208 réponses à ce sujet

[cheesewhiz]

InvaderErl wrote...

Based on what? Their guesses?

Trying to pass of educated guesses as hard info is foolhardy and disingenious - as I said wait for the NPD numbers and you will have ACTUAL data to work with.

VgChartz is notoriously inaccurate when they don't have NPD numbers to base their own guesses off. Right now we don't have NPD figures.

You can ASSUME all you like, but you should still try to use hard data from respectable sites when you're posting figures.

Excuse me, but that data is over a year old. It is for DA:O, NOT DA2. 

Feel free to look up NPD data. I'm sure its out there somewhere. You don't even have to wait. I really don't care about the actual down to the unit numbers. I don't work for EA or Bioware and I own no EA stock. So I could care less what the actual numbers are, or if I am off by 100k. 

On top of that, it appears to be fairly corroborated by EA themselves, using the press release you linked to. You posted the press release, not me. And unless you were faking it, that press release came from EA. NOT VGchartz. Are you suggesting that EA is a worse source than NPD?

You can nit pick the numbers all you want. And you can dispute VG chartz numbers for DA2 till the cows come home. Break into EA and steal the spreadsheet data. I don't care. Either way, I seriously doubt that VG chartz is off by 1million or so units, which is what it would have to be for DA2 to come close to DA:O numbers. 

Since this seems to need repeating, I'll say it again. All I can tell is that DA2 is NOT selling as well as DA:O. That is all. Use any granular metric you want that makes you happy. But everything seems to point to that conclusion. Believe me, I'm sure you can find some data somewhere that would make you happy. But honestly, I could care less.  

Modifié par cheesewhiz, 30 mars 2011 - 12:03 .

[randallman]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

That's because people mistakenly believe that if they whine hard enough, BioWare will stop making mainstream teenage action garbage and go back to serious, tactical RPGs. This is a pipe dream. DA3 will - at best - see one or two of Origin's elements make a token comeback. At worst, there will be no DA3. People fail to understand this. They also hold BioWare to a much higher standard than say, Bethesda, because Bethesda long ago abandoned all pretences at being a developer of core RPGs.

I'd rather there be no DA3 than DA2 + 1...

--Randall

[Volourn]

" Either way, I seriously doubt that VG chartz is off by 1million or so units, which is what it would have to be for DA2 to come close to DA:O numbers. "

This is blatantly false. If you go by VGChartz's own numbers the two games are neck and neck after two weeks. So, your own 'source' disproves your theory.

[randallman]

Volourn wrote...

"Dragon Age 2 ranked very low on Amazon for weeks now."

define 'for week's please because last i checked DA2 has been out for 3 weeks. WOW.

Plus, i'm sure most people don't buy new games off Amazon.


"Dragon Age 2 shown to be selling very poorly on VGchartz."

Must explain why it occuiped 3 of the top 6 spost in the VGcharts. And, why according tio them it had sold as much as DA1 did.

Of course, as above stated, vgchartz, is sueless garbage. It could have claimed DA2 sold 10mil copies or 1 copy and it would still be garbage.

Man Volourn, you're still martyring yourself for this game.  Hats off to you for your continued vigilance... 

Or NOT 

Frankly. Im enjoying watching this ''game'' get raked over the proverbial coals over and over again on the forums.

Why exactly do you spend your time here? :-)

--Randall

Modifié par randallman, 30 mars 2011 - 12:13 .

[Volourn]

The same reason you do. It's entertaining to see NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, and DA revisited.

It's funny that you assume that i think DA2 is way better than DA1. i don't. they're equal with the same basic weaknesses and strengths. It's very much the sequel.

L0L I hate the fact that you regen mana and helath after combat IN DA2 L0L

NEWSFLASH: It was true in DA1.

[randallman]

Volourn wrote...

The same reason you do. It's entertaining to see NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, and DA revisited.

It's funny that you assume that i think DA2 is way better than DA1. i don't. they're equal with the same basic weaknesses and strengths. It's very much the sequel.

L0L I hate the fact that you regen mana and helath after combat IN DA2 L0L

NEWSFLASH: It was true in DA1.

