520 réponses à ce sujet

[Aynien]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Yes I think so. There are four waves:

The game says it's five, you check it here, just scroll down, and you will see the last stand archievement.

[Bozorgmehr]

@ Leerio: It's easy to count (and spot) pyros and I'm pretty sure you'll never meet more than four of them, but it's very hard to spot what's happening to the guards. I did notice one replacing a pyro, so who knows - maybe guards are considered canon fodder and are not capped.

There's also the carry over thing - the two remaining enemies join the next wave which should reduce the max number of kills by 6-8. If your Vanguard killed 39 enemies then this is definitely not the case. How many elites, engineers and pyros did you kill? Four should be the limit, if I'm right, and two YMIRs.

@ Anyien: The game is wrong, just look at the power level bar in the right corner. There are four waves, no more, but maybe the game counts Kenson and her two guards as the first wave. You can also hear it when a new wave is triggered, Kenson or the Reaper will say something, Object Rho will glow and the power level bar will be filled. This only happens four times.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 07 avril 2011 - 12:42 .

[Leeroi]

I counter Kronner's kills and he killed exactly the same as me save 1 YMIR less. So 38 for him and 39 for me. I didn't notice any particular difference in the type of enemy either, though I did not count how many of each type spawned. I'll do that and get back to you.

P.S. Will have to wait till tomorrow because I'm sooooo tired. *yawn*

[Aynien]

Something is wrong...I just checked my Infiltrator video(since there's no bug on it), it took 5 kills to get a Pyro, 10 to get a Elite(and I only got one), 14 to get a Engeneer(also only one) and 17 to get the YMI. The first 9 kills where almost non stop, so the game was supposed to keep putting guards to replace them and at the end I was supposed to have more kills than Kronner and Leeroi, since I didn't let the game spawn all guards, but the opposed happened, I ended with 21 kills.

Then, here comes the difference, both Leeroy and Kronner, were running into the entire room, while i sit on the left corner for the entire battle. So I think, the game will try to fill the opposite side of the room with as many foes he can generate, instead of having a fixed amount of enemies to be fought.

Bozorgmehr wrote...
@ Anyien: The game is wrong, just look at
the power level bar in the right corner. There are four waves, no more,
but maybe the game counts Kenson and her two guards as the first wave.
You can also hear it when a new wave is triggered, Kenson or the Reaper
will say something, Object Rho will glow and the power level bar will be
filled. This only happens four times.

So, in theory, each time the bar get filled, it's a new wave right? Then, let's count:
1st at beginning of fight
2nd at 0:58
3rd at 1:33
4th at 2:20
Last one at 3:08

Modifié par Aynien, 07 avril 2011 - 01:18 .

[Aynien]

double post

Modifié par Aynien, 07 avril 2011 - 12:56 .

[Waltzingbear]

Have you survived all enemy waves? YES
Have you enjoyed the fight? YES

Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Soldier
Weapons used: Mattock, Eviscerator, Widow
Bonus power: Warp Ammo

What strategy have you used?
This fight is a cake for a Soldier if you play it carefully; but careful is for cupcakes.
Shot everyone in the head until they’re dead dead dead.


Gee, this makes me want to start ME2 again.

[Leeroi]

And here's an aggressive soldier video Rambo style:

Vampiric Rage

Again, as with my Vanguard video, expect lots of running, not much cover and this time it's all about the Red Zone because Shepard survives mostly on health! 

EDIT: Video might be blocked in Germany. If so, just use a proxy to see it! 

Modifié par Leeroi, 07 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[Kaylord]

Tried it twice with an Inflitrator, twice with a Vanguard. Died shamefully. I did not find a position to bunker up and moving around was cut short because of those pyros in between countless enemy fire.

Infiltrator: Ammo problem for the widow. Locust takes too long to kill approaching pyros/cannot stay out of cover long enough.
Vanguard: Charge + Cryvisterator. Pyros burn forth even when frozen. Annoyed the hell out of me.
Next tries will be with my widow soldier, though I foresee again serious ammo problems...

[Bozorgmehr]

Aynien wrote...

