520 réponses à ce sujet

[Locutus_of_BORG]

davidshooter wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^^The sweetspots are exploits, IMO. The AI just stops working when you bunker up in those spots. They aren't particularly protected spots in the conventional sense, they're just spots where the AI inexplicitly won't flank you.

I agree.  I noted earlier I'm a hypocrit.  I don't like the Reload "trick"/exploit or the Stasis bug.   However I'm perfectly happy to explot AI pathfinding.

Otherwise I'd only get about half of my classes through this ... and then only after loading & reloading way too much

What are the sweet spots? 

I found in this level pyros will come right up to you but most of the other enemies won't try much in the way of flanking no matter where you take cover.  I always head to one of those L shaped covers in the corners just because I like the view from there and I can see pyros from a ways off.

If you get to the point where sweet spots are considered exploits then an infiltrator cloaking would have to be one too since the AI freezes when you are solo and forgets it's in combat mode until you re-appear.  If you ever modded the game to play solo with an infiltrator you'll be pretty familiar with how broken the AI is when using cloak.  Out of cover enemies just stand there begging to be shot.

None of this compares to one shotting A fully shielded YMIR into it's health on insanity though since that by-passes the whole reason this fight is difficult to begin with. 

The sweet spots are generally at the L-shaped covers around the map.. anything that blocks your left flank should work. Using them can be considered an exploit because for some reason the AI hardly ever flanks right on this level. You can have your ass totally hanging out on your right and still be pretty safe as long as the AI is obstructed to your left. I consider this an exploit because it works consistently and nonsensically for all classes, whereas calling Tactical Cloak an exploit is mooted by the fact that it was clearly designed to work the way it does.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 02 avril 2011 - 02:17 .

[Bozorgmehr]

lazuli wrote...

I'll get us back on track. People have been discussing limited mobility options in this fight for any classes other than Vanguard and Infiltrator. I was able to move around with my Soldier for much of the battle. I was about to claim victory when I killed myself with the CAIN/charged it in the open too long (not really sure which one happened). I know the CAIN is basically everyone's favorite HW, but I almost never use it so I have next to no experience with it. It comes out for like one mission a playthrough. You reap what you sow, I guess.

What strategy did your Soldier use? And which weapons - Revenant or Mattock?

I haven't played Soldier yet, but as far as I can tell (based on my experience with Adept and Engineer) it will be very hard. With 'moving around' I mean playing like a (or at the) vanguard: Swiftly moving from one target to the next with only the occasional 1-2 seconds in cover to reload, wait on cd, recover health/shield etc. There's no way an Engineer can do this (due to the Drone bug - it doesn't distract enemies at all, only the drones' attacks will stun enemies briefly) and the couple of Adept-tries got me killed (somewhere during the second wave).

The increased stormspeed plus AR should make it relatively easy to get to another (cover)spot anywhere on the map, but to stay mobile you must kill enemies very fast (like Leerio does in his latest vid) otherwise you'll be taking too much damage (you'll be under fire almost indefinitely - there are very few spots giving you a breather for more than a seconds or two.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 02 avril 2011 - 03:10 .

[Bozorgmehr]

horangi88 wrote...

For the YMIR, remember that Energy Drain refills your shields every time you cast it. I charged up a GPS shot, popped out of cover, shot until my shields went down, cast ED (shields get re-filled) and kept shooting until shields dropped again and then took cover (charging another GPS shot and recovering shields).

You cannot charge the GPS while in cover, and leaving cover to charge it will get you killed (or very close to it) before its even fully charged. Energy Drain helps, but only a little - your shield will still be blown off in 0.x seconds.

If you can time it with the rocket/bullet cycle of the YMIR you can get off a lot of shots and Energy Drains.

The gauntlet YMIR (unlike his pals) doesn't use its missiles often, it fires its machine gun almost the entire time (and that hurts).

For the YMIR's armor, Heavy Warp and the Carnifex. You do have to time it with the rocket/bullet cycle and maybe you'll have fall back to a new position if it gets too close (I didn't have to, the YMIR walked to the opposite side of the glass divider I took cover behind). If you move, apply medigel to recover your shields if needed. Hope this makes sense.

Unless the YMIR got stuck somewhere, it will be all over you well before you've dropped its shield, and those L shaped spots (on the left) do not provide cover when YMIR gets close. The limited use of rockets means Shep will lose his/her (full) barrier every time (s)he uses Warp (and you'll need a dozen (Heavy Warps) to strip its armor). 

Moving around is extremely dangerous: By getting up you've lost your shield and you won't get far without medkits. More importantly, enemies will immediately flank you (very fast). They aggressively move on you (and will get very close, regardless of your (new) position. After they've done that, they'll back off to their usual (medium range) positions (assuming you've survived the assault).

Your strategy might work if the YMIR can't reach you, but if it doesn't get stuck somewhere you're basically doomed. The only way I managed to deal with a 'charging' YMIR is by using Stasis.