I agree from both angles.  I definitely preferred the D&D-style 'spells per day' approach.  Wizards/Clerics/Paladins/etc... being 'pre memorizerd' and sorcerors (and derivatives) being 'spells per level per day' with a more limited selection of spells.

EDIT - but then again, translated to a cRPG it just meant more resting...  in nonsensical places and more frequently than any PnP DM worth his salt would allow.

Modifié par randallman, 30 mars 2011 - 12:22 .

[Volourn]

I never rested in dungeons playing the Bg series, NWN, or any other D7D game that was reasonabky well made. All it means is you can't do what you do in the DA series - unload your best spells/abilities on even the weakest foes.

BG; I see a goblin. I kill it with my sword.

DA; I see a wolf, I insta kill spell on it. Regen after battle.

[Boiny Bunny]

Personally, I would say it's far too early to start talking about the game selling 'badly'. What we do know is that sales are nowhere near as impressive as Mass Effect 2's were in the first week - which is probably where they were aiming with the re-design.

And since Origins is Bioware's most successful game by a longshot (and one of the highest critically recieved as well, while DA2 is one of the poorest), I doubt DA2 sales will be as high as DA:O in the long term.

Bioware games usually sell a reasonable chunk in the first few weeks, then slowly and steadily build up to a massive number as word of mouth spreads. In DA2 it's quite the opposite. All the sales are coming in now due to pre-orders and people thinking it's as good as Origins, but over time, word of mouth will be letting Bioware down in an absolute sense.

[neppakyo]

I think the first week or two sales were because of pre-orders, and first day buys because of DA:O's huge success and popularity.

Because of DA:O I bought DA2 first day, and I got half a game with no ending. (and shut up about DLC's extending the story, or wait for DA3. I want a logical conclusion that makes sense, not a bulls.hit cop out ending) and no replay value at all for me.

[aphelion002]

I don't understand why people are arguing over this. If the game sells well, we will know in due course as EA will release numbers. If it doesn't, we will know one way or another down the line too. Nerds debating over a forum do not change this one bit.

[Tommy6860]

Volourn wrote...

" Either way, I seriously doubt that VG chartz is off by 1million or so units, which is what it would have to be for DA2 to come close to DA:O numbers. "

This is blatantly false. If you go by VGChartz's own numbers the two games are neck and neck after two weeks. So, your own 'source' disproves your theory.

Except if you look at the week two numbers betweeen Origins and DA2, DA2 had a much larger fall-off for sales than did Origins did. If, and it appears it will happen, DA2 sells under 100k for week 3 numbers, then it will not do as well, as Origins kept selling over 100k for 8 weeks. The 8th week, for some reason, saw Origin's biggest sales after the initial release.

[TcheQ]

lol well if 700k sales is bad, what is good?

http://www.gamespot....id=m-1-58548218
 
http://en.wikipedia....ing_video_games

[InvaderErl]

cheesewhiz wrote...

Feel free to look up NPD data. I'm sure its out there somewhere. You don't even have to wait. I really don't care about the actual down to the unit numbers. I don't work for EA or Bioware and I own no EA stock. So I could care less what the actual numbers are, or if I am off by 100k. 

On top of that, it appears to be fairly corroborated by EA themselves, using the press release you linked to. You posted the press release, not me. And unless you were faking it, that press release came from EA. NOT VGchartz. Are you suggesting that EA is a worse source than NPD?

There is no NPD data for Origins after the first month due to it falling out of the top 20 console sales charts after the first month.

The press release as I pointed out refers to units shipped not sold, which is what presumably VgChartz is giving data out for regarding Origins.

There is no source out there that gives out the numbers VgChartz lists, no source anywhere. Vg chartz has a long history of making up numbers.

cheesewhiz wrote...
You can nit pick the numbers all you want. And you can dispute VG chartz numbers for DA2 till the cows come home. Break into EA and steal the spreadsheet data. I don't care. Either way, I seriously doubt that VG chartz is off by 1million or so units, which is what it would have to be for DA2 to come close to DA:O numbers.

They have quite a history of being off.

http://www.wired.com...hy-we-dont-ref/

Not to mention Wiki won't let you use VgChartz as a source... WIKI...

