the choice between threat managment and survivablity vs. mobility and additional burst damage. Shadow sure has the bigger numbers, but duelist has more attack and can take speed over precision because of it.

Overall there might be a mathmatical difference, but it only really applies to the kind of bosses where dps doesn't matter since they are push-overs anyway.

[Iyose]

I'm very interested just started a DW rogue and going for the Assassin/Shadow build. The build I created is doing well so far.