151 réponses à ce sujet

[rolson00]

what i don't get is if you hate da2 why blame david gaider? i mean he didnt make the entire game on his todd
people are forgetting that he did bring us DA:O! how can people forget that!
ok i havn't got da2 (as you can probs see) but thats more to the fact that i judge games to saints row 2 and elder scrolls charecter creation  (& DA:O a little) now. what i found unbelievably sad was someone creating an account called "firedavid" how lame?(laugh out loud their poll was a joke) yes when he sometimes sinks to haters level i have to shake my head, but heck everyone has to have a jolly good aruement don't they? although when someone asked why leliana appeared in his da2 game when he had killed her david was a bit nasty, dunno why he just didnt say she survived her wounds (she was tortoured in her dlc in DA:O she is a tougth cookie after all)
 so come on every one lets all play nice we are all gamers here after all 
(sorry for any spelling mistakes but this isn't school)

EDIT
Hey guys chris wrote this inanother thread...if you want to view the whole tread here ya go
http://social.biowar...47611/3#6853921

[quote]Chris Priestly wrote...


I still love* you too.

The reason people here have been very... vocal is because we have the most passionate fans. When we do something you like, you let us know. When we do something you dislike, you let us know, frequently loudly.

When Fox news accused Mass Effect of being a game about sex, our fans jumped to our defense. Now that some (not all, but some) fans have problems with Dragon Age II, they are jumping to let us know. Not because they hate BioWare, actually the opposite, because they care. They want BioWare to make great games and are letting us know that they have problems with Dragon Age II. They want us to make DA2 or DLC or other future games better. Yes there are a few trolls or troublemakers who are only trying to cause trouble, but these are very few. Most people are posting to let us know they liked the game and what they liked or disliked the game and what they didn't like and they're doing it becuase they care about BioWare or Dragon Age.

Taking fan reaction (the bad and the good) and passing it on to the Dev team is a core part of my job. I would much rather have fan feedback than silence. Sure, I would rather have everyone love everything we did and do nothing but tell me how awesome I am, but lets be realistic here. Even if you take BioWare's most successful games ever (arguably Baldur's Gate II or Mass Effect 2) there will still be people who didn't like them, or elements of them they didn't like. It is like asking what is the best ice cream or pizza topping. Not everyone likes the same things.

So, yes, some people are complaining and have problems. And some people enjoyed Dragon Age II and haven't had problems. I'm still here, reading, taking the feedback (negative and positive) and making sure that their voices are heard. We do this becuase we care about what our fans and customers think almost as much as they care about what we do.


* Not a guarantee of actual love such as between a man and a really great cheeseburger.
[quote]

Modifié par rolson00, 30 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[17thknight]

The story has a lot of problems with it, and that's his department. He's one of the lead writers and designers, and the writing in this game is as lackluster as everything else.

[Warheadz]

[Image used as emote/commentary deleted as spam]

Seriously, that hurts my eyes and I can't really understand you.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 29 mars 2011 - 11:17 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Poorly written characters, terrible side quests, no real choices throughout the entire game, interesting concept of two factions fighting each other ruined...that's why.

[rolson00]

hmm have to disgree i think the characters were well done

[KalDurenik]

FellowerOfOdin  + horrible story flow, you wont care for your family, no goal in the game instead its lots of mini quests put together in a weak attempt to create a story.

Modifié par KalDurenik, 29 mars 2011 - 10:45 .

[Maria Caliban]

Attacking David Gaider has been a fan tradition since at least Neverwinter Nights. Not just for the writing, mind you. That would be too logical. I've seen people attack David for the marketing, the DRM, the areas, the various bugs people encounter, and other sundry things.

I've seen people convinced that David is responsible for the lack of a friendly fire toggle.

Then again, Jennifer is apparently responsible for the lack of proper isometric camera and the 'hack and slash' gameplay. I think it's a bit rude of those two to hog all the problems with the game. What about Mary, Sheryl, and Luke? I'm sure we could blame them for something.

[rolson00]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Attacking David Gaider has been a fan tradition since at least Neverwinter Nights. Not just for the writing, mind you. That would be too logical. I've seen people attack David for the marketing, the DRM, the areas, the various bugs people encounter, and other sundry things.

I've seen people convinced that David is responsible for the lack of a friendly fire toggle.

Then again, Jennifer is apparently responsible for the lack of proper isometric camera and the 'hack and slash' gameplay. I think it's a bit rude of those two to hog all the problems with the game. What about Mary, Sheryl, and Luke? I'm sure we could blame them for something.

heh yea its davids fault that i broke my arm in 1997 why the hell didnt he fly to the uk and save me

[berelinde]

Odd, but the most frequently repeated complaint I recall reading about the writing in the game is the restriction of opportunities for dialogue. If the writing were that bad, you would think people would not want more of it.

