520 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

I generally do this, as it is indeed much more effective, but in this fight their movement is too unpredictable, especially around all those pillars, so I just didn't do it. On the way back (to the guy who was originally Charged) Shep can easily die, one stagger is all it takes (unless I'd luck out and get away with it); but this vid was just a quick try, not much strategy involved. I'll definitely be trying out different approaches to this fight, it is damn fun

Yeah, I noticed that too. It looks like this dlc has also patched the game - the me2.exe and the coalesced.ini have been updated (all my Sheps have heavy weapons again). Have you tried other missions? I haven't, only played the dlc and enemies acted like they normally do up to this fight. I dunno what part the level design plays (cover everywhere) but enemies move and act differently. This is what I noticed so far:

- Enemies will only flank when you're moving around. Staying put for some time (5-10 s) will stop flanking. There are half a dozen (probably more) spots that can be used to dig in. The two L shaped spots on the left are excellent positions, swn32's Soldier vid shows another good one, and you can also stay in the centre (like my Adept).

- Enemies come in waves of 5-6 (never counted more enemies). New waves are triggered when there are 1 or 2 enemies left. Spawn points are near the doors, it's totally random which point they'll use (while moving around) and enemies can and will spread out and attack Shep from multiple angles.

- Enemies don't like to cluster which is bad news for AoE powers and their constant repositioning doesn't help either. This makes it particularly hard for casters, they can only target one enemy most of the time and with 4 (unaffected) enemies constantly shooting Shep ... Insta-cast powers can be a pain when enemies duck during the casting animation (power is likely going to hit cover). Arced powers are easier to use.

- Enemy positioning also makes life harder for Vanguards, Inferno Ammo is of little use here and almost no easy double or triple kills (the enemy closest to the one you charge is usually out of (optimal) shotgun range - Leerio shows how to best handle this). However, this isn't disadvantageous for every Vanguard (relatively easy Charge-Kill-Get Cover play) but it does limit their familiar (insane) killing speed.

swn32 wrote...

I also like the fact that you stasis kill the YMIR, its much more fun than slowly draining its shields and armor. Its as legal as a reload trick in my books.

Yeah, Stasis and (charged) GPS is nice - one-shots defenses (= you've won). I like the Stasis-Widow(headshot) combo too, always great to nuke the bastards.

I'm not sure what to think of the YMIR, it would be more challenging if it joined the fight at an earlier stage. On their own, YMIRs can be destroyed quite easily (time consuming though). Stasis speeds things up a bit. Maybe the devs have watched one of those YMIR Hacking videos and decided it would be too easy if Engineer/Infiltrator can use the mech to kill most of the guards.

@ Kronner: Tony's Infiltrator video links to one of swn32's Soldier vids in the OP.

So we've got the Soldier, Vanguard, Infiltrator and Adept covered. Stardusk recorded an Engineer run which leaves the Sentinel. Anyone tested Assault Sentinel yet? I'm interested in their survivability, thus far only the Vanguard and Infiltrator are able to move around (their signature powers are build for this).

@ jwalker: nice video and another confused YMIR. What did it do? Trying a LOKI CQC (suicidal) attack maybe?

[AkodoRyu]

I got the achievement on Insanity with my Power Sentinel, using Stasis(6)/Locust/Carniflex/Grenade launcher. Took me 2 times retry to "look around", got it after third time. I was sitting in the left lower corner of the room (like on the picture below), where I had a nice cover from two sides. Full upgrade list as it's my after SM game.

Also, I'm not sure what the hell happened with YMIR, Got him in stasis in 2 times, and he blow up halfway from my cover, it looked like the relic zapped him. Pyros take 2 Overloads (6 points), one to bring down shields, second to blow them up, they and Engineers were my priority. The rest is the usual, careful strip-armor-shot-to-death strategy and... Here we go.



Did I enjoy it? Hell yeah.

