37 réponses à ce sujet

[Gavn]

I'm playing an evil party. I have picked up Korgan and Viconia and Yoshimo.

This is my first time playing an evil party. I am working on the questline "Maevar's Teachery". Good job on bioware pitting me against two Iron Golems when I haven't had an opportunity to get ANY +2 weapons. *claps*

I don't even get a spellcaster until I finish this quest. So much for my no-reload challenge. ****ing bull****.

Modifié par Gavn, 29 mars 2011 - 02:14 .

[Flamedance]

Iron Golems? What mod are you using? Vanilla BG places Stone golems there. And doing a no reload requires extensive metagaming. If there are actually Iron Golems there, it's due to a mod. You can't blame Bioware for that.

You can actually pick up a spellcaster early (Aerie or Nalia). Dump her again after you get Edwin, if you feel she does not belong in an evil party.

You can use the spell "Enchanted Weapon" to get +3 weapons. IIRC, Fire elementals (even lesser ones) will do quite well against Stone Golems in vanilla.

[Grond0]

Gavn wrote...

I'm playing an evil party. I have picked up Korgan and Viconia and Yoshimo.

This is my first time playing an evil party. I am working on the questline "Maevar's Teachery". Good job on bioware pitting me against two Iron Golems when I haven't had an opportunity to get ANY +2 weapons. *claps*

I don't even get a spellcaster until I finish this quest. So much for my no-reload challenge. ****ing bull****.

I'm not sure why you assume you should automatically be able to do every quest without any planning or preparation.  If you see there are golems there and you really can't damage them then just run away until you can.  Quite apart from using spells, if you did Irenicus' dungeon then you had the chance to pick up a +2 weapon there.  There are also loads of them for sale by different vendors throughout the city.

[silenceall]

Not to pile on, but you could also get Jan as a stop-gap spell-chucker. At least he's not good.

[Dante2377]

To the original poster - based on the fact that you didn't know about the Golems in Rayic's house, that stone golems need +2 weapons to hit, and that you dont seem to know that once you clear out the Copper Coronet quest (one of the easiest quests) you can buy a +3 Axe and a +3 Longsword very cheaply as well as being able to just pick up an Axe +2 for free in the graveyard, I'm not sure a no-reload game is going to give you the enjoyment you expect. Typically, players who enjoy no-reloads are ones who have played through the vanilla game many times and are looking for a challenge. You generally need a strong knowledge of some of the more advanced areas like spell systems, traps, etc to be successful.

I don't mean to say that in a condescending way at all, but it doesn't sound like you have the experience as a player for an enjoyable no-reload challenge yet.

[Gavn]

What goo dis a +2 weapon from a dungeon that none of my characters have a proficiency for? Meanwhile I'm waiting for a critical (because that's the only way you're scoring a hit without proficiency) the golems hit for 45dmg which is almost 50% of the PC and Korgan's total HP.

The reason why I assume I should automatically be able to do a quest is because they are being presented to me in an orderly manner. If I hadn't metagamed, and this was my very first time playing, I wouldn't even have Viconia in my party at this point. I was sent to the docks for the Harper quest which lead to the Shadow Thieves quest which leads me to where I am now.

Conclusion: Poor planning from Bioware.

[Cowboy_christo]

And no its not poor planning, they give you the option to do pretty much every quest at the beginning. Does it mean you should do them? no unless you want a challenge, which by this thread you arent. Stop whining when your playing a no reload and got no clue wtf your doing. And you better not come back here and say "i got chunked by a trap derp".

[Ishad Nha]

In most computer games, monsters become progressively tougher as the game progresses. A basically linear game is a game where you have no real choice of the next area for your party to go to. This means that you are not confronted with monsters that are too tough for your party to handle.
In BG 2 there is a lot of choice as to where your party can go, thus you can get into an area that is way too tough for you to handle. In theory you can go to so many places, in actual practice you can't because of the consequences.

[Jeff W]

If you think that bg/bg2 can be no-reloaded without a lot of metagaming, you're in for a lot of frustration. These games were not designed to be played without reloads. Even roguelikes(no reload by default) with random dungeons like Crawl and Nethack cannot be beaten without extensive metagame knowledge and numerous character deaths during the learning process.

[Matuse]

Iron golems wouldn't even be there if you didn't have a mod in place. I run with the "all random encounters set to max" aspect of Tactics, which turns a lot of golems in to Iron, but that doesn't mean YOU have to do it.

Beat the Copper Coronet, and there are several extremely powerful weapon options for Korgan. If you want to talk about quests being made available to you and completing them "in order", why is the Copper Coronet still in the hands of Lehtinan? Skipping content is a pretty obvious way to screw up any expectations for gear that you are supposed to have.

Is it a bad order that you can go straight from the copper coronet and to the city exit area and run into the lich inside the tavern? He'd mop the floor with any fresh party.

Plus, if these are actually iron golems, then they are likely too big to fit through the doors that are available, and you can plink them with impunity. If they are stone, then they just die really fast.

[Grond0]

Gavn wrote...

What goo dis a +2 weapon from a dungeon that none of my characters have a proficiency for?

Lots of good if that's the only weapon you have that can hit someone!  The penalties for a warrior not being proficient are not so great anyway (-2), so I doubt if you really do only hit on a critical.  Anyway, Minsc actually has 2 stars in 2-handed swords (and if you left him in the dungeon or have modded his proficiencies then that's your planning, nothing to do with Bioware).

