208 réponses à ce sujet

[Deadmac]

BobSmith101 wrote...
While games are on the shelves the retailer is not ordering replacements. Even if they do a "fire sale" to shift stock they won't order in great numbers afterwards.

Case in point not long ago a local place had 26 "left over copies" of Dead Space 2. They halved the price and sold most of them. But they never ordered more.

How about "Diablo II"? Its been on the market since 1999, and the installation and executable programs get updated every other year. Talk about a long run for a game.

[InvaderErl]

cheesewhiz wrote...



For comparison, DA:O lifetime sales are over 3,000,000 for combined xbox 360 and PS3 (no data on PC sales).  

Your info is wrong.

From the press release back in Feb:


"BioWare’s Dragon Age: Origins Reaches Triple Platinum Sales



Legendary Studio’s Newest Title Wins over 30 Industry Awards, Ships Over3 Million Units Becoming BioWare’s Sixth Consecutive Blockbuster Franchise"


They SHIPPED 3 million units.

Shipped = sold to retailers not sold to customers.

Additionally nowhere was it said that these were console only sales.

People really just need to wait for the NPD numbers for March to be released before we go making announcements one way or another.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 mars 2011 - 07:03 .

[randName]

I kind of hope DA2 tanks, and we won't have to see the broken story continue into DA3; that said I like BW, and would hope that they do well, so I'm horribly conflicted.

Or lets say the ideal for me would be that the team that did DA2 gets to stay on and they change projects to something else, something I don't care about and they can work their "magic" instead of a continued ruination of DA.

[randName]

InvaderErl wrote...

cheesewhiz wrote...



For comparison, DA:O lifetime sales are over 3,000,000 for combined xbox 360 and PS3 (no data on PC sales).  

Your info is wrong.

From the press release back in Feb:


"BioWare’s Dragon Age: Origins Reaches Triple Platinum Sales



Legendary Studio’s Newest Title Wins over 30 Industry Awards, Ships Over3 Million Units Becoming BioWare’s Sixth Consecutive Blockbuster Franchise"


They SHIPPED 3 million units.

Shipped = sold to retailers not sold to customers.

Additionally nowhere was it said that these were console only sales.

People really just need to wait for the NPD numbers for March to be released before we go making announcements one way or another.

Without PC sales I think its up to 2.41, if sites like VGchartz are accurate.

[Deadmac]

LTD wrote... Counting the eggs helps a great deal though. Most people in the industry seem to agree AAA games make significant amount (70%-80%) of total income during the first few weeks following release.

I cannot argue with that logic. If we compare games to how the movie industry works, the longer a move stays in the theater - the audience starts to saturate over a period of time. I will 'assume' that is similar to how game sales are approached; however, the shelf life of a game is longer than six months to a year. Even though a one year old game is not selling heavily on day 90, revenue is still be generated on some level. How that fits into the equation is beyond me.

Modifié par Deadmac, 29 mars 2011 - 07:08 .

[InvaderErl]

VgChartz is unfortunately not reliable. Some of their info is correct when they have sources like NPD to draw from but where they get a lot of their figures I don't know.

[byzantine horse]

BobSmith101 wrote...
There comes a point where you can't escape from reality anymore no matter how much you wish that were not the case.

And again I ask you, what reality? I don't need to escape anything, I am well aware of my own opinions and don't need any help solidifying them thank you very much. Stop stating that your opinion is a global fact. Does the game have flaws? Yes. Do I deny those flaws? No. Do you continue to tell me how I refuse to "accept reality" and continue to "escape reality" because my opinion does not tangent yours? Yes, you do. Again, I don't deny any bugs, any flaws or any shortcomings of the game. But the way I choose to interpet and value these are mine alone, not yours, mine. Stop telling me that I am wrong because I don't think the same way as you do.

[randName]

InvaderErl wrote...

VgChartz is unfortunately not reliable. Some of their info is correct when they have sources like NPD to draw from but where they get a lot of their figures I don't know.

I'd guess its close on DA:O if EA shipped 3M and VGChartz are at 2.41 without PC sales.

But yes, once they are off, and they are, its hard to trust anything from the site.

Either way unless they have shipped more copies, we know at least that there isn't 3M hard copies sold (DD could tip it over on the other hand, and heh, I own two copies of DA:O).