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 31 mars 2011 - 03:28 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Have you survived all enemy waves? YES
Have you enjoyed the fight? YES

Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Soldier
Weapons used: M15 Vindicator, Widow (for heavy) and M3 Predator against weaker enemies to conserve ammo.
Bonus power: Heavy Energy Drain

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
- Enemies will only flank when you're moving around. Staying put for some time (5-10 s) will stop flanking. There are half a dozen (probably more) spots that can be used to dig in. The two L shaped spots on the left are excellent positions, swn32's Soldier vid shows another good one, and you can also stay in the centre (like my Adept).

This, and the fact that enemies only seem to flank from Shep's left, I think, are important to note for this sequence.

I haven't had a chance to do another playthrough since my last post, but I'm going to try exploiting these points when I get the chance.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 31 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[jwalker]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Yeah, I noticed that too. It looks like this dlc has also patched the game - the me2.exe and the coalesced.ini have been updated (all my Sheps have heavy weapons again). Have you tried other missions? I haven't, only played the dlc and enemies acted like they normally do up to this fight. I dunno what part the level design plays (cover everywhere) but enemies move and act differently. This is what I noticed so far:

Yes, dlc  patches the game without even a prompt. Now my shepards get tired after a 2 meters run in hub worlds

The other thing I noticed, is that the inferno ammo icon on the Claymore doesn't show, which is good. I haven't played other missions, though

Bozorgmehr wrote...

@ jwalker: nice video and another confused YMIR. What did it do? Trying a LOKI CQC (suicidal) attack maybe?

AkodoRyu wrote...

Also, I'm not sure what the hell
happened with YMIR, Got him in stasis in 2 times, and he blow up halfway
from my cover, it looked like the relic zapped him.

Yeah, it looks like Stasis is more buggier.

This happened when I actually got the cheevo.

The granade took out the heavy mech, but when it exploded the mech was already on the floor.
I thought the huge damage bonus was "available" during the brief moment the target is falling. Guess not.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Fail. I hope BW fixes this, or it's gonna be a long wait for ME3.

[AkodoRyu]

Figured Stasis is the keyword for this, it's very probable that the enemies threw grenades like idiots. It just happened too fast for me to notice what happened. Still, helluva bug, but I don't see it disturbing, it's a single player after all.

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 31 mars 2011 - 05:21 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

The 2m storm limit really sucks though.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Yeah, I noticed that too. It looks like this dlc has also patched the game - the me2.exe and the coalesced.ini have been updated (all my Sheps have heavy weapons again). Have you tried other missions? I haven't, only played the dlc and enemies acted like they normally do up to this fight. I dunno what part the level design plays (cover everywhere) but enemies move and act differently.

It just re-applied 1.02 patch IMHO. My coalesced.ini was untouched anyway. I have not noticed any differences except for enemy movement in that room with object Rho.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

@ Kronner: Tony's Infiltrator video links to one of swn32's Soldier vids in the OP

Damn. Thanks! It's been fixed.

[swn32]

Kronner wrote...
Very nice video, added to the OP
Poor Mech, his own buddy blows him up..poor team tactics result in a disaster

I dont think that was a team kill. I think its another glitch with stasis. I've had YMIRs coming out of stasis just die without taking any damage. You can see in that video, there was no flashbangs thrown in.

[Kronner]

swn32 wrote...

I dont think that was a team kill. I think its another glitch with stasis. I've had YMIRs coming out of stasis just die without taking any damage. You can see in that video, there was no flashbangs thrown in.

Really? I'll have to re-watch that part then.

edit: indeed.. no flashbang. Maybe the same glitch happened in my video and it only coincided with the Flashbang. Damn, and I thought they were so stupid they killed their own mech.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 mars 2011 - 06:25 .

[Alamar2078]

@Bozorgmehr:

My findings seem to run a little differently than yours.  I'm not sure if that's because the XBox reacts differently from other platforms: ....

-- I find that in certain spots you can dig in and "almost never" got flanked even when new waves came in.   Other spots [even if you don't move] you should expect to get flanked fairly quickly.  YMMV. 