There are aspects of the dialogue system that I wish were handled differently, such as more relevent paraphrases, and I spent a lot of time thinking "Wait, that isn't what I meant to say," but I have no complaints about the quality of the writing. I managed to form strong opinions about all of my companions and about all of the primary NPCs in the game, so mission accomplished there. The main quests, companion quests, and secondary quests were interesting and easy enough to follow. The find-and-deliver side quests were definitely lackluster, but I like to think that they would have been fleshed out to a standard I would have found acceptable had the development not been so rushed. Perhaps I am deluding myself, or perhaps my imagination is too good, but there was definitely the potential for expansion there, as far as the side quests were concerned. Had my companions commented on the paragon's toe, for example, or had it been assigned through a job board, it would have been better, but this is an avenue not explored, not a thoroughly completed task done badly.

All of this is my opinion, though. We might not like the same books, either.

[fchopin]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Attacking David Gaider has been a fan tradition since at least Neverwinter Nights. Not just for the writing, mind you. That would be too logical. I've seen people attack David for the marketing, the DRM, the areas, the various bugs people encounter, and other sundry things.

I've seen people convinced that David is responsible for the lack of a friendly fire toggle.

Then again, Jennifer is apparently responsible for the lack of proper isometric camera and the 'hack and slash' gameplay. I think it's a bit rude of those two to hog all the problems with the game. What about Mary, Sheryl, and Luke? I'm sure we could blame them for something.

Whatever you say the plot was not implemented correctly for large parts of the game and there are also major plot holes in the game.
 
I do not find the companion romances interesting so avoid them in the game, first time for me in an RPG.
 
Mr Gaider has to accept some kind of responsibility as he is one of the lead writers

Modifié par fchopin, 29 mars 2011 - 11:36 .

[v_ware]

Some writing was awesome, all characters were fantastic.



But the overall plot was really...
MEH.

[Esbatty]

berelinde wrote...

Odd, but the most frequently repeated complaint I recall reading about the writing in the game is the restriction of opportunities for dialogue. If the writing were that bad, you would think people would not want more of it.

Yeah, thats hitting the nail on the head right there.

[xCirdanx]

berelinde wrote...
Odd, but the most frequently repeated complaint I recall reading about the writing in the game is the restriction of opportunities for dialogue. If the writing were that bad, you would think people would not want more of it..

Very well said.
I didn´t thought for one second that the writing was bad. David, Mary, Sheryl, etc did a good job. But when development is short (i´m sure there was a lot that got cut from the game) and your options are limited, there is only so much you can do.

As an example, i mostly didn´t care for my party members, not because they were badly written, they weren´t, but because i didn´t had the opportunity to stand there and talk with them and get them to know better.

I think the game would be better if they would have given the writers the chance to flash out the characters and world more and not focus on boring (imho) combat and animations.

[Warheadz]

simfamSP wrote...

17thknight wrote...

The story has a lot of problems with it, and that's his department. He's one of the lead writers and designers, and the writing in this game is as lackluster as everything else.

And why was the cause of that? Do people blame fingers without thought now? Are we the juvenile that falls and blames the kid beside instead of the dent in the floor? Perhaps...'tis  the internet. Why has David Gaider and his team failed to be at their standards? "Oh ofcourse it's his fault!" says the random forumite that posseses no trace of thought. "He must be fired! Down with Gaider and Laidlaw!" he continues. Why? A man who gave us Baldur's gate II, Dragon age: Origins, Knights of the Old Republic, and many other brilliant works. Does one not think about this? No the forumite does not. One year and four months. From November 2009 to Febuary 2011... That was the cycle of DA2. Think! Before you act.

Blah. My personal opinion is that we should just give hell to both EA and Bioware, not that they care about it.
EA probably rushed this out and that way affected the game, and Bioware was the one who made it. Both are at fault. And I don't want Gaider fired or **** like that, but you have to admit that there are many people around here who think that the story was a mess and the writing in general wasn't that good anyways.

[ToJKa1]

Because he responds to people and is not always too polite about it?

[Kreid]

it's just human nature to want to point fingers, specially when someone involved is well-know around the community.
I just hope that David Gaider (and Mike Laidlaw as well) don't take it bad and stop posting around here, after all it's the fans being fans.
I want to make it clear though, I hope they take note and read the feedback in the forums, I just hope they don't take the unjustified hate towards them as a personal attack from the community.