P.S. I'm not trying to ridicule your strategy but I've had different experiences - a more specific description might help, or better, a video. It would be really helpful if there's a spot that shields you from the YMIR's attacks.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 02 avril 2011 - 03:28 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Leeroi wrote...

[Video] Cover and Vanguard? Not in my game!

She's on fire and she does it again (after a change of clothes)!

What you can expect from this video: Tons of charging, 2 YMIR mechs and plenty of smoke! And more importantly - no cover! Had to use it once due to a charge bug relatively early in the video and I then ducked by instinct when the YMIR appeared, but realized I didn't need it and got on with it. So, in effect this is a no-cover head on charge claymore fest.

Warning: Do not try this at home, not for the faint hearted

Awesome play!

I think you'll get another YMIR if you kill the first one before the last reinforcements are in play - Stasis FTW :-)

[lazuli]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

lazuli wrote...

I'll get us back on track. People have been discussing limited mobility options in this fight for any classes other than Vanguard and Infiltrator. I was able to move around with my Soldier for much of the battle. I was about to claim victory when I killed myself with the CAIN/charged it in the open too long (not really sure which one happened). I know the CAIN is basically everyone's favorite HW, but I almost never use it so I have next to no experience with it. It comes out for like one mission a playthrough. You reap what you sow, I guess.

What strategy did your Soldier use? And which weapons - Revenant or Mattock?

I haven't played Soldier yet, but as far as I can tell (based on my experience with Adept and Engineer) it will be very hard. With 'moving around' I mean playing like a (or at the) vanguard: Swiftly moving from one target to the next with only the occasional 1-2 seconds in cover to reload, wait on cd, recover health/shield etc. There's no way an Engineer can do this (due to the Drone bug - it doesn't distract enemies at all, only the drones' attacks will stun enemies briefly) and the couple of Adept-tries got me killed (somewhere during the second wave).

The increased stormspeed plus AR should make it relatively easy to get to another (cover)spot anywhere on the map, but to stay mobile you must kill enemies very fast (like Leerio does in his latest vid) otherwise you'll be taking too much damage (you'll be under fire almost indefinitely - there are very few spots giving you a breather for more than a seconds or two.

I used the Mattock and Viper.  I wouldn't say I was as mobile as my Infiltrator, but I kept it flowing fairly well without venturing into melee combat much.  I did not play strictly CQC like a Vanguard (or my Infiltrator) might here.  My strategy was to use AR to kill a few goons, reload, then use it to cover my movement to a safer location.  When ammo was tight, I'd move to get more or switch to my GPS for a shot here and there.

In short, nothing impressive.  The Soldier has enough firepower to get through this battle without too much difficulty.  Well, at least until you kill yourself with the CAIN.

[Arhka]

Leeroi wrote...

[Video] Cover and Vanguard? Not in my game!

She's on fire and she does it again (after a change of clothes)!

What you can expect from this video: Tons of charging, 2 YMIR mechs and plenty of smoke! And more importantly - no cover! Had to use it once due to a charge bug relatively early in the video and I then ducked by instinct when the YMIR appeared, but realized I didn't need it and got on with it. So, in effect this is a no-cover head on charge claymore fest.

Warning: Do not try this at home, not for the faint hearted

[i]Very nice. I didn't even know you could get a second YMIR.

Sooner or later, there will be a competition trying to see who can clear all 5 waves the fastest.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

I've just cleared them in 3 mins as Sentinel. Going to play as soldier now...

[Leeroi]

Arhka wrote...

Leeroi wrote...

[Video] Cover and Vanguard? Not in my game!

Very nice. I didn't even know you could get a second YMIR.

Sooner or later, there will be a competition trying to see who can clear all 5 waves the fastest.

Haha, I think that's it from me as a Vanguard  I just wanted to prove (to myself really) that a sound strategy and a good aim are the 2 things that really matter in aggressive play. That is especially true when Shepard is on his/her own like in Arrival. The only downside of the Last Stand is that it eliminates strategic moves that would be present if squadmates were there. Oh well, you can't have everything - I still think it's one of the best fights in the game and it's definitely the best place to practice your aim and your reflexes.

My next video will probably be an instructional vid on advanced vanguard strategy, the reload trick step-by-step and battlefield positioning. I find those are the things that are keeping people behind cover most of the time so I'll be providing some tips and examples.

Thanks for the nice comments everyone! I think this thread has gathered some real talent and all the videos so far are amazing. Keep it up! The strategy section needed something like this ages ago

[thatdude90210]

Leeroi wrote...
My next video will probably be an instructional vid on advanced vanguard strategy, the reload trick step-by-step and battlefield positioning. I find those are the things that are keeping people behind cover most of the time so I'll be providing some tips and examples.

That would be cool (Awesome vid btw). I'm having trouble getting consistant with the reload trick, failing more often than not and usually at the worst possible moment. I can clear this section with a Mattock Vanguard, but my Claymore Vanguard is having trouble. Also, is there a good simple fight to practice the Claymore reload trick? This one is a little too frantic for that.

[Kronner]

thatdude90210 wrote...

Also, is there a good simple fight to practice the Claymore reload trick? This one is a little too frantic for that.