Something is wrong...I just checked my Infiltrator video(since there's no bug on it), it took 5 kills to get a Pyro, 10 to get a Elite(and I only got one), 14 to get a Engeneer(also only one) and 17 to get the YMI. The first 9 kills where almost non stop, so the game was supposed to keep putting guards to replace them and at the end I was supposed to have more kills than Kronner and Leeroi, since I didn't let the game spawn all guards, but the opposed happened, I ended with 21 kills.

Yeah, something is definitely wrong - my theory isn't (completely) right. Can happen when you're really tired (was around 3 in morning)

The number of enemies you kill doesn't affect which enemy type you face next though (I'm pretty sure about that one). You killed 5 guards before the first pyro appeared - for example, but my Avalanche Adept killed 6 and Leerio's Vanguard 7 guards to get there.

Then, here comes the difference, both Leeroy and Kronner, were running into the entire room, while i sit on the left corner for the entire battle. So I think, the game will try to fill the opposite side of the room with as many foes he can generate, instead of having a fixed amount of enemies to be fought.

When Shep is at one side of the room (when a new wave starts) - all enemies will always and only appear at the other side. However, when Shep is moving around (and/or hangs out somewhere in no man's land) enemies will spawn from both sides. It's also worth noting that guards will always jump down whereas Elites, Engineers, Pyros and YMIRs will always come through the doors).

So, in theory, each time the bar get filled, it's a new wave right? Then, let's count:
1st at beginning of fight
2nd at 0:58
3rd at 1:33
4th at 2:20
Last one at 3:08

Yes, you're right, there are five 'waves' when you look at the bar but you can hardly call some of them a real wave. My Avalanche Adept, for example, killed 6 guards to trigger the second wave. Another 2 pyros and 4 guards to get to the third wave. But this time only 2 pyros and an Elite showed themselves (not much of a wave imo, but when Shep killed the Elite (the second pyro had only just appeared and got stuck in the Singularity) the fourth wave triggered. This is pretty weird - first wave 6 kills, second wave 6 kills, third wave only 2 kills (the fourth wave was underway before the second pyro exploded). Fourth wave threw 3 guards, another Elite and an Engineer at Shep. The fifth and final wave included four guards, an Engineer, (an Elite, but he was the only survivor of the fourth wave so he doesn't really count) and the YMIR of course.

Your Infiltrator killed 20 (or 21 - there are 3 guards left when you're dealing with the mech, but you only killed 2 after it exploded???), my (Avalanche) Adept killed 27 enemies and Leerio's Vanguard killed 39 enemies:

1st  - 5 6 7 guards
2nd - 3 5 4 guards 2 2 2 pyros
3rd  - 1 0 5 guards 1 2 1 pyros 1 1 1 elites
4th  - 3 3 3 guards 0 0 1 pyros 0 0 1 elites       1 1 1 engineers
5th  - 2 4 2 guards 1 1 1 elites 0 1 1 engineers 1 1 1 YMIR

6th  - 0 0 5 guards 0 0 2 engineers 0 0 1 YMIR   >>>>   the Vanguard bonus wave or something

Not counting the bonus wave nets 14 18 21 guards, 3 4 4 pyros, 2 2 3 elites, 1 2 2 engineers (and one YMIR each). It does look like pyros are capped at four (it's weird though that Leerio got one during the 4th wave instead of 2 during the 3rd wave), elites are capped at 3 (one in the 3rd, 4th and 5th wave) and engineers at 2 (4th and 5th wave only).

There will also never be more than one pyro, elite, engineer and mech in the field. Who is fighting depends on the wave (pyro will join the 2nd, elite the 3rd, engineer the 4th and mech the 5th). Their ranks are bolstered with guards and they are the ones making the difference between the total number of kills. You killed 14, my Adept 4 more, and Leerio another 3 (or 8 including the bonus wave).

The game throwing different numbers of enemies at Shep doesn't make sense and the difference are basically limited to guards (might be interesting to kill guards only just to see what happens). Waves are always ended (or new waves are triggered) when the previous one has only two enemies remaining, but certain types of enemies must have been in play first. It's also striking that Leerio and Kronner killed the exact same number of enemies (39) - I have to check Kronner's vid to see if he also killed the same number of guards, elites etc.

