93 réponses à ce sujet

[camcon2100]

Wow is this the way we can approach our problems on this forum...........Hopefully people will catch on

[Rob Blake]

This thread is turning into quite the 'love-in' isn't it Thanks again for all the kind comments and feedback, you guys are great!

Regarding the ambient music in ME2, I was a little concerned about oversaturating the player with non-stop music throughout the entire game, so we decided to take 'score' music out of the hubs and instead focus on the main misions... which is where the narrative is really developing. Of course, you guys are right and this meant that we lost a little of the 'feel' that the ME1 hub music brought... I think it's all about finding balance between capturing the right atmosphere and the posibility of desensitising the audience from non-stop music.

The music plan for ME3 is going to be a lot more carefully planned out, Casey and I have spent a lot of time wrapping it into the main story and devising a musical narrative... it's going to be pretty amazing and much more cinematic, VERY exciting stuff! But that's all I can say about the music at this stage, sorry! As has been said, I'm having to bite my tongue for now!

Thanks everyone and enjoy your weekends!

R

[Fiery Phoenix]

The constant background music is definitely something we missed in ME2. In any event, I'm looking forward to whatever it is you're bringing to the table for ME3!

[Hunter-Wolf]

About ambient music .. some places do have music where it really makes sense ... "Afterlife" club for example ... i personally didn't miss constant ambient music in ME2 ... i think ambient noises are much more meaningful and important (insects/animals/wind/machinery/..etc etc) .. or music like in clubs and bars like i mentioned above.

[Zulu_DFA]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

The constant background music is definitely something we missed in ME2. In any event, I'm looking forward to whatever it is you're bringing to the table for ME3!

But you've been just told that:

Rob Blake wrote...

Casey and I have spent a lot of time
wrapping it into the main story and devising a musical narrative...
it's going to be pretty amazing and much more cinematic, VERY exciting
stuff!

In other words, Casey Hudson ordered it to be more "cinematic". Which means no going back to atmospheric ME1 ambient music on hub worlds and the Normandy, but even more pumping-up during action scenes.

That's why the fired Wall&Hullick from the project and hired that other guy.

[Dominus]

Sounds like a little bit of both worlds, sounds delicious > - proceeding with project love-in, in 3, 2...

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In other words, Casey Hudson ordered it to be more "cinematic". Which means no going back to atmospheric ME1 ambient music on hub worlds and the Normandy, but even more pumping-up during action scenes.

That's why the fired Wall&Hullick from the project and hired that other guy.

Dude they left on their own and show some repsect to Clint Mansell.

[Fiery Phoenix]

DominusVita wrote...

Sounds like a little bit of both worlds, sounds delicious > - proceeding with project love-in, in 3, 2...

Exactly.

[kohlmannj]

Hi Zulu_DFA,

So, a month ago, I would completely agree with you, but since then we've learned that it was essentially Jack Wall's decision not to score Mass Effect 3. I'm most thankful at this point that both Wall of Sound and Bioware, the two soundtrack developers, had a good enough working relationship to part ways without any hard feelings. There's every indication of that in my mind—both groups know how their biggest supporters feel about the soundtracks' high accomplishment.

More on-point, as BioWare explores a new, more grave story with Mass Effect 3, it seems appropriate to explore new musical territory for the series as well. Apart from reusing familiar melodies and themes, which can and should happen (please! :-D), it'd be boring at best and unfitting at worst if ME3 sounded just like ME or ME2.

For now, we simply have a sight-unseen perspective of this new game, and that requires a little bit of trust on our part. Rob Blake's posts in this thread alone are proof that the developers passionately care about the quality of the experience, even if we don't perfectly see eye-to-eye with them. It's also clear that the devs do learn from their past work and our feedback, making discussions like this all the more beneficial.

Further, the developers notice when we politely and carefully give them feedback without pouncing on them or "calling them out" on some subject (with very, very rare exception). That lets us frame our feedback in a positive light, which is another big takeaway from this thread, I think.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
But you've been just told that:

Rob Blake wrote...

Casey and I have spent a lot of time
wrapping it into the main story and devising a musical narrative...
it's going to be pretty amazing and much more cinematic, VERY exciting
stuff!

In other words, Casey Hudson ordered it to be more "cinematic". Which means no going back to atmospheric ME1 ambient music on hub worlds and the Normandy, but even more pumping-up during action scenes.

That's why the fired Wall&Hullick from the project and hired that other guy.

Modifié par kohlmannj, 02 avril 2011 - 06:52 .

[Dominus]

If we've learned one thing from BioWare games, it's that building strong relationships with those around you is mutually beneficial, and a highly preferred philosophy.

Modifié par DominusVita, 02 avril 2011 - 06:47 .

[kohlmannj]

Yes. "Software for Humans", anyone ? :-)

DominusVita wrote...

If we've learned one thing from BioWare games, it's that building strong relationships with those around you is mutually beneficial, and a highly reccomended choice.

Modifié par kohlmannj, 02 avril 2011 - 06:51 .

