18 réponses à ce sujet

[Tomomi]

This is a repost from a different forum, per suggestion from other members.

http://social.biowar...24389/1#6825577

With a lot of conditional testing, I shall proudly (but sadly) present my new discovery:  Every time warrior Hawke raised up after fallen in battle, whether raised by a spell, potion, or battle end, Hawke suffered no injury, but permanent 20HP loss.

I am playing on PC. Game is up to date with patch 1.01.  Steam version.  Here are the parameters I have:

- Although I did use some mods (Isabella's bug work-around, some face morph, etc...), I renamed the override folder so DA2 would not even see I have any mod => Game is 100% vanilla.

- I tried to switch from Nightmare to Hard, to Normal, and even Casual.  And tested on all these 4 modes.

- I tried reseting all abilities with Maker's Sigh, with no ability and only base stat.

- I removed completely all gear, accessories, weapon, armor: totally bare bottom.

- I tested with 3 different methods of raising: spell (from Anders), potion from any companion, and battle end.

All give the same result:  20HP permanent loss after raised.

At a known point in Act 2, warrior Hawke has 252 HP.  Load a few other save later, warrior Hawke has 232 HP (I presumed I died once).  At the latest save, Hawke starts out with only 192 HP.  This is where all my test takes place.  And final HP is 172HP, it will not go any further even taking a few more deaths afterward.  

Game condition: Act 2, after finishing Anders' personal quest, working on Varric's personal quest while inside Batrand's house.  Hawke is warrior, at level 15.  Testing from earlier saved game with 252 HP does yield the same result: 252HP goes to 232 HP.  

Other findings:

- Loading and replaying old saved games: It appears that no matter how many times Hawke dies per battle and location, there is only a permanent 20HP loss once.  Say I am replaying on Fool's Gold quest, starting with 252 HP, Hawke died about 5-6 times from the first battle to the last battle but HP only went from 252 to 232 and stopped.  The HP drop will see when I go to another zone and start on another quest, in this case, Anders request to confront Ser Alrick.  Here Hawke died about 5 times and lost another 20 HP from 232 to 212, only once.  Hawke suffers no injury at all.

- Briefly loaded on another character who is a mage, also Fool's Gold.  Mage with "Second Chance" passive ability that is immune to Injury, first test shows Hawke takes no permanent HP loss.  Upon resetting everything and this time bare bottom with no ability, base stat (thus no "Second Chance"), Hawke died without injury, and no HP loss.  No further testing on mage.

- Loading into the very first of warrior's Act 2 battle in Abandoned Thaig (Sundermount), this bug does not happen.  Hawke's 250 HP stayed the same after death.  No further testing on this save.  So I do believe the bug is triggered as a flag by more quests I will do in Act 2.  I believe Isabella was romanced, which is one of the special flag other than typical quests.

Now I went above and beyond to diagnose this bug and in hope to find my own work-around but sadly there is NONE.  Except if I am not to allow Hawke to die whatsoever.
_______________________________________________________________

Pardon me if I do sound offensive.  But indeed I am a paying customer.  I paid $60 for this game.  Within these 2 weeks I dealt with Maker's Sigh bug, Isabella's "thumbs up" bug in which I had to use a 3rd party program Save Game Editor to fix, and then have to invest my time to download a mod that gives a work-around.  And now this, Bioware does realize that playing a warrior class and having the lowest HP in the entire party is not acceptable right?  I am unable to continue the game with this bug.  At this point my only hope is digging into the saved game via Save Game Editor in hope to correct my loss of HP (with no guarantee I will find it).

But I wonder why I even have to resolve into using 3rd party program to "hack" the game, in order for me to play the game as intended?  I paid $60 did I not?  Why leave us players to fix Bioware's own game on our own without even acknowledging the bugs.

Below list, as far as I know, are the "known" issues that Bioware acknowledges. I do not see Maker's Sigh bug in it.  I do not see Armistice/Goad bug (on console) in it.  I do not see Isabella's bug in it.  These are all over the internet.  Will I see this bug being acknowledged by Bioware?  I really hope so, but hold very little hope.  I do sound very upset because I am very upset: I spent an entire afternoon trying to fix a bug in Dragon Age 2, as my other 2 afternoons spent to fix Maker's Sigh and Isabella's bug.  The whole time Bioware refused to acknowledge those are even bugs.

http://social.biowar...0/index/6712584

[Tomomi]

I am willing to upload my saved games if Bioware requires. I just want this bug to be looked at seriously, by Bioware or whoever can make a mod to fix it. I do notice it does not happen on a wide scale, just a certain conditions as a result of my personal choices made in the game. Therefore starting another character does not guarantee me to avoid this bug either, especially at this point I do not even know what exactly causes this bug.