-- I had good luck if I got to L-shaped cover [means victory for any class I've done it on yet].  I also have pretty good luck if I can make it behind certain columns with clear sight of the front door.

-- My enemies clustered reasonably well.  At the beginning of waves getting 3+ guys in an AOE was easy.  Later on I could almost always get 2+ so it wasn't bad.  My "caster Engineer" had a much easier time than either of the Soldiers that I ran though.  Area Overload / Area Energy Drain / Area Incinerate.   Even Exploding Drone caught multiples in explosions often enough to be worthwhile.

-- I can't imagine how much easier the level would be with some form of Dominate or Stasis.

*******************************************************************************

Something that I noticed when playing my Engineer is that the DRONE isn't 100% effective any more in locking down who I target.  I found a lot of guys simply ignoring the Drone even though it was cast right on them.  I also noticed the Drone ignoring some targets that were at "point blank range" from it and I'm not sure why.   More investigation may be needed

[Sparrow44]

Regarding clustered enemies, I usually encountered clusters of 3-4 enemies which helped a lot with powers like Neural Shockwave on my Infiltrator and Inferno and Area Reave on my Vanguard.

One thing to notice is that as well as coming through the doors on each side some enemies will jump down from the windows above the doors. And if you're lucky you'll have 4-5 enemies camped in that one area; perfect to try and get your AoE powers in effect.

[Ileanos07]

Have you survived all enemy waves? YES
Have you enjoyed the fight? YES

Difficulty level: Veteran
Shepard's class: Adept
Weapons used: Mattock
Bonus power: Warp ammo

[Alamar2078]

Sparroww wrote...

Regarding clustered enemies, I usually encountered clusters of 3-4 enemies which helped a lot with powers like Neural Shockwave on my Infiltrator and Inferno and Area Reave on my Vanguard.

One thing to notice is that as well as coming through the doors on each side some enemies will jump down from the windows above the doors. And if you're lucky you'll have 4-5 enemies camped in that one area; perfect to try and get your AoE powers in effect.

I use this moment to zap some guys with an Arc Projector.  One shot strips shields from Goons & Pyros instantly.  The Pyro blows soon thereafter and often hurts the other guys.  Then just use weapons or power to smite the goons or wipe the shields off of Elites / Engineers.   If the Mech is coming through I usually fire the weapon enough times that ONLY the mech is left.   At this point it's usually "easy".

Modifié par Alamar2078, 31 mars 2011 - 07:40 .

[Destroydacre]

Have you survived all enemy waves? YES
Have you enjoyed the fight? NO

Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Infiltrator/Sentinel/Vanguard
Weapons used: Widow & Locust/Locust & CPB /Claymore & Locust
Bonus power: Geth Shield Boost/Reave/Fortification

I can't say I really enjoyed the fight considering the result is the same regardless. I honestly would rather have had the doctor just knock you out after you see the reaper vision. There really was no need for the fight at all. I didn't survive with my engineer and I haven't done arrival with my adept yet, but this fight really isn't that difficult. Just make sure to pick off the pyros before they have a chance to close in and make sure there's hardly any guards left by the time the mech is released. YMIR's aren't too difficult when it's just one on one. There's several places that provide cover on 3 sides and the guards really don't flank you at all during the fight. The only enemies that move in close are the pyros and the mech.

Modifié par Destroydacre, 31 mars 2011 - 07:57 .

[CroGamer002]

Have you survived all enemy waves? YES / NO
Have you enjoyed the fight? HELL YES!

Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Soldier
Weapons used: Widow
Bonus power: Improved Geth Shield

What strategy have you used?
1st I killed 1 enemy from right flank with Scimitar then forced other hostiles to attack me from right flank.
After that I have clear shot on them since on left flank Object Rho is on my way.
My high priority targets were Pyro's and I was shooting their fuel canister instead of heads since it explodes.
I also use Widow limited so I can save my ammo for Pyro's, Engineer's, Elite's and YMIR Mech( + in my 2nd playthrough I didn't picked up ammo from Batarians prison guards so I had less ammo since I though I got refiled).
I used Cain for last so I can kill YMIR Mech in just 3 shots.