If you are really insistent on attacking straight away, rather than doing the sensible thing and just leaving until you are better prepared, you could try for instance:
- getting Minsc to hide in shadows downstairs and then go up for a free attack (and then quickly run away)
- getting the golems to chase one NPC while another nips in for a quick attack
- summoning creatures to give the golems something to hit while you attack them
- using potions to improve AC, speed, to hit etc
These tactics would require you to do some micro-managing of the battle, which you might find a challenge, although it would be easy enough if you were used to this style.

Finally, remember that this game is supposed to be fun.  If you don't like it, just don't play it.

[Shadow_Leech07]

Gavn wrote...

I'm playing an evil party. I have picked up Korgan and Viconia and Yoshimo.

This is my first time playing an evil party. I am working on the questline "Maevar's Teachery". Good job on bioware pitting me against two Iron Golems when I haven't had an opportunity to get ANY +2 weapons. *claps*

I don't even get a spellcaster until I finish this quest. So much for my no-reload challenge. ****ing bull****.

First thoughts are that since you are playing with neutral characters that you haven't bothered getting Jan, which would solve all your problems from the get go. He can deal with iron golems pretty easily with a bit of running and hiding. In any case, I don't really know how to solve your equation since no-reload with an evil party RP can be pretty difficult because the game developers assume people will first learn the system before diving into some kind of challenge type game.

For example I attempted no reload challenges in games like Icewind Dale(and Icewind Dale 2) and was very successful until I got literally bored of the games, but this was only after  extensive knowledge of Baldur's Gate. I would suggest  not RPing as evil.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 30 mars 2011 - 12:12 .

[HoonDing]

*cough* Melf's Minute Meteors *cough*

Modifié par virumor, 30 mars 2011 - 09:46 .

[Biotic_Warlock]

Iron golems are super easy when u get low AC and a couple of enchanted blunt weapons.

If you play a sorceror you can use lower resistance and spam magic missiles to kill them - they have suprisingly low HP.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 01 avril 2011 - 08:51 .

[Ishad Nha]

Monstrous Manual says that Iron Golems should be healed by fire-based spells. They should be slowed by Lightning Bolt.
Blunt weapons are needed for Clay Golems but not for Iron or Stone. Latter are only affected by Rock to Mud and Stone to Flesh spells.

[Flamedance]

Monster resistances and vulnerabilities in BG(2) generally do not correspond to those mentioned in the Monster Manual. Thus, MMM's will work fine against Iron Golems. Clay Golems are immune to slashing and Stone Golems are immune to blunt but can be destroyed by slashing weapons.

The Lower Resistance strategy mentioned above will work just fine against Iron Golems too.

[Ishad Nha]

Strange that Black Isle deviated so far from the accepted D&D conventions there.

[Gavn]

Stop whining when your playing a no reload and got no clue wtf your doing. And you better not come back here and say "i got chunked by a trap derp".

"Derp"? Oh so you're one of those dumb 14 year old 4-chan trolls. I got a better idea: Go **** yourself with a pinecone.

Thanks! XD

[Cowboy_christo]

Gavn wrote...

Stop whining when your playing a no reload and got no clue wtf your doing. And you better not come back here and say "i got chunked by a trap derp".

"Derp"? Oh so you're one of those dumb 14 year old 4-chan trolls. I got a better idea: Go **** yourself with a pinecone.



Thanks! XD

Yes im obviously 14 year old because im knowledgeable about different internet phenomenon. Pretty sure you know of "trolls" and not the DnD kind.

No reload is meant to be hard and your meant to have some metagaming experience before actually attempting or your gonna die obviously.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Ahh the minute meteors! I forgot those!
U can even kill the jailkeep golem at the start of SOA with them XD

A free helping of 3000xp

Luckily that spell ignores magic resistance.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 03 avril 2011 - 12:06 .

[Dante2377]

Flamedance wrote...

Monster resistances and vulnerabilities in BG(2) generally do not correspond to those mentioned in the Monster Manual. Thus, MMM's will work fine against Iron Golems. Clay Golems are immune to slashing and Stone Golems are immune to blunt but can be destroyed by slashing weapons.

The Lower Resistance strategy mentioned above will work just fine against Iron Golems too.

Not quite fully accurate:

- Clay golems are immune to slashing, but also to piercing and missile.  You can only hit them with magical blunt weapons

- stone golems have NO specific melee immunities (slashing, blunt, piercing, missile), but they are immune to non-magic and +1 weapons, so you'll need +2 anything.  Yes, +2 arrows will work too.   I've never had any problem bashing the Stone Golems with Flail of Ages.

- Iron Golems do have 125% resistance to both types of fire, so fire will heal them.  they have 100% resistance to all other elemental damage and 20% resistance to all forms of physical damage and you need at least +3 weapons to hit them.  At least on the GOLIR01.CRE.  there is a KPGOL04.CRE that is the same, only with 75% resistance to physical damage.  There is also a SHIRON.CRE that seems to be the same as the GOLIR01.CRE.  Not sure which one spawns where, but they all have the same HP and XP value.

The Jailkeep and Sewer golems are unique lesser forms and have their own CRE files.

Modifié par Dante2377, 03 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[Flamedance]

@Dante2377 You are right on the Stone Golems, of course. I stand corrected:)

[Biotic_Warlock]

If fire heals iron golems... why then do MMM's in my game damage them?

[Grond0]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

If fire heals iron golems... why then do MMM's in my game damage them?

MMM's do 4-7 physical damage +3 fire damage.  Presumably therefore the damage you can see is due to the physical strike.

U can even kill the jailkeep golem at the start of SOA with them

True, but any magic blunt weapon will do the trick - I usually use the staff from the dungeon, although a monk's fists will do nicely if you happen to have one along.

[Dante2377]

Yes, the 4-7 is piercing damage, so even with the heal of either 0 or 1, you're still doing somewhere in the 3-6 damage range per MMM.