From a freaking official at Microsoft:

http://n4g.com/news/...ort-via-twitter

cheesewhiz wrote...
Since this seems to need repeating, I'll say it again. All I can tell is that DA2 is NOT selling as well as DA:O. That is all. Use any granular metric you want that makes you happy. But everything seems to point to that conclusion. Believe me, I'm sure you can find some data somewhere that would make you happy. But honestly, I could care less.  

You seem to think this is where my concern is.

Its not, I think Origins is far far better than DA2 and I have no idea at this time how DA2's sales figures look in comparison to Origins nor do I make any claim to have an idea how the numbers will turn out. I don't have the data and am not so presumptious to imagine that I do before the actual numbers are posted. So please don't presume you know where I am coming from.

Posting figures from VgChartz with the implication that this is HARD DATA when it is in fact by all accounts guess work is completely backwards when those numbers do no exist anywhere else and it is disingenious to continue doing so when the inaccuracy of VgChartz has been pointed out time and time again.

Rather, my ONLY argument was that people should wait for NPD to release figures. You seem to feel that anything that challenges the validity of a notoriously iffy site is "taking the other side". No, I'm sorry it doesn't work that way - some of us simply would like some ACTUAL data behind the numbers that people are throwing around. You want actual data to present in support of your argument then get the NPD data that is easily accessible, use the press release by all means but its wrong to try and pass off VgChartz info off simply because its easy and convenient. Let's not be lazy and take the quick road here.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 30 mars 2011 - 03:06 .

[Gatt9]

TcheQ wrote...

lol well if 700k sales is bad, what is good?

http://www.gamespot....id=m-1-58548218
 
http://en.wikipedia....ing_video_games

Today?

For a small company 1,000,000 units is a fairly decent figure.  For a company on the order of EA,  you're looking at 2-3 million for it to be acceptable and more to be good.

In general,  somewhere between 1-2 million is the break even point for a game today,  depending on some other factors like "Was an engine reused" and "How did the DLC sell"?

700k would be considered abyssmal for an EA product.  It's likely the game will break even,  but it won't be "Good sales".

A good point of reference would be your second link.  ME sold 2,000,000 and ME2 sold 1.6 million. 

Keep in mind though,  with that list,  things are different today.  In Diablo/Diablo 2/Baldur's Gate timeframe,  100,000 was break even (It was actually JE Sawyer who offered that information).  So BG was actually a blockbuster,  in contrast to the rest of Bioware's products that did just "good".

[InvaderErl]

Gatt9 wrote...


A good point of reference would be your second link.  ME sold 2,000,000 and ME2 sold 1.6 million. 

Source, preferably something NOT VgChartz,

Oh and I know you'll post this.

http://www.gamespot....ws/6184291.html

ME1's 1.6 figure.

Which is clearly a units shipped figure since the NPD figures for units sold during the first two months are only HALF of that figure, nevermind it still isn't your 2 million figure.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 30 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[DragonAddict]

If Bioware had the time to properly program DA2, not 18 months, DA2 would of been way better. But EA gave them a time constraint, they did their best and delivered not a bad product. DA2 wasn't great like DAO but it wasn't bad either. I've played DA2 2x now and I'm finished with the game until DLC and some expansion packs are released, were as DAO I played through at least 5x. Given the time, Bioware could make DA3 awesome, just use the DA2 engine, incorporate all the aspects people liked about DAO, continue and finish off the story with your Warden or Hawke. Hawke if you sacrificed your Warden and your Warden if you didn't sacrifice him or her. But to not finish off DAO, God baby, Morrigan, etc. and just leave it hanging is plain poor planning and not smart in the long run. Hawke was cool but my Warden I really got into, Hawke.......meh.

[UncleScrooge]

InvaderErl wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...


A good point of reference would be your second link.  ME sold 2,000,000 and ME2 sold 1.6 million. 

Source?

Oh and I know you'll post this as some kind of source

http://www.gamespot....ws/6184291.html

even though that number is clearly units shipped figure since the NPD figures for units sold during the first two months, nevermind it still isn't your 2 million figure.

You do know that just a few days ago EA went to NPD and asked them to stop releasing sales data to the public and media and NPD has complied, right?  99% sure it's because DA2 sales are extremely lackluster and they dont want to ****** off stockholders further than what they currently are.  In other words, they dont want a THQ/Homefront incident.