Soldier, Widow, Scimitar, GPR, Cain, Insanity.

Modifié par Mesina2, 31 mars 2011 - 09:06 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Alamar2078 wrote...

-- I find that in certain spots you can dig in and "almost never" got flanked even when new waves came in.   Other spots [even if you don't move] you should expect to get flanked fairly quickly.  YMMV.

 

Yeah, you're right, when you dig in (somewhere with 2 sides covered) - and stay there - you'll be fine. My observations are about what happens when you start to move around. Check the Vanguard and Tony's Infiltrator videos; there are very few clustered enemies (hardly any Inferno Ammo effects).

-- I had good luck if I got to L-shaped cover [means victory for any class I've done it on yet].  I also have pretty good luck if I can make it behind certain columns with clear sight of the front door.

-- My enemies clustered reasonably well.  At the beginning of waves getting 3+ guys in an AOE was easy.  Later on I could almost always get 2+ so it wasn't bad.  My "caster Engineer" had a much easier time than either of the Soldiers that I ran though.  Area Overload / Area Energy Drain / Area Incinerate.   Even Exploding Drone caught multiples in explosions often enough to be worthwhile.

 

When you're settled down, enemies will come from one direction only. When you're on the move, they'll come form all sides (I got nailed by a pyro once, who got into play right behind me).

This is something new to ME2, on all the other missions it doesn't really matter how you move around. Most fights can become a lot easier when you use an aggressive approach and enemies still share cover spots (which can be exploited with AoE and/or Inferno Ammo attacks). This is also true for the other parts of the dlc - not for the Fight for you Life part, however. That part punishes players who like to stay mobile. That's strange considering it's more difficult to catch a moving target than one who stays in one place. The game effectively outflanks the flankers and resorts back to the usual linear cover-based firefights whenever the player gives the signal. That's bad imo, enemy AI should be just (or even more) potent when faced with a stationary player. There isn't a place where you cannot be flanked yet the AI only seems to know this if the player (tries to) show how it's done.

I wouldn't have minded if it was almost impossible to survive this fight, it doesn't matter anyway - you still continue the mission whether you make it or not. To me, it looks like the AI acts stupidly on purpose - just to make the fight easier (for most classes).

Something that I noticed when playing my Engineer is that the DRONE isn't 100% effective any more in locking down who I target.  I found a lot of guys simply ignoring the Drone even though it was cast right on them.  I also noticed the Drone ignoring some targets that were at "point blank range" from it and I'm not sure why.   More investigation may be needed

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. Enemies ignore drones almost completely (they don't before and after the fight). Fortunately the YMIRs still hate those nasty insects buzzing around.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

-- I find that in certain spots you can dig in and "almost never" got flanked even when new waves came in.   Other spots [even if you don't move] you should expect to get flanked fairly quickly.  YMMV.

 

Yeah, you're right, when you dig in (somewhere with 2 sides covered) - and stay there - you'll be fine. My observations are about what happens when you start to move around. Check the Vanguard and Tony's Infiltrator videos; there are very few clustered enemies (hardly any Inferno Ammo effects).

Actually, during my playthroughs (err, attempts), the enemy would bunch up somewhat. However, I'd basically been actively trying to corral them together so I'd only take fire from one direction. I guess it depends on how you move and where you choose to bunker down on that level.

Bozorgmehr wrote...
When you're settled down, enemies will come from one direction only. When you're on the move, they'll come form all sides (I got nailed by a pyro once, who got into play right behind me).

This is something new to ME2, on all the other missions it doesn't really matter how you move around. Most fights can become a lot easier when you use an aggressive approach and enemies still share cover spots (which can be exploited with AoE and/or Inferno Ammo attacks). This is also true for the other parts of the dlc - not for the Fight for you Life part, however. That part punishes players who like to stay mobile. That's strange considering it's more difficult to catch a moving target than one who stays in one place. The game effectively outflanks the flankers and resorts back to the usual linear cover-based firefights whenever the player gives the signal. That's bad imo, enemy AI should be just (or even more) potent when faced with a stationary player. There isn't a place where you cannot be flanked yet the AI only seems to know this if the player (tries to) show how it's done.

