116 réponses à ce sujet

[AreleX]

I'm going to try having Anders run Vengeance for a bit in the Deep Roads, since I don't have my beloved Merrill.

Great idea, or GREATEST idea?

[Musou1776]

Dead End FRS wrote...

In my opinion, the two are way too close to tell which one is better (for DW that is). It's the choice between threat managment and survivablity vs. mobility and additional burst damage. Shadow sure has the bigger numbers, but duelist has more attack and can take speed over precision because of it.

Overall there might be a mathmatical difference, but it only really applies to the kind of bosses where dps doesn't matter since they are push-overs anyway.

Well...

I would like to actually SEE those math breakdowns (done by other people because I am lazy, LOL) to actually look at the differences.  The automatic crits for flanking from Shadow is good (althought your crit chance will already be super high 100% of the time, plus you will have 100% through pinpoint attacks or whatever it is called from Assassin 50% of the time), the +25% crit damage is good, but Disorienting Criticals never seemed to work for me.  Duelist the extra attack and defense seems pointless, as I almost always hit 100% attack on any char eventually.  Vendetta with the big hammer against staggered seems the only real benefit, along with the +crit chance from throw the gauntlet/upgraded parry synergy.

I would think Speed would be a no brainer over Precision always as I never seem to lack in attack with any build.  Could you explain why you would want Precision?

[Musou1776]

Great idea, or GREATEST idea?

Yes.  Reading that guide about how to use Anders Martyr abilities really opened my eyes on how versatile a character he is.

[fuji7x]

On the topic of duelist vs. shadow. I haven't used duelist, but I can say that Decoy was one of my most used skills. It's another meat shield (like the dog) but the good thing is all threat transfers to it and you enter stealth. It allows hit and run tactics for the most part allowing you to snipe a lieutenant/boss with assinate/twin blades and then get the heck outta dodge. It also meant right at the beginning of a battle I could throw down a decoy then bee-line for the enemy mage/hunters who were my DW hawke's primary target.

I went heavy stealth/shroud on my DW rogue and it was fun since it plays differently than a warrior or mage. DPS-wise, it probably isn't as strong as the duelist/assassin, but it was definitely a lot of fun, probably moreso than my 2h warrior (who is still a lot of fun).

[Altima Darkspells]

Arelex should call her DW Rogue "Mario" 'cause she just jumps on a trash mob and they explode.

Mine does too, and it's hilarious.

Also, I agree that backstab is pretty bad. Still, it's useful for instantly getting into flank position for good critical chance bonuses. Sometimes the narrow corridors get so crowded that you have to use it to get into position.

[aznricepuff]

My first playthrough was with DW rogue on nightmare, and I have to say it was really fun. It's a bit challenging until you get to around level 7 and can begin exploiting CCCs with Merciless Strike, then everything turns into a bit of a cakewalk. The only fights I had any trouble with were Xebenkeck and Brekker (four boss Assassins really can tear your party apart).

Fa1nT wrote...

When doing the berserker vanguard, this was the hardest fight in the entire game for me.

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Night_Lies

Fight was a cakewalk for me as a DW rogue. Basically just sat Aveline next to the captain while my rogue went around killing archers. Also used shield bash + chain reaction to clear melee adds faster.

[opposition01]

So, I think everyone is in agreement that of the Rogue specializations Assassin is a no brainer, making either Duelist or Shadow just a really nice supplement to that. But....

Has anyone tried a Duelist/Shadow instead? Talk about a mage hunter, drop a Decoy and then Vendetta behind them on the opposite side of the field....

[Fa1nT]

Assassin is what makes Rogues a boss killer... without it I don't see how a rogue could ever outclass a 2h warrior in anything

[aznricepuff]

opposition01 wrote...

So, I think everyone is in agreement that of the Rogue specializations Assassin is a no brainer, making either Duelist or Shadow just a really nice supplement to that. But....

Has anyone tried a Duelist/Shadow instead? Talk about a mage hunter, drop a Decoy and then Vendetta behind them on the opposite side of the field....