End of rant I'm gonna load a Vanguard to try to kill more than 39 enemies

[Bozorgmehr]

Waltzingbear wrote...

This fight is a cake for a Soldier if you play it carefully; but careful is for cupcakes. Shot everyone in the head until they’re dead dead dead.

Gee, this makes me want to start ME2 again.

Nice Waltzing Bear

Leeroi wrote...

And here's an aggressive soldier video Rambo style: Vampiric Rage

Looks more like Rambino to me - FemShep FTW!

[Leeroi]

Kronner didn't get a second YMIR, so he killed 38, but apart from that he killed the exact same number of humans.

[Ryuu814]

Have you survived all enemy waves? NO
Have you enjoyed the fight? YES

Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Sentinel
Weapons used: Mattock, Locust, DLC Pistol
Bonus power: Slam

I came into this fight completely unaware of what to expect and unprepared, I had forgotten I took off my AP bonus power for Slam (it was really useful when I ran the Suicide Mission) And so I was without an Ammo power-up (I ran with Grunt).

I had no idea what the room lay-out was, where enemies came from and so on so forth, so in a panic I stayed where you started and spammed the Mattock like hell (I hurt my finger somehow...) It was fairly easy at the time as All I had to do was spam Overload and three quick shots to the head. Then the engineers came in >_> I barely survived that and then the heavy mech showed up! At this time I was hurting for ammo with only my Locust and a clip for my pistol. I dunno what happened but somehow my cover was compromised and I failed...

I was so close as well...

[Bozorgmehr]

Leeroi wrote...

Kronner didn't get a second YMIR, so he killed 38, but apart from that he killed the exact same number of humans.

You killed 26 guards, 4 pyros, 4 engineers, 3 elites and 2 mechs. Kronner killed 25,4,4,3,1 (and one vanished). This supports my claim about enemy caps and it also points towards the guards being the type of enemy that can possibly increase the number of kills further.

I think it's also interesting that Kronner (like you) got the 4th pyro during the 4th wave. I got the 3rd and 4th pyro during the 3rd wave (which was nothing more than 2 pyros and 1 elite). We all got 2 engineers and 3 elites (I only 2 coz my second elite carried over to the last wave, should I've killed him when I had the chance another one would have spawned during the 5th). The two additional engineers Kronner and you killed only appeared after the first YMIR was destroyed (or vanished).

I think the both of you Charged whomever got on your paths without caring about a specific order in which to kill enemy (types). I wonder what will happen if one does though. It's also interesting to know what the most efficient order of killing would be. If those 2 pyros plus an elite was indeed viewed as a full wave - why? And why didn't some guards show up and what to do exactly to make it happen again?

[Leeroi]

True! You're right about 1 YMIR vanishing on Kronner's run. So I end up killing 1 more guard than him? I need to get a piece of paper and write it down because I keep getting the body count wrong. And all of your questions at the end - I have no idea, I guess we need to investigate it further! For this specific fight Vanguard is unrivaled at killing speed (maybe only swn32's Soldier runs come close in terms of speed).

[Aynien]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Yeah, something is definitely wrong - my theory isn't (completely) right. Can happen when you're really tired (was around 3 in morning)

It was almost midnight for me as well, so mine wasn't error proof neither

Bozorgmehr wrote...
The number of enemies you kill doesn't affect which enemy type you face next though (I'm pretty sure about that one). You killed 5 guards before the first pyro appeared - for example, but my Avalanche Adept killed 6 and Leerio's Vanguard 7 guards to get there.

It was just a share of data, that I thought it would help, like having a "minimum" number of kill to trigger a especific enemy.

Bozorgmehr wrote...
When Shep is at one side of the room (when a new wave starts) - all enemies will always and only appear at the other side. However, when Shep is moving around (and/or hangs out somewhere in no man's land) enemies will spawn from both sides. It's also worth noting that guards will always jump down whereas Elites, Engineers, Pyros and YMIRs will always come through the doors).