I wouldn't have minded if it was almost impossible to survive this fight, it doesn't matter anyway - you still continue the mission whether you make it or not. To me, it looks like the AI acts stupidly on purpose - just to make the fight easier (for most classes).

That's what kept happening to me. I think the only way the AI can outflank you is by spawning enemies behind you as you move to flank.

On the other hand, it's a bit frustrating that the AI can be exploited simply by camping at certain spots. I guess I can't really complain though. The only ppl truly 'disadvantaged' by this are probably Claymore Vanguards, but Kronner & co. have shown that they can *do it the hard way* just fine.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 31 mars 2011 - 09:42 .

[Alamar2078]

I found some spots on the level where you only have cover on one side and the enemy still won't flank you often. Once in a long while a guy might creep up but that's when Shep just lays some smack down on the loner and you're fine to continue with the level.

Honestly without "exploiting" the AI, using heavy doses of Heavy Weapons ammo, and higher than usual amounts of Medigel I don't see how some classes could get through. I know I'll have to exploit AI Flanking behaviour here to get through with my "sniper / caster adept".


OT: It's odd that I don't mind exploiting AI movements but I think the "reload trick" or Stasis "bug" are the worst things ever and I avoid them in my personal playthroughs .... Hypocritical???

[Alamar2078]

As for the Claymor Vanguards in my playthroughs there is almost always one guy "out there all by himself" ... I'm thinking my Claymor Vanguard will be one of the few classes I have that won't just spam heavy weapons ammo everywhere

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Honestly without "exploiting" the AI, using heavy doses of Heavy Weapons ammo, and higher than usual amounts of Medigel I don't see how some classes could get through. I know I'll have to exploit AI Flanking behaviour here to get through with my "sniper / caster adept".


OT: It's odd that I don't mind exploiting AI movements but I think the "reload trick" or Stasis "bug" are the worst things ever and I avoid them in my personal playthroughs .... Hypocritical???

I'm still PO'd at being one of the few guys who [sigh] "Didn't make it", considering how I blew through the rest of the mission as fast as I would a regular one that gives me a team. ATM I'm a huge proponent of exploiting the AI in this fight - so much so that I propose we consider this the proper, legit way to beat this level.

For the other thing, I'm not particularly against the reload trick, or stasis, since they've been more or less legitimized by the developers to varying degrees.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 31 mars 2011 - 10:27 .

[kstarler]

I failed it my first time through, because I didn't want to have to turtle down, and after 6 attempts (and pre-attempt cut scenes, but more on that later) with a Claymore Vanguard, I decided I would just die and try again with my Soldier. My second attempt with my Rev/Viper/GPS soldier, I made it through by turtling at the left side L and sniping guys. I ran out once to recover ammo for the Viper (though I probably could have made it fine just switching to the Rev), and used a charged GPS w/Heavy Disruptor/ARush combo to drop the YMIR's shields and Rev w/Inferno Ammo to finish it off. I had one Engineer left who was "stuck" at the door. I probably could have used Heavy Weapon Ammo, but I was saving it for the final part of the mission.

To a gripe point, why did BioWare make it so that you have to endure an un-skippable cut scene to retry this encounter? I like trying things that get me killed well enough, but I hate not being able to hit F-9 and jump right back into the encounter.

[Arhka]

Finally did a video run of it on my Sentinel on Insanity. Will upload a musicless version later, if I get the time.

Sentinel vs Object Rho

Nothing too fancy, played it very safe in this video.

Modifié par Arhka, 01 avril 2011 - 01:14 .

[oOmpie]

swn32 wrote...

I still wish weapons could be accessed by hotkeys.
 

^ True... true...