[AlbertoAquilani]

Rob Blake wrote...

This thread is turning into quite the 'love-in' isn't it Thanks again for all the kind comments and feedback, you guys are great!

Regarding the ambient music in ME2, I was a little concerned about oversaturating the player with non-stop music throughout the entire game, so we decided to take 'score' music out of the hubs and instead focus on the main misions... which is where the narrative is really developing. Of course, you guys are right and this meant that we lost a little of the 'feel' that the ME1 hub music brought... I think it's all about finding balance between capturing the right atmosphere and the posibility of desensitising the audience from non-stop music.

The music plan for ME3 is going to be a lot more carefully planned out, Casey and I have spent a lot of time wrapping it into the main story and devising a musical narrative... it's going to be pretty amazing and much more cinematic, VERY exciting stuff! But that's all I can say about the music at this stage, sorry! As has been said, I'm having to bite my tongue for now!

Thanks everyone and enjoy your weekends!

R

Thanks Rob. I'm very excited to see what you guys have planned. Audio / music is just as important to me as anything else, and you've done a great job of that in both games.

Example, Blade Runner wouldn't have had as much as impact on me without Vangelis' beautiful score.

Zulu - Jump to conclusions much? Jeez.

Modifié par AlbertoAquilani, 02 avril 2011 - 06:59 .

[Kane-Corr]

Rob Blake wrote...

This thread is turning into quite the 'love-in' isn't it Thanks again for all the kind comments and feedback, you guys are great!

Regarding the ambient music in ME2, I was a little concerned about oversaturating the player with non-stop music throughout the entire game, so we decided to take 'score' music out of the hubs and instead focus on the main misions... which is where the narrative is really developing. Of course, you guys are right and this meant that we lost a little of the 'feel' that the ME1 hub music brought... I think it's all about finding balance between capturing the right atmosphere and the posibility of desensitising the audience from non-stop music.

The music plan for ME3 is going to be a lot more carefully planned out, Casey and I have spent a lot of time wrapping it into the main story and devising a musical narrative... it's going to be pretty amazing and much more cinematic, VERY exciting stuff! But that's all I can say about the music at this stage, sorry! As has been said, I'm having to bite my tongue for now!

Thanks everyone and enjoy your weekends!

R

Sounds great! I personally understand where you guys were headed with this.

Sure, I would've loved that ambient atmosphere to be in ME2, BUT, it also would've been tooo recognizable and boring after awhile. SO, the whole cinematic feel definately makes sense. It's great to see more of what your whole mindset was behind this enhancement!

And, from my perspective....heading this route with Clint Mansell is an absolute must. I mean, if your going for the cinematic and epic feel...why not shoot for the best? I'm super excited for this...the music is a HUGE part of Mass Effect for me. So...thank you for an epic musical journey that you have provided thus far!

[kohlmannj]

After listening to some of the "missing tracks" (part 1, part 2, part 3) (i.e. music on on the official soundtrack release) from Mass Effect, ME's dynamic audio design involved adding or removing melody tracks. For example, C-Sec uses a simplified version of "The Wards" track on the OST, while the "real" wards music is yet another layer from the OST version.

Mass Effect 2, on the other hand, uses distinct looping sections and short, climactic riffs together in a dynamic sequence, which is really clever. This is also why the tracks on the ME2 OST are so long (5, 6, even 9 minutes)—they're not looping, they're chaining together discrete segments.

Again, it'd be awesome to see both of these approaches, especially since the first approach allows the composer to build equal-length layers of ambience for one area and the developer to blend the layers in and out based on location in the area (C-Sec vs. Lower Wards, Main Presidium vs. Lower Presidium, etc.).

[Update: Added links to "missing tracks" videos on YouTube.]

Modifié par kohlmannj, 02 avril 2011 - 08:12 .

[Hathur]

Outstanding.

Thank you kohlmannj for describing the various sound issues / glitches so intelligently and eloquently.. these little annoyances have always irked me somewhat as well but I never thought to put it to discussion in such an outstanding way. You sir / madam are a credit to the community here.

Also a big thank you to Rob for taking the time to let us know the fine audio team at BioWare is aware of the glitches / issues and have been working to do their best to address them for ME3.

As someone with very poor vision (partial blindness, among other visual problems), I tend to pay far more attention to audio in my games / movies than I do what is going on in the scene visually... I have great appreciation for all the fine "small" details that go into ambient sound, music and sound effects... even down to the sound a character makes when shifting around in spot, to hopping off a bench in a dialogue scene, etc... it's all done so brilliantly in the Mass Effect series... all the more reason it pains me when a bug / error interferes with the otherwise mastercrafted audio.

I'm truly grateful to know BioWare is going to give the audio aspect a fair shake too in ME3 

Modifié par Hathur, 02 avril 2011 - 08:14 .

[Zulu_DFA]

kohlmannj wrote...

Hi Zulu_DFA,

So, a month ago, I would completely agree with you, but since then we've learned that it was essentially Jack Wall's decision not to score Mass Effect 3.