Publishers on the other hand often strut figures that are equaly misleading, as in the case of insinuating that shipped equals sold copies.

Modifié par randName, 29 mars 2011 - 07:11 .

[Ostagar2011]

Volourn wrote...

You better read what he says agaian. And, read it very closely. Then one more time so you cana ctually understand.

Nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE in that does he claim that if DA2 doesn't sell 10mil copies it is a fialure.

I thought you'd be man enough to admit you were wrong. I overestimated you. You accused me of not knowing what their sales target is and of making up random numbers. I gave you a link where I showed you that I do know what their target is, and that my post did not just have "random numbers".

And you try to wriggle out by saying that I somehow equated <10 million = fail. Well read my post carefully - I said no such thing - don't try to twist my words into that.

[Deadmac]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Nice rant, but DA is outselling DA2 in some places. How does that work exactly?

Argument could be made that "Dragon Age II" brought on new fans, and they are the ones responsible for the latest up tick in "Dragon Age: Origins" sales. We just do not know.

Also, can you possibly give us a source to look at?

[InvaderErl]

randName wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

VgChartz is unfortunately not reliable. Some of their info is correct when they have sources like NPD to draw from but where they get a lot of their figures I don't know.

I'd guess its close on DA:O if EA shipped 3M and VGChartz are at 2.41 without PC sales.

Its hard to say, I'll be honest and admit I don't know if its usual for companies to overship or not and even then console sales weren't GREAT for Origins from what I could see so, so how much of that actually got sold I've no idea. In any case to sell something approaching 3 million units they'd have heavily be leaning on PC sales which I imagine must have been a great deal stronger considering the game itself and the fact that a sequel got greenlit at all. I'd rather not speculate further without some hard info either way.

randName wrote...
But yes, once they are off, and they are, its hard to trust anything from the site.

Either way unless they have shipped more copies, we know at least that there isn't 3M hard copies sold (DD could tip it over on the other hand, and heh, I own two copies of DA:O).

My copy of Origins is DD as well and obviously wouldn't have shown up in a units sold figure, so yeah its hard to tell without the company actually coming out and saying we sold this many.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[Ostagar2011]

InvaderErl wrote...

Your info is wrong.

From the press release back in Feb:


"BioWare’s Dragon Age: Origins Reaches Triple Platinum Sales



Legendary Studio’s Newest Title Wins over 30 Industry Awards, Ships Over3 Million Units Becoming BioWare’s Sixth Consecutive Blockbuster Franchise"


They SHIPPED 3 million units.

Shipped = sold to retailers not sold to customers.

Additionally nowhere was it said that these were console only sales.

People really just need to wait for the NPD numbers for March to be released before we go making announcements one way or another.

Here is an EA press release where they tell their investors that DAO sold 3.2 million. That was in February, so that figure is probably calculated as of mid Jan, and vgchartz clearly show that DAO continued to sell strongly many months after that. Then there was Awakening. Then there was the collector's editions which (at least in all the shops in my city - was like at number #3 or #4 for at least a couple of weeks (it's still in the top 20 today). So my personal guess - around 4m sold now.

[InvaderErl]

Ostagar2011 wrote...


Here is an EA press release where they tell their investors that DAO sold 3.2 million. That was in February, so that figure is probably calculated as of mid Jan, and vgchartz clearly show that DAO continued to sell strongly many months after that. Then there was Awakening. Then there was the collector's editions which (at least in all the shops in my city - was like at number #3 or #4 for at least a couple of weeks (it's still in the top 20 today). So my personal guess - around 4m sold now.

If you'll notice I drew from the same source, but since you have it:

Title of article:

BioWare's Dragon Age: Origins Reaches Triple Platinum Sales

Legendary Studio's Newest Title Wins over 30 Industry Awards, Ships Over 3 Million Units Becoming BioWare's Sixth Consecutive Blockbuster Franchise

It says "ships" as opposed to 'sold' right there in the title.

Additionally, from the article:

"Origins has sold-in over 3.2 million* units worldwide."


Definition of sell-in:

sell invb (adverb)1. (Business / Commerce) (tr) to sell (new products) to a retail outlet to be sold to the public

http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/sell in

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 mars 2011 - 07:31 .

[cheesewhiz]

Volourn wrote...