That's the point, while you are moving, the game will keep spamming mobs to fill the room on the opposite side, thus why a more agressive run will result in more goons killed. Also I noted on my vanguard video, that when you move too fast from one side to another(charge), the game will cut the spawn on that side and immediatly start on the otherside. So I had 2 guards coming out from the door in front of me and a elite, a pyro and another guard coming from the other door.

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Your Infiltrator killed 20 (or 21 - there are 3 guards left when you're dealing with the mech, but you only killed 2 after it exploded???), my (Avalanche) Adept killed 27 enemies and Leerio's Vanguard killed 39 enemies:

I killed one of them with the YMIR explosion(that's why I didn't hacked it).

[Kronner]

Leeroi wrote...

True! You're right about 1 YMIR vanishing on Kronner's run. So I end up killing 1 more guard than him? I need to get a piece of paper and write it down because I keep getting the body count wrong. And all of your questions at the end - I have no idea, I guess we need to investigate it further! For this specific fight Vanguard is unrivaled at killing speed (maybe only swn32's Soldier runs come close in terms of speed).

One guard you almost killed vanished just in front of you, if you count that as a kill - he'd be dead if he didn't vanish - then yes, you killed one more guard.
YMIR vanished for me..
So in any case, one more enemy spawned in your run (unless an enemy vanished while I couldn't see him in my run LOL).

I think 40 spawned enemies is the maximum. I barely got to 30 in my Infiltrator run, and it wasn't far behind in terms of speed (excluding the two almost dead enemies that got stuck on the balcony, and it took me almost a minute to find them both in the very end of the video).

Freaking vanishing enemies make this harder to figure out, but if I'd bet that 40 is indeed the maximum, barring any vanishing and/or other unforeseeable bugs

Modifié par Kronner, 07 avril 2011 - 06:16 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Leeroi wrote...

True! You're right about 1 YMIR vanishing on Kronner's run. So I end up killing 1 more guard than him? I need to get a piece of paper and write it down because I keep getting the body count wrong. And all of your questions at the end - I have no idea, I guess we need to investigate it further! For this specific fight Vanguard is unrivaled at killing speed (maybe only swn32's Soldier runs come close in terms of speed).

I had to use a pen and paper to keep track. And yeah, I though I knew pretty much everything there is to know about ME2. I know where, when, which and how many enemies will appear anywhere in the game, but this fight is different to all the others. In terms of enemy and power behavior as well as numbers.

You're right about Vanguards, they can kill very fast, but speed isn't everything here imo although it really helps when it keeps the number of enemies shooting Shep at a minimum. Remember you killed 39 enemies, but Aynien only had to kill 21 enemies (almost half your number). With the Avalanche I think all classes can clear this level in less than 4 minutes, my Adept killed everything minus one enemy (who resisted Pull and killed Shep) in 3:30 which equals swn32's Soldier run and beats Kronner's and your Vanguard runs (though the two of you killed a lot more enemies).

Aynien wrote...

That's the point, while you are moving, the game will keep spamming mobs to fill the room on the opposite side, thus why a more agressive run will result in more goons killed. Also I noted on my vanguard video, that when you move too fast from one side to another(charge), the game will cut the spawn on that side and immediatly start on the otherside. So I had 2 guards coming out from the door in front of me and a elite, a pyro and another guard coming from the other door.

I think this does influences the AI's ability to throw in new enemies. Coz, like you said, moving around will spawn enemies at both sides instead of only one - effectively doubling the potential speed to bring in reinforcements. I think this is the most important reason why Vanguards can kill so many enemies.

I killed one of them with the YMIR explosion(that's why I didn't hacked it).

I figured something like that happened.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Guys, I thought I could record a vanguard video, but my vanguard has saved after Arrival Is anyone willing to send me his/her Vanguard save in exchange for one of mine saves (3 soldiers, infiltrator, adept, sentinel)?

[swn32]

Use Gibbed save editor, extremely useful tool.

[Leeroi]

Kronner wrote...

One guard you almost killed vanished just in front of you, if you count that as a kill - he'd be dead if he didn't vanish - then yes, you killed one more guard.
YMIR vanished for me..
So in any case, one more enemy spawned in your run (unless an enemy vanished while I couldn't see him in my run LOL).

