203 réponses à ce sujet

[Eclipse_9990]

Ouch. 5/10.. In b4 someone still tries to defend bioware.

Edit: Damnit! Not fast enough.. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 29 mars 2011 - 01:54 .

[Dubya75]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

A negative review for the sake of it, time could be better spent doing something productive and positive.

So....a negative review is a waste of time but a positive review is productive? Right.

[_LordKain_]

Everyday. Everyday I see the same people complaining about the same thing. Pathetic. You didn't like the game. Boo hoo. Move on already. It's been 3 weeks.

I'm still waiting for a new legacy of kain game. Do you see me posting in edios complaining about it?

Bunch of babies.

[Dubya75]

_LordKain_ wrote...

Everyday. Everyday I see the same people complaining about the same thing. Pathetic. You didn't like the game. Boo hoo. Move on already. It's been 3 weeks.

I'm still waiting for a new legacy of kain game. Do you see me posting in edios complaining about it?

Bunch of babies.

Then what are you doing here whining about people's opinions like a baby? 

[edit] and just for the record, I do like DA2, it's just not half as good as it's supposed to be.

Modifié par Dubya75, 29 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[The Earl Of Bronze]

Dubya75 wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

A negative review for the sake of it, time could be better spent doing something productive and positive.

So....a negative review is a waste of time but a positive review is productive? Right.

A negative review for the sake of it. The goal was to write a negative review not review the game. If you do not like the game why are you here posting about the game?

[randallman]

_LordKain_ wrote...

Everyday. Everyday I see the same people complaining about the same thing. Pathetic. You didn't like the game. Boo hoo. Move on already. It's been 3 weeks.

I'm still waiting for a new legacy of kain game. Do you see me posting in edios complaining about it?

Bunch of babies.

Likewise, I see you fairly continuously on these threads complaining about the people who are complaining.  You like the game.  Go play it.  Move on already.

Example from 6 days ago: http://social.biowar...29164/1#6729541

_LordKain_ wrote...
And people like me were enjoying both.  Played Kings Quest on the Tandy
1000 while in school.  When home and played some ET & Raiders of the
Lost Ark on the Atari 2600.

Enjoy both or cry like a wittle baby.  Up to you...

--Randall

Modifié par randallman, 29 mars 2011 - 01:58 .

[Dubya75]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

A negative review for the sake of it, time could be better spent doing something productive and positive.

So....a negative review is a waste of time but a positive review is productive? Right.

A negative review for the sake of it. The goal was to write a negative review not review the game. If you do not like the game why are you here posting about the game?

I do like the game. I (we) are discussing our disappointment with a game that should have been a lot better.
This is a "discussion" forum after all, is it not?

Modifié par Dubya75, 29 mars 2011 - 01:58 .

[Deylar]

Rockpopple wrote...

If you don't consider it cherry-picking, then not for nothing, but you don't know what "cherry picking" means.

And if you believe the game was not good in your opinion, I'm not gonna argue with your opinion.

In my opinion, the game IS good. I can say this because I'm still playing it and enjoying it immensely.

Don't be mad I don't share your view, brah.

But I'm not mad.

I read all the reviews. Trust me. The ones I tend to agree with are usually independent sources. Not because they are independent sources, but because they focus on the main things that I was concerned with in this game.

I don't want to live in an echo chamber, but when you're getting extremely polarized views. You have extremes on both ends of the spectrum here. Its really hard to say what you want.

I can see the points of those who think this game is amazing. True, they did these technical things well.

I can see the points of those who think this game is not so great. True, they didn't execute their technical things well. IMO of course.

[_LordKain_]

Hmm, last time I posted was 2 days ago...yup, I regularly complain. /facepalm

[Waage25]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Its funny how the reviews we agree with seem more objective to us and less 'bought' than others...

The issue is a lot of so called "reviewers" game gave the game perfect and neer perfect scores.
Even if you like this game there is no way in hell it is a 10 out of 10 game.

[Rockpopple]

Deylar wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

If you don't consider it cherry-picking, then not for nothing, but you don't know what "cherry picking" means.

And if you believe the game was not good in your opinion, I'm not gonna argue with your opinion.

In my opinion, the game IS good. I can say this because I'm still playing it and enjoying it immensely.

Don't be mad I don't share your view, brah.

But I'm not mad.

I read all the reviews. Trust me. The ones I tend to agree with are usually independent sources. Not because they are independent sources, but because they focus on the main things that I was concerned with in this game.

I don't want to live in an echo chamber, but when you're getting extremely polarized views. You have extremes on both ends of the spectrum here. Its really hard to say what you want.

I can see the points of those who think this game is amazing. True, they did these technical things well.

I can see the points of those who think this game is not so great. True, they didn't execute their technical things well. IMO of course.