I hope "runscript killallhostiles" will not be my weapon of choice other than tonight as I will have to pick the earliest known clean saved game from Act 2 to replay, absolutely without allowing Hawke to die. This is not so easy on Nightmare mode.

[Nukenin]

I suspect at one point your warrior Hawke had the Fallen set equipped (+1 strength, +20 health set bonus) and that you are noticing the issue when loading subsequent saves in which warrior Hawke is no longer wearing any set pieces (i.e. no longer wearing any Fallen, nor Stonehammer, nor Champion).

This is actually a variant of the known issue behind the Maker's Sigh and Isabella/Sebastian friendship buff bugs which has been confirmed and has a fix in testing for (hopefully) the next patch.

One possible way to avoid it is to always wear at least one set piece (apparently any set will do) once you have completed a set and thus received that set's bonus. Another way to avoid it is to never complete a set and thus never receive a set bonus.

Your strength was probably also being decreased every time you took a hit to your health; such was the case in my brief testing when I was looking at this bug.

[dinria]

Just wanna make this clear because I'm on a warrior atm. To "fix" this bug; if I've ever had all the Fallen parts equipped at the same time I have to keep one set piece of any set to avoid loosing hp and strength?

[blahq34653]

I noticed this too but thought it was a problem with the save game editor that I was using to fix the attack speed bug so I never complained. Good to know that it wasn't the mod causing the problem.

[Nukenin]

dinria wrote...

Just wanna make this clear because I'm on a warrior atm. To "fix" this bug; if I've ever had all the Fallen parts equipped at the same time I have to keep one set piece of any set to avoid loosing hp and strength?

In my experience this is the case.  It doesn't "fix" the bug; it just avoids the effects of the bug.

Basically, if you have equipped any set such that you've received the set bonus, then unequip that set or otherwise replace each piece of the set with pieces not belonging to any set, then save your game, then reload that saved game, you might note (on your Abilities page, in the section where your Summon Mabari ability and friendship buffs also appear) that you've somehow regained the set bonus even though you no longer have the set equipped.  (And though the game thinks you have the set bonus your stats will not be adjusted upwards.)

Then if you equip/unequip anything, the game will note "hey, Hawke's no longer wearing all the pieces of set X, so let's remove that bonus!".  So the ability is stripped, along with the bonus (+1 STR, +20 Health in the case of the Fallen set).  Of course, your stats had not been adjusted upwards, so now you've just permanently lost +1 STR, +20 Health (in the case of the Fallen set example).

You adventure on, oblivious to this (and for whatever reason not equipping any set pieces for armor).  Save your game before a troublesome fight or an awkward dialogue.  The fight goes bad or you make the wrong dialogue choices, so you reload.  Probably unbeknownst to you, the game once more thinks you have that armor set buff applied.  You make an equipment change and bam!  More permanent attribute loss.

Rinse, repeat, and eventually you will be wondering why your warrior Hawke has a greatly diminished health pool (or armor, if you've managed to trip up the bug with the Stonehammer or Champion sets), or your rogue Hawke has lost so much stamina (not sure if you'd notice the hit to displacement with the second or Champion rogue set), or your mage Hawke has a greatly diminished mana pool (or negative Defense, if you tripped up the bug with the second or Champion mage sets).

Having any set piece equipped seems to turn off any mis-saved, lingering armor set buff upon game load, so you avoid this issue as long as you've got any set piece equipped.  And of course if you have a full set equipped, you should receive the appropriate armor set buff legitimately (i.e. it will appropriately boost your stats and when removed will not permanently damage them, at least so long as you don't trip up the bug by unequipping all set pieces then saving your game with no set pieces equipped then later reload that save).

Hopefully the next patch will render this entire post a bunch of meaningless drivel.  

tl;dr: If you've ever worn a complete armor set on Hawke, then from that point on, always wear at least one piece from any armor set or you risk permanent attribute loss due to a bug.