[Grey21]

Esbatty wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Odd, but the most frequently repeated complaint I recall reading about the writing in the game is the restriction of opportunities for dialogue. If the writing were that bad, you would think people would not want more of it.

Yeah, thats hitting the nail on the head right there.

Disagreed. Some people dislike the writting itself, for them the game simply is unplayable. Others dislike the limitation of choices in the dialogue wheel. These two opinions don't have to come from the same person. Yet you two are acting as if they are..

I would also like to point out that it isn't a real contradiction. You might not be a fan of the writting but you can still find it tolerable and keep playing. Only to find out that the writting isnt just average the options are also very limiting. These two combined could lead to an unplayable game for some.

I myself I'm not a big fan of the writting in this one. Especially the plotline or the lack off it is an issue for me. It feels like it is just a large group of quests put together. Some of them aweful others reasonable. And lackluster writting has been used to connect these things together.

Yet I'm not blaming Gaider for it. He didn't get a lot of content to work with as time and content made it very hard to write anything meaningful for this game. I would rather blame the executive producer and the entire lead team for deciding that this game would be about nothing interesting. For deciding that it was simply going to be an introduction to multible storylines of which none would be finished; we have three weak stories about Qunari, Mages and some Dwarven artifact of which none feel finished. Add the horrible copy/paste level designs and you got a game that is compleetly uninteresting to play.

Normally when the combat became repetitive or the level design was repetitive (KOTOR or ME1) then I could still look forward to a development in the storyline. I would find a reason to continue playing. DA2 has none, it is a failed product imo.

[Shockwave Pulsar]

The companions and characters saved the game for me, as they did in Origins, and I find Gaiders' the most interesting (Zevran, Alistair, Morrigan, Shale, Fenris, etc).
What was so great about the overall plot in Origins ? It's a generic 'chosen one gets chosen and saves the world from the evil Orcs  Darkspawn and Sauron Archdemon'. Had it not been for the companion - and NPC interaction I would have probably never played DA. At least they tried something different this time, DA II has problems, but story and characters are the smallest of them IMO.
I don't see how the writing is so inferior this time, and so far no one in this thread has given examples for that. Unless you tell the writers WHY you think the writing is bad, it's completely useless criticism for them.

[rolson00]

Balthamoss wrote...

The companions and characters saved the game for me, as they did in Origins, and I find Gaiders' the most interesting (Zevran, Alistair, Morrigan, Shale, Fenris, etc).
What was so great about the overall plot in Origins ? It's a generic 'chosen one gets chosen and saves the world from the evil Orcs  Darkspawn and Sauron Archdemon'. Had it not been for the companion - and NPC interaction I would have probably never played DA. At least they tried something different this time, DA II has problems, but story and characters are the smallest of them IMO.
I don't see how the writing is so inferior this time, and so far no one in this thread has given examples for that. Unless you tell the writers WHY you think the writing is bad, it's completely useless criticism for them.

erm thats what we're discussing here peolple blaming the writers for all the flaws

[dewayne31]

i think the writing was good. could of been better

[AkiKishi]

The theory behind the story is ok. It's how the story is presented. It's not easy to attribute blame without knowing all the details.

You have to overlook (or not notice) a lot of things for the story to hang together. That could be because of cuts made for time (Like KOTORII) or it could just be bad. There is no way to know in this case unless someone comes and says this was or was not how the game intended.

[EternalPink]

While i've not since i don't have the game (waiting for price reduction after all the mixed reviews) its most likely since he's the "visible" man in charge of the project.

Blaming faceless person above him that may or may not exist and may or may not have been the one making all the decisions is a lot harder

[Lotion Soronarr]

David is the Lead Writer...NOT the Lead designer.

If anyone is to blame, that would be Lidlaw and whoever decided it should be finished in such a shot amount of time.

[SuperBaggles1]

I don't understand how the dialogue is limited compared to the last game. The dialogue wheel works much better than a mute protagonist who stands around while everyone else chats it up. And the fact that the game recognizes your preferred attitude (friendly, joking, stern) and builds occasional automatic responses based on that is a pretty cool feature.

The overarching plot of the game is Hawke's story and how he rises to become the Champion. It's perfectly okay for a game to have a more politically driven plot than the typical end of the world scenario as long as there is still plenty of action. The choices are still there but they are just not as brow-beatingly obvious. There are more shades of gray which makes a lot of seemingly simple decisions somewhat agonizing.

I really fail to see how the writing suffers at all.

Modifié par SuperBaggles1, 29 mars 2011 - 01:00 .