Well this is only one of the most reasonable things I've ever read on this forum. If posts were more like this from both sides more often, I really wouldn't have an issue. Granted, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting.....

[Dubya75]

Waage25 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Its funny how the reviews we agree with seem more objective to us and less 'bought' than others...

The issue is a lot of so called "reviewers" game gave the game perfect and neer perfect scores.
Even if you like this game there is no way in hell it is a 10 out of 10 game.

Exactly.

[Cutlass Jack]

Waage25 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Its funny how the reviews we agree with seem more objective to us and less 'bought' than others...

The issue is a lot of so called "reviewers" game gave the game perfect and neer perfect scores.
Even if you like this game there is no way in hell it is a 10 out of 10 game.

Oh, like the so called 'reviewer' who gave the game a 2/10 to attract more attention to his review. Gotchya.

[_LordKain_]

Waage25 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Its funny how the reviews we agree with seem more objective to us and less 'bought' than others...

The issue is a lot of so called "reviewers" game gave the game perfect and neer perfect scores.
Even if you like this game there is no way in hell it is a 10 out of 10 game.

I agree, ths game isn't a 10......it isn't a 5 either.  If reviewers could get over their DA:O fixation, they would see that DA2 while not a perfet game isn't that bad at all.

[_Aine_]

Auru wrote...

I think one of the biggest sticking points to most people is that this game feels like it could have been one of the all time greats.. but just wasn't given the time to let it turn out that way, so many shortcomings that cover up the parts which really could have been great

sad times :/

I think you nailed it here.  This makes some people so angry and disillusioned that they yell @ Bioware. Some other people who are disappointed feel they have to stick up for Bioware.  

But when you sai it "could" have been one of the all-time greats, I think this is true.  

I am on my third play-through ( though admittedly I am also still finishing my second, I just got carried away on a RP idea and got stuck with her lol)  and here are my honest thoughts about it:  

The first play through gives you the "experience" of the game.  This is what most people see in an over-all score or review.  I would have given it a 7 on my first play through, at best.  It *did* feel disjointed and just not epic enough.  What it did right it did well and what it failed at, seemed glaring and completely broke immersion (re-used maps and falling from sky enemies really was obvious and sad at this point).  That said, it still wasn't awful, and I eventually enjoyed it enough to give it another go. 

Now, it was the second playthrough that suddenly I was more interested in what I *missed* the first time. I turned down difficulty to casual so I could simply blast through combat that seemed too frequent and had me sighing " OMG again with the blasted enemies, all I want to do is head to get a freaking elfroot!"   I can't put my finger on exactly what was wrong with the combat, as in general I liked the responsiveness, almost liked the speed, but it was a bit fast to the point that tactics and strategy were unnecessary anyway. There was a huge variation between normal mob difficulty and the few difficult boss-type battles to the point of WTF!?  But I think it was just uninspired combat situations that did it " What happened on the way to the fair" sort of interuptions in a task rather than the purpose being a bit much to take. That could be personal opinion however.    

But, I also started to notice what was great.  Some of the writing, when you see it in context of what you missed the first time, more companion interaction with different choices etc. was really good.  Some of it was great and will unfortunately probably not get the credit it deserves because of other things that were lacking, I really do think because of time constraints that were made, I won't point fingers or even guess, since I have no basis to think I know.  

In short: with more unique ( or cleverly disguised ) areas, less waves, less obvious waves ( falling from sky ) and more MEANING ( or theatrical aspect, a la Varric ) for effect, this game would have at least been a solid 8.5 - 9.  I think it missed an overall purpose.  After all, we weren't actually the main character in this story, can't say more without spoilers though, so there you have it.  

Some of the pieces alone were good, fantastic even.  But it had cohesiveness issues.  It ended up feeling uninspired and I think it was because it felt rushed and the bits didn't gel together as nicely as they could have otherwise.  

More a lack of time than talent would be my guess.  Not Bioware's best, but not worthy of the outright scorn people are giving it either.  It is definitely a game that can be enjoyed, once you forgive it it's predecessor.

Modifié par shantisands, 29 mars 2011 - 02:41 .

[Obadiah]

Agree with most of the review, but Wired thought button smashing was an improvement?

[ToJKa1]

Good. Even though i find DA2 enjoyable, i still feel it's inferior to Origins in many ways (and as i shortly played the Dalish origin last night that impression was only reinforced), and as such i approve of overtly negative reviews in the hopes of Mr. Laidlaw seeing the light

[tomas819]

Dubya75 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Nice try. It's cherry picking, pure and simple.

You discount the large amount of 8s and 8.5s this game has gotten.
You look at the number of 9s and 9.5s this game as gotten and you think: bought!
You seek out low scores where you can find them because they fit your own view.