[Jman5]

tl;dr: If you've ever worn a complete armor set on Hawke, then from that point on, always wear at least one piece from any armor set or you risk permanent attribute loss due to a bug.

God...

[Korhiann]

Bloody hell, good thing I always kept a set piece because I found said piece to be useful. Seems like there are some serious underlining issues with flags in this game.

[Luke Barrett]

There is a systemic issue with passive skills that, once affected, seems to be extremely pervasive. We're are of this (and all issues related: makers sigh, thumbs up...etc) and are vigorously working on getting this, among other major issues, tested and sent out to everyone as soon as possible.

The patch will be big. It will be glorious. It will be here...soon.

[Korhiann]

Hehe looking forward to reading what little devil(s) has causing all this tomfoolery.

[RaenImrahl]

Luke Barrett wrote...

The patch will be big. It will be glorious. It will be here...soon.

Okay... I know why you can't speak about specifics.  I understand.  But now you're just enjoying it. 

[Morgora]

@Nukenin

Thank you so much for the explanation!

[Mongoose22]

Luke Barrett wrote...

There is a systemic issue with passive skills that, once affected, seems to be extremely pervasive. We're are of this (and all issues related: makers sigh, thumbs up...etc) and are vigorously working on getting this, among other major issues, tested and sent out to everyone as soon as possible.

The patch will be big. It will be glorious. It will be here...soon.

I'm sure many would've preferred "small, mundane, and here already" for the big ticket bugs, but at least "soon" sounds promising.

Modifié par Mongoose22, 29 mars 2011 - 06:30 .

[Nukenin]

Luke Barrett wrote...

[…]
The patch will be big. It will be glorious. It will be here...soon.

Can I quote you on that?    (He asks, quoting you on that.)

I'm getting ready to try a (possibly all-rogue, at least by Act II, and no, I'm not insane, not nightmare!) playthrough where I plan on actively playing with Isabela (multiple definitions thereof), and I feel dirty about using one of the workarounds to ensure I don't get impacted negatively by her Thumbs Up friendship buff.  (I'd feel less dirty if I were simply avoiding it by maxing her rivalry, but that is for yet another future playthrough.)

(EDIT: Dang dangling parenthetical!)

From another thread and another BioWare poster:

Peter Thomas wrote...

Ok, maybe I shouldn't comment on this, since I'm not the one fixing it, but I also think a little explanation is deserved.

According to the last information I had, it seems like the Maker's Sigh, follower player bonuses, and item sets bugs are actually all symptoms of the same issue. The game saves out the ability list incorrectly, leading to corruption. Those particular bonuses are abilities, which is why they show up on your ability screen.
[…]

This may not be the final, definitive cause for the issues but it makes sense to me.

Modifié par Nukenin, 29 mars 2011 - 06:37 .

[Tomomi]

Luke Barrett wrote...

There is a systemic issue with passive skills that, once affected, seems to be extremely pervasive. We're are of this (and all issues related: makers sigh, thumbs up...etc) and are vigorously working on getting this, among other major issues, tested and sent out to everyone as soon as possible.

The patch will be big. It will be glorious. It will be here...soon.

I am glad to hear at least a response from someone of Bioware's representative.  I am a programmer/graphic designer myself.  So I do understand clearly that nothing will be perfect even with a tiny program, let alone such a huge project like this game.  So at least as long as Bioware is acknowledging the bugs, my confident toward the company is partially restored. 

Nukenin wrote...

I suspect at one point your warrior Hawke had the Fallen set equipped (+1 strength, +20 health set bonus) and that you are noticing the issue when loading subsequent saves in which warrior Hawke is no longer wearing any set pieces (i.e. no longer wearing any Fallen, nor Stonehammer, nor Champion).

This is actually a variant of the known issue behind the Maker's Sigh and Isabella/Sebastian friendship buff bugs which has been confirmed and has a fix in testing for (hopefully) the next patch.

One possible way to avoid it is to always wear at least one set piece (apparently any set will do) once you have completed a set and thus received that set's bonus. Another way to avoid it is to never complete a set and thus never receive a set bonus.

Your strength was probably also being decreased every time you took a hit to your health; such was the case in my brief testing when I was looking at this bug.