You are making yup numbers again. It's really embarassing. But, yeah, next youa re gonna claim DA sold 20million copies. l0lz

Was that directed to me? 

If it was, that was the first time I've posted here. So I have no idea where you are getting the again part. 

And I am not making numbers up. You need to check your reading skills. Those numbers are from VG chartz.

Feel free to check their website. I was just being kind enough to compile and post here. 

Seems like you are the one embarassing yourself.

[0x30A88]

Being number 15 in a best-seller list -- isn't that an indicator that it sells rather well?

It's in fact, the only RPG on there...

[Ostagar2011]

InvaderErl wrote...

"Origins has sold-in over 3.2 million* units worldwide."


Definition of sell-in:

sell invb (adverb)1. (Business / Commerce) (tr) to sell (new products) to a retail outlet to be sold to the public

http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/sell in

Oops! - sorry - that' what happens when you try to post on 5 active forums in the same 20 minutes.

So your argument is that some copies remain on shelves gathering dust or that unsold copies will not in the end count as "sales" because EA takes the stock risk (ie buys back unsold copies -- or the copies are sold by the retailer under a commissionaire structure).

In any event, I doubt that there would be a statistically significant variance between sold and units sold to retailer. And.... can't help wondering if it even matters, so long as we benchmark other 'successful' or 'unsuccessful' titles using the same methodology for counting.

Modifié par Ostagar2011, 29 mars 2011 - 07:46 .

[0x30A88]

nopho wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

Volourn wrote...

This is silly. Signs are indicating that DA2 iss elling a smuch as DA1 despite having much less time, money, and effort put into it. It is very likely a financial success.


LMAO

You know, the only reason for that is the success of Origins.

please do not feed the troll

A internet troll is one that states something in order to brew up a flame war, like saying "god is not real" on a christian internet discussion of any sort.

He, however, was merely stating a fact.

[cheesewhiz]

InvaderErl wrote...

cheesewhiz wrote...



For comparison, DA:O lifetime sales are over 3,000,000 for combined xbox 360 and PS3 (no data on PC sales).  

Your info is wrong.

From the press release back in Feb:


"BioWare’s Dragon Age: Origins Reaches Triple Platinum Sales



Legendary Studio’s Newest Title Wins over 30 Industry Awards, Ships Over3 Million Units Becoming BioWare’s Sixth Consecutive Blockbuster Franchise"


They SHIPPED 3 million units.

Shipped = sold to retailers not sold to customers.

Additionally nowhere was it said that these were console only sales.

People really just need to wait for the NPD numbers for March to be released before we go making announcements one way or another.

I used VG chartz for the source. So it's their numbers, not mine. Yes, they can be inaccurate, but those numbers look pretty reasonable to me. Besides, when looking at old releases, the data tends to be more accurate.

But using your press release, I don't see what the difference is. I posted over 3 million, excluding PC sales. I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were at least 500k PC sales. 

Get over the shipped vs sold thing. This isn't console sales where Best Buy will warehouse hardware for months. DA:O has been out and we are playing the sequel. Retailers have moved through most of their inventory of DA:O. Even if there was a stockpile at one time, I doubt there is now. It's an old game, they aren't ordering 50 copies or allowing EA to stuff 50 copies on them. 

The vast majority of those "shipped" units have been sold by now. So I have no doubt that, with PC sales, DA:O SOLD over 3 million units. 

The point is, DA:O sold well. It was a blockbuster. And DA2, from what it looks like, is going to be at best a modest success. And I don't see DA2 coming anywhere near DA:O numbers. Again, what that means to EA, I have no idea. I don't work for them and I have no idea what their internal targets were. 

Modifié par cheesewhiz, 29 mars 2011 - 07:52 .

[InvaderErl]

Ostagar2011 wrote...


Oops! - sorry - that' what happens when you try to post on 5 active forums in the same 20 minutes.

So your argument is that some copies remain on shelves gathering dust or that unsold copies will not in the end count as "sales" because EA takes the stock risk (ie buys back unsold copies -- or the copies are sold by the retailer under a commissionaire structure).

Not at all, I'm not making any claim either way as to units actually sold to customers. I was merely clearing up the confusion over that particular issue because I so often see the 3 million figure thrown out as units sold when it was referring to units shipped. Anything past that, I don't make any claim of knowing.

cheesewhiz wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

cheesewhiz wrote...