Aaaah! All right, now it makes sense  Thanks for the heads-up!

I figured it out! One of the guards that's disappearing MUST be the Illusive man in disguise! HAHA

@Boz: Yes, that thing about speed is perplexing. Why is it you finished your run quicker when we killed more enemies  Doesn't make much sense

[Stardusk78]

Here is my Inferno Infiltrator's Last Stand:



Obviously I have modded her to use Inferno ammo (my favourite by far) and I have also modded the Incisor to be useful (I don't think it is OP. It does slightly less damage than the Viper but if all three bullets hit, it's a lot of damage; spread has been tightened and recoil reduced; most importantly, I have doubled the base ammo from 30>60 as well as ammo pick up; The negative is that it is very hard to land all three shots on a moving target and Sniper Slowdown (Assassin 60%) actually increases the spread sometimes...anyway, really fun weapon and love the look and sound of the Incisor.

I chose AR training on the ship for the simple reason that the Mattock rocks and it ESPECIALLY rocks with ammo powers, in particular Disruptor, Inferno and Cryo...one bullet is enough to pull off any effect.

Hope you all enjoy and there will be more coming!

P.S. Made a music transition mistake so there is a bit of silence in the video, sorry for that!

Modifié par Stardusk78, 08 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[EffectedByTheMasses]

@Stardusk: Damn, that is a brilliant Infiltrator mod. Incisor+Cloak+More ammo+Inferno = win.

[TerribleTorta]

All 5 waves survived: YUP
Had fun: HELL YES
Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Soldier
Weapons used: Revy, Viper, Geth Shotty, M5, M920 CAIN
Bonus power: Geth Shield Boost

As soon as the fight started I had a guy on my left and right. Adrenaline rush, ran past the guy on my left up into the left corner, mowed him down with my revy as I went, then just bunkered down in the corner and mowed everyone down. A great, clear view all the way to door (the door opposite of you being the one enemies come in from always). Medium to short range was all the revenant, either on full auto or three round bursts(for longer distances), that worked for all the infantry and engineers, I used the Viper for the pyros, always knicking the tank and timing them so they'd be surrounded by enemies when they started doing that "Holy crap, I'm on fire!" dance.

Used the cain for the final wave, almost blew myself to hell in the process, but a quick Heavy Geth Shield Boost later, and it was "First Blood" time, I left cover and mopped up the last of the resistance, being (most of) a heavy mech and like one guy, it wasn't too bad.

Modifié par TerribleTorta, 08 avril 2011 - 12:59 .

[Stardusk78]

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

@Stardusk: Damn, that is a brilliant Infiltrator mod. Incisor+Cloak+More ammo+Inferno = win.

Yes, it is pure joy to play.

The Incisor imo should be just what the Eviscerator is; a powerful weapon you can start the gaem with and KEEP. The Eviscerator is always a good choice if you don't go Claymore with other classes and that is my opinion of what the Incisor should be, useful and deadly, just like the Eviscerator. Plus the overall look and feel is awesome but unmodded, it is just broken, damage is too low, ammo is HORRIBLE.

I am in love with Inferno ammom my favourite by far...doing a Claymore Inferno Engineer right now, might make it to Object Rho the next few days for that too...

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Stardusk78 wrote...

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

@Stardusk: Damn, that is a brilliant Infiltrator mod. Incisor+Cloak+More ammo+Inferno = win.

Yes, it is pure joy to play.

The Incisor imo should be just what the Eviscerator is; a powerful weapon you can start the gaem with and KEEP. The Eviscerator is always a good choice if you don't go Claymore with other classes and that is my opinion of what the Incisor should be, useful and deadly, just like the Eviscerator. Plus the overall look and feel is awesome but unmodded, it is just broken, damage is too low, ammo is HORRIBLE.

I am in love with Inferno ammom my favourite by far...doing a Claymore Inferno Engineer right now, might make it to Object Rho the next few days for that too...

Yeah, shame I play on the 360. Personally I find it way easier to aim using a controller, but I wish I could be able to mod my favorite gun and power.  I've gone through Arrival once with an Engineer. Didn't make it pass the first pyro ><