84 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

So the mages have pretty much been pretty much under the chantrys thumb locked in their towers (or at least open magic has been banned) since 1.1 Divine.. It is now 9.40 Dragon, the mages began their rebellion from the circles in 9.37 dragon... So Why did it take a whole 937 years for them to get fed up? Why? How? did it take so long. I mean.. thats almost a millenium!! What have they been doing all this time? Why were they under chantry authority for soo long? I mean they have gone through what? 18-19 annulments and it took that many for them to care? I mean the way "Sister Nightingale" talks it seems like the mages would have taken action even without anders.. probably would have just taken longer I guess, But yeah with that new fraternatie and the cumberland events.. But why did it take them 937 years before they decided they'd had enough? I still cant get over how long that is.

[tausra]

Well some Circles are nicer than others. Why rebel when you get 3 square meals, a nice house, armed security, and a place where you can practice your craft all day every day without paying a dime? Many mages have escaped circles, but very few are willing to risk their lives on a gamble as big as open rebellion.

[AlexXIV]

I don't know why it took so long, but I blame the 'play nice' mages. Obviously submitting to the Chantry didn't gain them anything, it just doomed the generations of mages that came after. If there had been more couraged enough to stand up earlier, then probably the Chantry would have broke up earlier. Enduring oppression doesn't really help anyone, especially not those who come after you to endure the same.

Also I somehow think it is because of my Warden. She was such a rebel in DA:O and DA:A and those who saw her as a hero probably picked it up.

[Beerfish]

The mages got fed up? You mean a small number of radicals got fed up in one city. The majority of the mages are not fed up by how they are treated. When they talk about the Circle near lake calenhad they list the various mage factions and the real radicals seem to be in the minority.

[LobselVith8]

Wynne mentions in Amaranthine that more mages are leaning toward the Libertarian side, and it's likely only due to her intervention with Ines that the mages didn't go through with it (and Wynne said the Chantry would rather see all the mages than free, which is likely why mages never tried to resist Chantry control before Anders' revolution). Considering all the Circles across Thedas rebelled against Chantry after seeing that "the mighty templars could be defied" and can revere Hawke as a hero if he sides with the Kirkwall Circle (with the addition of the Hero of Ferelden having an impact by asking for the independence of the Circle of Ferelden), there are considerable reasons to show why mages decided to free themselves now when so many were already leaning towards it when the College of Magi convened in Cumberland.

[rma2110]

Because the blight comes along every so often and reminds everyone how much damage power mad mages can inflict on the world.

[AlexXIV]

rma2110 wrote...

Because the blight comes along every so often and reminds everyone how much damage power mad mages can inflict on the world.

While I like this idea, and the idea that my Warden is the reason this time the Blight was short, I have to say that to believe this you first have to believe that the Chantry is truthful. I have my suspicions about the blights and that they actually don't have anything to do with Tevinters trying to enter the fade. I am more leaning to lyrium and dwarves in ancient long forgotten thaigs who dug where they shouldn't have. After all the darkspawn didn't come from the fade, they came from deep in the earth, and the deep roads were the first to be hit.

So basically I think that the tevinters were cast down under the earth I think is made up chantry legend. In thruth the mages who went into the fade became demons or something. They may even have corrupted the once golden city. But I think the Darkspawn come from the same source that idol in DA2 came from. Which has to do with mages needing lyrim and dwarves digging for it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 29 mars 2011 - 03:01 .

[Parrk]

Considering the catalyst of this revolution, I can only assume that there exist no past instances of angry mages fusing spirits with a rogue spirit of justice and bombing the chantry.

If we killed all those templars because they would not revoke the rite of annulment (I killed em cuz I dont like them, but the other excuse would work out better in court I suspect), then we see that even the Kirkwall mages, who receive some of the worst treatment of any circle, still wished to not fight and only did on threat of certain death.

[LobselVith8]

rma2110 wrote...

Because the blight comes along every so often and reminds everyone how much damage power mad mages can inflict on the world.

Considering there's no proof that the Chantry's fable is even true (especially when the first people to actually encounter them - the dwarves - think it's bull****), I don't find that to be a compelling argument, especially when it's made by a religious order that was very biased against Tevinter to begin with.

[Herr Uhl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

Because the blight comes along every so often and reminds everyone how much damage power mad mages can inflict on the world.

Considering there's no proof that the Chantry's fable is even true (especially when the first people to actually encounter them - the dwarves - think it's bull****), I don't find that to be a compelling argument, especially when it's made by a religious order that was very biased against Tevinter to begin with.

It doesn't matter what the truth is if everyone believes the lie.

[AlexXIV]

Herr Uhl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

Because the blight comes along every so often and reminds everyone how much damage power mad mages can inflict on the world.