The Assassin tree is simply too critical (no pun intended) for rogues to be ignored. Of course you have Assassinate + MoD for massive damage against bosses, something that Vendetta can never match. You also have a passive that gives you +1% crit bonus dmg for every point in Cun, easily taking your crit bonus dmg to above 200%. And then you have the passive that restores stamina on kills, which allows you to spam twin fangs and assassinate on cooldown for a really long time as long as you are killing things.

[opposition01]

Yes, I get all that. You don't have to sell me on Assassin, I enjoyed it thoroughly. But I'm still wondering if anyone has tried a Duelist/Shadow....

[AreleX]

I just fought the Deep Roads Dragon and killed it in about a minute, literally.

MVP? Dog. Hands down.

Aveline was pretty good too, I guess.

Anders actually did pretty good with Martyr too, which was just about the exact opposite of my expectations, since my fondest memories of him are about his doing everything he possibly could to thwart my two-hander. There's a thread on Martyr? I've gotta check that out.

Modifié par AreleX, 31 mars 2011 - 01:01 .

[Musou1776]

Martyr thread:

http://social.biowar...5/index/6850878

Only thing I don't know is how much it reduces cooldown for haste. Still kicking it around myself.

[Musou1776]

LOL OK doing it manually was able to create perma haste, now just have to play with the tactics more to get the AI to do it without killing itself.

[Altima Darkspells]

AreleX wrote...

I just fought the Deep Roads Dragon and killed it in about a minute, literally.

A minute?  On nightmare?

What took you so long!

[AreleX]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

AreleX wrote...

I just fought the Deep Roads Dragon and killed it in about a minute, literally.

A minute?  On nightmare?

What took you so long!

Man I had to kill the adds before they bit Anders and Varric's squishy asses!

Dog can only hold aggro like a boss for so long...



The real MVP was Aveline. Seriously. It was the greatest display of NPC tanking I have ever seen in my life, she held aggro from the dragon the ENTIRE time. Her and Dog had the entire field pissed at them every second, save for one errant baby dragon that hated Anders almost as much as I do.

I shed a tear of pride at the end of the fight.

Modifié par AreleX, 31 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[lazuli]

AreleX wrote...
Her and Dog had the entire field pissed at them every second, save for one errant baby dragon that hated Anders almost as much as I do.

I laughed.  Aveline was the heart and soul of my Nightmare DW Rogue playthrough.

[Altima Darkspells]

AreleX wrote...


Man I had to kill the adds before they bit Anders and Varric's squishy asses!

Dog can only hold aggro like a boss for so long...

Excuses, excuses.

It's Anders.  You let his magical arse die.

[mikeyhaha1]

I'd love to see a DW Rogue build guide from you, heck I would even dig it if you took a gander at a Mage

[AreleX]

I saw some boss fight requests, so here are the two I did yesterday in the Deep Roads, featuring top-notch AI Tanking (I'm being serious, Aveline/Dog locked **** DOWN), killing the Dragon in one minute, and taking down the Rock Wraith in 4.

One-Minute Deep Roads Dragon Boss Kill
DW Assassin vs the Ancient Rock Wraith

Enjoy!

Modifié par AreleX, 31 mars 2011 - 11:31 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Epic dragon fight. Though Anders' Heals were very well timed.
Awesome choice for song too.

[AreleX]

I placed more trust in both Anders and Aveline than is wise or safe, probably, but it turned out well. Thank god for Martyr.

[Trefecka]

Thats pretty damn awesome. My biggest question is how you have your tank tactics set up. I've tried to come up with one, but Aveline/Fenris always seem to go wild and never do what I want them to do :s.

[Pzykozis]

I'll definately be watching this thread, already done a playthrough on hard with Assassin/Shadow, but definately looking forward to trying Assassin/Duelist, like the above poster I'm interested in how you've set Aveline up, seems you have her set up with damage abilites (saw claymore fire off) but she still seems to have some great damage resistance so look forward to info that comes out in that regard.

[Shep309]

I am thouroughly impressed Aveline held aggro like that. She never seems to be able to hold it for me, I must have her abilites wrong or something. Usually either I draw aggro or one of my mages does.

Sweet vid

[AreleX]

Would you guys rather have a new thread, or just edit the guide into the OP of this one?