Your speculation is somewhat close. I did not notice Strength as I did not pay attention to.  But HP seems more obvious to me when I co-incidentally attempted to spec Fenris to be as close to warrior Hawke as possible, thus first thing I take note is their HP bars.  So 2 things I felt odd: no injury, and yes, since you mentioned it, the Fallen Armor set bonus.  It was not that good in Act 2 as there are already better gear.  First thing I changed was the breastplate, and yet I still noticed the set bonus.  For this, I am going to do more testing and see if there is a way around this.  But I certainly do not hope to wear full set of the Fallen Armor running around the whole Ac2.  One of your speculation is not correct though.  Funny how I did not lose HP when I changed gear or save/load.  My HP loss was to be raised after a death (by potion, spell, or battle finish).  And it only happens ONCE per area or quest (maybe area).  So this is why it did take me a while to notice.  Stay tuned for some tests I will make.

Modifié par Tomomi, 29 mars 2011 - 11:45 .

[Nukenin]

Yep, the second I fall in battle I'm hitting the reload before my Hawke's knees even bend, so I've not seen this specific variant of what the issue. Hopefully it's just another take on the same issue and all is made well in the next patch.

I can't seem to recreate right now (in Act III) what triggered the issue for me (back in Act II) when I last tested it so there's obviously other factors at work (and thus any speculation on my part above remains tenuous at best!). I guess the one consistent warning flag that maybe something is about to be amiss seems to be having a buff (be it armor set or friendship buff) showing on your Abilities page when it should no longer be applicable.

[Tomomi]

Nukenin wrote...

Yep, the second I fall in battle I'm hitting the reload before my Hawke's knees even bend, so I've not seen this specific variant of what the issue. Hopefully it's just another take on the same issue and all is made well in the next patch.

I can't seem to recreate right now (in Act III) what triggered the issue for me (back in Act II) when I last tested it so there's obviously other factors at work (and thus any speculation on my part above remains tenuous at best!). I guess the one consistent warning flag that maybe something is about to be amiss seems to be having a buff (be it armor set or friendship buff) showing on your Abilities page when it should no longer be applicable.

I am so glad I got a message from Luke Barret with the BioWare portrait.  He let me know that they are aware of this issue and already have a fix.  They even requested me sending them my .das file.  Looks like they seem to be paying more attention than I thought.  Good going!

Now back to the topic.  After much careful observation, and even unloading all the mods I have (by changing override's folder name), I did a lot of tests on various saves. It is actually not that easy to reproduce the bug.  Note, I ran through Deep Road with full set of Armor of the Fallen.  So I am stuck with the buff, regardless.

- At 1 point, I help Lt. Harley to fight off some bandits at the coast.  At this point, Hawke does not take any HP loss when fallen.  Notice there is no Isabella in there.  Hawke was wearing 1 piece of Fallen Armor.

- At the point where I found the bug, indeed it was Isabella in party, along with Armor of the Fallen buff.  At this point I totally got rid of the Armor of the Fallen, stacked in storage.

So it may be a combination of Armor of the Fallen and Isabella's friendly buff.  It is also to note that I have a mod to nullify Isabella's buff: the mod gives no buff to Hawke. This is why I was confident to bring Isabella with me.  However, I am also pretty sure this mod is not responsible, as stated earlier I removed all mod.  I hope for Bioware to give me some kind of update within a few days.

[xDaltonx]

I noticed the other day that I wasnt getting injured when my PC died in combat (either via res from anders or from end of action recovery). I didnt think much of it until i read here..

Note I dont have any mods and never ran isabella or sebasion in my party (well i did sebastion after the fact to get through his DLC content). Dont have either's friend bug.

Hopefully we can get this fixed.

[Tomomi]

You know, I am so paranoid now that I load/save about 10 times when I changed spec for Fenris last night. I thought he also started to lose stat. Seriously, at this point, anything is possible. I wish I could think of this when I put on the complete Armor of the Fallen set last week.

Seriously, now anything and everything has a good chance to cause some serious effect that you wouldn't find out before it is too late. This is actually more aggravating than the game blows up and crashes. At least you know you can stop playing then, not spending 20 hours into the game only to find out you get to redo everything, to say the least.

I started playing DA:O again. No matter what I did in that game, it would function as intended without having land mines like in DA2. Land mines, hmmm... I thought they would have not invented that then, but maybe I am wrong.