Just admit that you're cherry picking. Otherwise you'd be going around posting reviews all along the spectrum, but you don't.

If we're all honest brokers here, this will go a lot more smoothly.

Not quite, sport.
Initially I would not listen to any criticism towards DA2, I firmly believed it was a 10/10 game. But as you play it, and re-play it, you start to see things that don't quite sit right. Then you play some more and you notice more little things that don't sit right. 
The varnish wears off you see! Reviews with scores of 5/10 - 7/10 are the real objective ones, especially in light of everything Origins was and everything DA2 was promised to be but never became.

I am actually finding just the opposite -- that the game is better on replays. I think it's because I am noticing more details about how the story elements pull together and how there is a lot of foreshadowing taking place that I did not really appreciate the first time around. Quests and conversations that I thought (at first) were completely unrelated actually are part of a larger whole.

My own score would be higher, probably 8/10, but that's because I enjoyed playing DA2 a great deal (which is pretty much all I expect of a game). DA:O was better, but not that much better, imo.

DA2 offers basically one long and very involved origin story, that of Hawke, as opposed to the six -- Amell, Aeducan, etc. -- roles you could take on in the first game.

[randallman]

_LordKain_ wrote...

I agree, ths game isn't a 10......it isn't a 5 either.  If reviewers could get over their DA:O fixation, they would see that DA2 while not a perfet game isn't that bad at all.

Why would they not compare it to DA:O?  It's a sequel...  Even Bioware said it was so... 

--Randall

[The Earl Of Bronze]

Dubya75 wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

A negative review for the sake of it, time could be better spent doing something productive and positive.

So....a negative review is a waste of time but a positive review is productive? Right.

A negative review for the sake of it. The goal was to write a negative review not review the game. If you do not like the game why are you here posting about the game?

I do like the game. I (we) are discussing our disappointment with a game that should have been a lot better.
This is a "discussion" forum after all, is it not?

Would it not be easier to have a thread to group all of your suggestions for improvement in one place rather than the multiple threads making the same complaints? Making real suggestions rather than just listing what you don't like would be far more positive. 

The problemt with reviews, good and bad, they are just an opinion, subjective, like your favourite colour.

[_Aine_]

tomas819 wrote...

I am actually finding just the opposite -- that the game is better on replays. I think it's because I am noticing more details about how the story elements pull together and how there is a lot of foreshadowing taking place that I did not really appreciate the first time around. Quests and conversations that I thought (at first) were completely unrelated actually are part of a larger whole.

Ding ding!  I agree!!  

I said to my husband that it isn't fair because there is a great deal of good in the game, but you find it on the second go around as you compare and explore.  But, to be fair, as a game developer, you want people to like it on first go - it should stand alone - as you can't guarantee that people will even finish, let alone play it again. It was my love of DA:O that made me try it as a Take two! =)  So, I agree with you!   Some of the subtlety is missed in a single play.

[Deylar]

Rockpopple wrote...
Well this is only one of the most reasonable things I've ever read on this forum. If posts were more like this from both sides more often, I really wouldn't have an issue. Granted, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting.....

I'm not saying there weren't great things that they did in this game. I'm not saying those who love this game are horrible people and need to be burned. And I'm not saying the fanboys are the greatest and say everything right.

Both sides need to communicate affectively. And right now both sides are only throw fireballs at one another. 

I think for the future of gaming. Gaming communities need to come together. Not split apart.

Modifié par Deylar, 29 mars 2011 - 02:10 .

[Khayness]

This reviewer doesn't like change!

He is obviously a troll.

[shaneho78]

Bathead wrote...

To be fair, I've seen the same cherry-picking from those who liked the game too, but that's usually in response to negative cherry-picking. It's either - positive reviews have been bought and paid for by EA, or it's - negative reviews are from a bunch of trolls who have been influenced by 4chan.
Both are silly.

Exactly. This sort of thinking is deeply rooted in human nature and unless we police ourselves rigourously, we fall often fall prey to confirmation bias. Happens to parties on both sides of any debate. That's why some debates can go on forever. Almost all of us (at a certain point in time) will tend to regard our own opinion as objective fact and possess an insecure/defensive need to be proven right.


"Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true. As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way."

"So strong is our tendency to favour preexisting beliefs that we sometimes retain them even after the evidence for them has been completely discredited."

"Almost every generalization, however inaccurate has some confirming instances. If our tendency is to look for confirming instances, we will always be able to find them."

"If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. " ~Bertrand Russell

http://en.wikipedia....nfirmation_bias

http://en.wikipedia....tive_dissonance

Modifié par shaneho78, 29 mars 2011 - 02:24 .

[Dubya75]

Khayness wrote...

This reviewer doesn't like change!

He is obviously a troll.

Oh great, here we go again with the troll accusations...