[neppakyo]

UncleScrooge wrote...
You do know that just a few days ago EA went to NPD and asked them to stop releasing sales data to the public and media and NPD has complied, right?  99% sure it's because DA2 sales are extremely lackluster and they dont want to ****** off stockholders further than what they currently are.  In other words, they dont want a THQ/Homefront incident.

Seriously? Doesn't bode well if true..

[InvaderErl]

I just read that, its a real shame. Though it wasn't JUST EA but several publishers banding together and applying pressure. I dread to realize that essentially VGChartz is essentially going to be releasing numbers at random from here on out.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 30 mars 2011 - 03:39 .

[didymos1120]

v_ware wrote...

For more information on sales go to this site: http://www.vgchartz.com/

Actually don't. Or at least, take a few grains of salt along on the trip.  Since they won't disclose their sources or methods of gathering data, and have been known to "retcon" their figures after firms that specialize in sales tracking have come up with different figures for various titles (which is why pointing to VGChartz numbers for relatively old releases and saying "See, those are accurate" doesn't count for much), it's hard to justify treating their numbers as anything like authoritative.  They're educated guesses combined with some unknown amount of actual hard data mixed in there somewhere...and the amount of education going into those guesses involved is also unknown. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 mars 2011 - 04:19 .

[didymos1120]

UncleScrooge wrote...

You do know that just a few days ago EA went to NPD and asked them to stop releasing sales data to the public and media and NPD has complied, right?

No, I don't know that.  I am wondering how you do though.  IOW: citation please.  It's just good manners when bringing up very current events that aren't yet common knowledge.

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[Otterwarden]

didymos1120 wrote...

UncleScrooge wrote...

You do know that just a few days ago EA went to NPD and asked them to stop releasing sales data to the public and media and NPD has complied, right?

No, I don't know that.  I am wondering how you do though.  IOW: citation please.  It's just good manners when bringing up very current events that aren't yet common knowledge.

www.411mania.com/games/news/179929/NPD-Wants-Analysts-to-Stop-Releasing-Sales-Data.htm

Not familiar with the issue, but keyword searching pulled this up.

Edit:  Also found this

www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/threads/354928-NPD-clamps-down-on-media-access-to-sales-data

Modifié par Otterwarden, 30 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[didymos1120]

Otterwarden wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

UncleScrooge wrote...

You do know that just a few days ago EA went to NPD and asked them to stop releasing sales data to the public and media and NPD has complied, right?

No, I don't know that.  I am wondering how you do though.  IOW: citation please.  It's just good manners when bringing up very current events that aren't yet common knowledge.

www.411mania.com/games/news/179929/NPD-Wants-Analysts-to-Stop-Releasing-Sales-Data.htm

Not familiar with the issue, but keyword searching pulled this up.

Edit:  Also found this

www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/threads/354928-NPD-clamps-down-on-media-access-to-sales-data

Ah, interesting.  Thanks.  I did note that there's nothing at all said in either about EA specifically making them do it (as Scrooge's post would have it), much less that it was almost certainly done solely to cover-up DA2's numbers or whatever, nor even that this was done just "a few days ago."  NPD simply said they heard from unspecified "clients and retail partners" at some equally unspecified time for almost entirely unspecified reasons.  I'd be perfectly willing to bet EA was one of those clients, but the fact is, there's just plain no evidence about who exactly it was that griped to NPD.

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 mars 2011 - 05:02 .

[Otterwarden]

didymos1120 wrote...

Ah, interesting.  Thanks.  I did note that there's nothing at all said in either about EA specifically making them do it (as Scrooge's post would have it), nor even that this was done just "a few days ago."  NPD simply said they heard from unspecified "clients and retail partners" at some equally unspecified time.  I'd be perfectly willing to bet EA was one of those clients, but the fact is, there's just plain no evidence about who exactly it was that griped to NPD.

www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33738

/NPD_Requests_Analysts_To_Rein_In_PubliclyReleased_Game_Sales_Data.php

the link to gamasutra does mention that the email came out Friday. 

[astrallite]

KneeTheCap wrote...

Does steam (or any other download service) release their sales figures? I think DA2 sold pretty well in steam...

Fell out of the Top 10 after release week on Steam. I highly doubt much on steam was beyond pre-orders.