For comparison, DA:O lifetime sales are over 3,000,000 for combined xbox 360 and PS3 (no data on PC sales).  

Your info is wrong.

From the press release back in Feb:


"BioWare’s Dragon Age: Origins Reaches Triple Platinum Sales



Legendary Studio’s Newest Title Wins over 30 Industry Awards, Ships Over3 Million Units Becoming BioWare’s Sixth Consecutive Blockbuster Franchise"


They SHIPPED 3 million units.

Shipped = sold to retailers not sold to customers.

Additionally nowhere was it said that these were console only sales.

People
really just need to wait for the NPD numbers for March to be released
before we go making announcements one way or another.

I
used VG chartz for the source. So it's their numbers, not mine. Yes,
they can be inaccurate, but those numbers look pretty reasonable to me.
Besides, when looking at old releases, the data tends to be more
accurate.

Based on what? Their guesses?

Trying to pass of educated guesses as hard info is foolhardy and disingenious - as I said wait for the NPD numbers and you will have ACTUAL data to work with.

VgChartz is notoriously inaccurate when they don't have NPD numbers to base their own guesses off. Right now we don't have NPD figures.

cheesewhiz wrote...
But using your press release, I don't see what the difference is. I posted over 3 million, excluding PC sales. I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were at least 500k PC sales.

You can ASSUME all you like, but you should still try to use hard data from respectable sites when you're posting figures.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 mars 2011 - 07:57 .

[Ostagar2011]

cheesewhiz wrote...

The point is, DA:O sold well. It was a blockbuster. And DA2, from what it looks like, is going to be at best a modest success. And I don't see DA2 coming anywhere near DA:O numbers. Again, what that means to EA, I have no idea. I don't work for them and I have no idea what their internal targets were. 

If you read my earlier post, we've come to a figure of 3.2m from an EA investor press release, but it's from mid Jan and we're not sure what the counting methodology is regarding unsold units. So my guess is 4m.

EA will never take 2m of DA2 sales to mean - we should return to making red blooded RPGs for the fans we have. This has been ruled out. DA3 will either go completely hack n slash or be scrapped. EA will not settle for 3.x million or even 4.x million when Call of Duty gets 7 million in its first week. Dragon Age will keep gutting the "unwelcoming" cerebral/tactical/moral/min-max elements until the twitch reflex crowd don't feel it's nerdy or needlessly complicated. This (pessimistic) view is shared by Brent Knowles (lead design DAO) - sorry no link - it was in an answer to a question posted on his blog (which has been inundated in recent weeks).

[Everwarden]

CaimDark wrote...

What is it with DA fans hoping DA2 bombs because the game disappointed? Sure, Bioware rushed the sequel and it shows, but I like DA, and I don't want the series to disappear, which is exactly what will happen if it bombs. Maybe it's a good think NPD has forbidden anyone from sharing their sales data with the media. With luck, it will help to to tone down the "COD sold 20 million, game X sold "only" 3 million in 2 months, game X is an epic failure!!!" mentality.

Well, I hope it bombs not because I want Bioware to die, but because I want to see a good Dragon Age 3.

Though seeing those Mike Laidlaw interviews make me think that there is just no way that a decent DA3 is going to happen. He just doesn't get why customers are complaining.

[Melca36]

LightningSamus wrote...

Most Americans love FPS, all they want to do is shoot so why be so surprised that and FPS is selling more, they always do.

Excuse me but please DO NOT stereotype all Americans.    Not all of us are into games likes that.

[Xrissie]

If you add up all three consoles DA2 has already sold around a million, not counting the digital downloads.

Just thought I'd put it out there.

[Altima Darkspells]

Melca36 wrote...

LightningSamus wrote...

Most Americans love FPS, all they want to do is shoot so why be so surprised that and FPS is selling more, they always do.

Excuse me but please DO NOT stereotype all Americans.    Not all of us are into games likes that.

I'm not sure.  Reading the originally quoted post kinda makes me wanna shoot someone!

[88mphSlayer]

LightningSamus wrote...

Most Americans love FPS, all they want to do is shoot so why be so surprised that and FPS is selling more, they always do.

as opposed to playing nothing but farmville/cityville, call of duty or angry birds... crysis 2 is a good thing