What was the reason for that, I wonder?

kohlmannj wrote...

That lets us frame our feedback in a positive light, which is another big takeaway from this thread, I think.

All right, here is my feedback:

The sound options menu has these three scrollbars: Speech, SFX, and Music.

I think that the "Music" setting should affect only the game score proper, but not the music that Shepard can hear in-game, i.e. in bars or on his cabin jukebox. The in-universe music should be set by the same SFX scroller as the gunshots and explosions. Because it is kind of weird to walk into the Afterlife club and have to bring up the options menu to set the music to appropriate level, as I tend to turn it down to 10% during the combat sequences.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 avril 2011 - 08:24 .

[Dominus]

@Hathur, you must be a huge dead space fan then

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

What was the reason for that, I wonder?

Unless you have anything other insinuations to say, then you may as well keep your mouth shut.

You are offending employees specifically now, with names, and that's a new low for you.

Modifié par Phaedon, 02 avril 2011 - 08:49 .

[Tryphus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

All right, here is my feedback:

The sound options menu has these three scrollbars: Speech, SFX, and Music.

I think that the "Music" setting should affect only the game score proper, but not the music that Shepard can hear in-game, i.e. in bars or on his cabin jukebox. The in-universe music should be set by the same SFX scroller as the gunshots and explosions. Because it is kind of weird to walk into the Afterlife club and have to bring up the options menu to set the music to appropriate level, as I tend to turn it down to 10% during the combat sequences.

Oh! Rob if you're still watching, I'd like this as well, for many of my SciFi games I enjoy playing through normally the first time or two through, but then I like to leave just sound effects and speech on afterwards, it creates a neat atmosphere to mix things up on subsequent playthroughs!

^oh and ESPECIALLY if there's going to be space combat in this game! 

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Rob Blake wrote...

...you'll be pleased to know that the general audio flow is considerably improved in ME3. I'm personally spending a lot of time ensuring that these little glitches and jarring moments are eradicated... it's an ongoing battle and every time we add new content or a new audio system it brings with it new gremlins, but so far things are sounding considerably better!

...The music plan for ME3 is going to be a lot more carefully planned out, Casey and I have spent a lot of time wrapping it into the main story and devising a musical narrative... it's going to be pretty amazing and much more cinematic, VERY exciting stuff! But that's all I can say about the music at this stage, sorry! As has been said, I'm having to bite my tongue for now!

YYUUUSSSS!!


Great to hear, can't wait!

[Phaedon]

Rob Blake wrote...

This thread is turning into quite the 'love-in' isn't it Thanks again for all the kind comments and feedback, you guys are great!

Regarding the ambient music in ME2, I was a little concerned about oversaturating the player with non-stop music throughout the entire game, so we decided to take 'score' music out of the hubs and instead focus on the main misions... which is where the narrative is really developing. Of course, you guys are right and this meant that we lost a little of the 'feel' that the ME1 hub music brought... I think it's all about finding balance between capturing the right atmosphere and the posibility of desensitising the audience from non-stop music.

The music plan for ME3 is going to be a lot more carefully planned out, Casey and I have spent a lot of time wrapping it into the main story and devising a musical narrative... it's going to be pretty amazing and much more cinematic, VERY exciting stuff! But that's all I can say about the music at this stage, sorry! As has been said, I'm having to bite my tongue for now!

Thanks everyone and enjoy your weekends!

R

These are very good news, Rob. Thanks for posting them.
The OST for Arrival was very nice, but I had a feeling that it wasn't very carefully planned out.

[Foxhound2020]

Audio conversations in the middle of battle are cut off when you display the HUD as well. This agitated me to no end in Mass effect 2. I don't think that happen in ME1. Conversations should continue even after opening and leaving the HUD or pausing the game.

[kohlmannj]

The basis for my conjecture on the soundtrack debacle is what Jack Wall has publicly stated on this forum and at GDC 2011 (via Joystiq). I realize there's always a chance that Wall et al and BioWare don't wish to air their dirty laundry in public, but all the signals from Wall, Sam Hulick, and BioWare indicate that they've parted on a positive, pleasant, if regretful note.

Also, for the record, the audio suggestion of yours makes plenty of sense, good one.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

kohlmannj wrote...

Hi Zulu_DFA,

So, a month ago, I would completely agree with you, but since then we've learned that it was essentially Jack Wall's decision not to score Mass Effect 3.

What was the reason for that, I wonder?

[Zulu_DFA]

-comment removed-

Modifié par javierabegazo, 03 avril 2011 - 01:48 .

[kohlmannj]

Foxhound2020 wrote...

Audio conversations in the middle of battle are cut off when you display the HUD as well. This agitated me to no end in Mass effect 2. I don't think that happen in ME1. Conversations should continue even after opening and leaving the HUD or pausing the game.

Simple +1 on this, that's another tricky instance. (Rob, if you Command/Control+F "Rob Blake" and see this, thank you. :-))