Considering there's no proof that the Chantry's fable is even true (especially when the first people to actually encounter them - the dwarves - think it's bull****), I don't find that to be a compelling argument, especially when it's made by a religious order that was very biased against Tevinter to begin with.

It doesn't matter what the truth is if everyone believes the lie.

But everyone does not believe it. Or did not. People who didn't have much clue in general believed it though, which is probably the majority.

[caradoc2000]

tausra wrote...

Why rebel when you get 3 square meals, a nice house, armed security, and a place where you can get a lobotomy at the drop of a hat. practice your craft all day every day without paying a dime

Fixed the quote for you...

[Herr Uhl]

AlexXIV wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

It doesn't matter what the truth is if everyone believes the lie.

But everyone does not believe it. Or did not. People who didn't have much clue in general believed it though, which is probably the majority.

Note how many believe in lies now, and we have a global information network. They had a dude swinging by every now and then from two towns over.

[tausra]

caradoc2000 wrote...

tausra wrote...

Why rebel when you get 3 square meals, a nice house, armed security, and where you can get a lobotomy when you go crazy and summon demons. Oh and you get armed security, and a free place to practice your craft all day every day.

Fixed the quote for you...

And I corrected your fix. Thanks for the contribution!

Modifié par tausra, 29 mars 2011 - 04:53 .

[Noatz]

I suppose the argument that it took this long because it was a result of comparitively random/rare events coinciding.

Unstable Circle in Kirkwall (weak veil) + Hardliner Templar leadership (Meredith) + Lyrium idol from a prehistoric thaig (Hawke/Tethras expedition) + Power vacuum and unstable politics in Kirkwall (Dead Viscount/Hawke's Champion status) + Angry renegade mage fused with corrupted spirit of justice (Anders) = Catalyst event.

What isn't clear is why all the other (more stable) Circles decided to rise up. Its possible that the balance between the mage fraternities was shattered by this event but the Aequitarians are not apt to completely abandon their stance overnight because of an event they were not even party to. I imagine this progression will be addressed in DA2 DLC.

[Statulos]

Think for a second: how long did the Roman Empire lasted till slavery was banned? And think for a second, how long did it take to get slavery completely removed and globally considered as something loathsome?

[Fat_Slob]

Statulos wrote...

Think for a second: how long did the Roman Empire lasted till slavery was banned? And think for a second, how long did it take to get slavery completely removed and globally considered as something loathsome?

Slavery became widely condemned with the rise of the modern age.  Massively improved quality of life tends to have a large positive effect on moral standards.

That's what I think anyway.

[PsychoBlonde]

Fat_Slob wrote...

Statulos wrote...

Think for a second: how long did the Roman Empire lasted till slavery was banned? And think for a second, how long did it take to get slavery completely removed and globally considered as something loathsome?

Slavery became widely condemned with the rise of the modern age.  Massively improved quality of life tends to have a large positive effect on moral standards.

That's what I think anyway.

Actually, the increasing condemnation of slavery preceded most of the quality of life improvements.  Both rose out of the same intellectual movements.  If it were true that "quality of life" encouraged people to be benevolent, then the slave *owners* would be the group most opposed to slavery, while the slaves themselves were in FAVOR of it.
 

[Patriciachr34]

It could be that in the past mages were afforded more freedom than they have currently. I believe the policy towards mages is dictated by the divine. If the current divine is more hard core anti-mage, then this could have spurred a crack down. Just food for thought here.

[Xewaka]

I will just mention that the Rite of Anullment has been invoked in the past several times along the Circles. What makes this occassion special is the coordination of the rebellion, not the rebellion per se.

[Arppis]

tausra wrote...

Well some Circles are nicer than others. Why rebel when you get 3 square meals, a nice house, armed security, and a place where you can practice your craft all day every day without paying a dime? Many mages have escaped circles, but very few are willing to risk their lives on a gamble as big as open rebellion.

If they would hook me up with video games and would allow one new game per month. I wouldn't rebel at all! Seems like a golden deal to me.

[Aedan Lives]

It took over a thousand years from the founding of the catholic church, until Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis on the door of his cathedral for the Protestant reformation to start. There's a lot involved in between that time, but biowares is depicting the breaking moment between the chantry and the mages. I don't find the length of time to be implausible.

[Deztyn]

Simple answer: Because the system worked for the majority of people.

[Noatz]

Xewaka wrote...

I will just mention that the Rite of Anullment has been invoked in the past several times along the Circles. What makes this occassion special is the coordination of the rebellion, not the rebellion per se.

That and the fact that Meredith's invocation of the rite was inappropriate.

[The Angry One]

Noatz wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

I will just mention that the Rite of Anullment has been invoked in the past several times along the Circles. What makes this occassion special is the coordination of the rebellion, not the rebellion per se.

That and the fact that Meredith's invocation of the rite was inappropriate.

And yet the Right was going to be formed in Ferelden with far less of an abomination to mage ratio..