To practice the reload trick with the Claymore, play Thane's RM and just before the bridge section, there is a weapons locker, which means unlimited ammo. So just shoot at the wall until you master the trick.
There are many other spots with weapons locker throughout the game, but that is the one I remember off the top of my head.

Modifié par Kronner, 02 avril 2011 - 06:25 .

[ashwind]

^ There is a weapon locker right after you pickup the Claymore too in the Collector's Ship (think lots of ppl have a save point there to try different weapons)

Once you are comfortable - you can immediately test in on Harby on the field 

Modifié par ashwind, 02 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[RedCaesar97]

Just downloaded the Arrival DLC last night.

Have you survived all enemy waves? NO
Have you enjoyed the fight? YES and NO

Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Soldier
Weapons used: Revenant, Viper, Scimitar, Carnifex, Avalanche
Bonus power: None

I had taken a break from ME2 for a week or so before playing the Arrival DLC, so I was little rusty. Well, that and I was never really any good with the Revenant. I had been dying a lot even before the Fight for your Life so I was frustrated going into it. And I was trying to play an aggressive style that just does not fit my Revenant Soldier playstyle very well. I should have just hugging cover and played peek-a-boo until I got used to it.

I have at least one character with each class so I'll be trying it with every single one.

As for the reload trick with the Claymore, the best place to practice is immediately after you get the weapon on the Collector Ship. There is a weapons locker right there.

[Leeroi]

If you want a moderately challenging fight where you can practice the reload trick, the one I can immediately think of is the 6 Eclipse mercs in Donovan Hawk's vault (Kasumi's loyalty mission). The game auto-saves you there and you get unlimited tries to take them out by charging head-on. It's a good fight to practice your aim and timing with the reload trick.

[Bozorgmehr]

Damn YouTube blocked music of Asari Shepard and Object Rho (US) and I hadn't tried Dominate on my Adept yet, so I figured I make another video. Dominate is a horrible power (gauntet only), completely useless against everyone carrying a gun (you only give the enemy a very strong barrier). It only works on pyros although not exactly like it normally does. Instead of engaging the enemy, the Dominated pyro will go straight for Shepard to stand guard (a little too close to be comfortable if you ask me) and they only attack enemies within range.
There can also be only one pyro in play, keeping the first one alive blocks respawn.

davidshooter wrote...

Has an Adept beaten this mission yet on insanity without using an exploit? I don't think Bozorgmehr was going to survive that mech without the stasis glitch. That mech had full shields and there were 2 engineers, an elite, and a regular guard still alive in the room and his ammo was low and his barrier was down. The only thing left to do would have been to stasis the mech again and try to run to better cover but with those four guys still alive I don't think that would have worked.

I love Bozo's videos he's a great player for sure but I'm wondering if an adept can actually really do this level on insanity.

This time I'm using Dominate bonus power (no Stasis), and I don't use medkits or heavy weapons either. It also looked like the YMIR got stuck so I decided to move to the other side of the room (not recommendable - look how fast those guards are all over me, dumb luck kept me alive) because it's easy to take out the mech when it's stuck and that doesn't always happen - YMIRs can go anywhere on this map and when they get close, you're in serious trouble.

Help can be found in the strangest of places: Asari Shepard and Pyro Joe take on Object Rho's goon squad.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Sweet video and gameplay. You've also used one of my favourite soundtracks from ME2

[swn32]

One more soldier video with a similar strategy as my earlier ones. I figured out there was no point shooting Widow in AR as it would OSOK mooks and pyros anyways and would fail to OSOK elites and engineers even with AR. Unfortunately this time I took out the YMIR quicker than I wanted to and had to deal with another .

[Leeroi]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Help can be found in the strangest of places: Asari Shepard and Pyro Joe take on Object Rho's goon squad.

I loved the annotations  And Pyro Joe was an absolute beast! I almost felt sad when you disposed of him lol. Great vid - shows what CC powers are really capable of.

[davidshooter]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^^The sweetspots are exploits, IMO. The AI just stops working when you bunker up in those spots. They aren't particularly protected spots in the conventional sense, they're just spots where the AI inexplicitly won't flank you.

I agree.  I noted earlier I'm a hypocrit.  I don't like the Reload "trick"/exploit or the Stasis bug.   However I'm perfectly happy to explot AI pathfinding.

Otherwise I'd only get about half of my classes through this ... and then only after loading & reloading way too much

What are the sweet spots? 

I found in this level pyros will come right up to you but most of the other enemies won't try much in the way of flanking no matter where you take cover.  I always head to one of those L shaped covers in the corners just because I like the view from there and I can see pyros from a ways off.

If you get to the point where sweet spots are considered exploits then an infiltrator cloaking would have to be one too since the AI freezes when you are solo and forgets it's in combat mode until you re-appear.  If you ever modded the game to play solo with an infiltrator you'll be pretty familiar with how broken the AI is when using cloak.  Out of cover enemies just stand there begging to be shot.

None of this compares to one shotting A fully shielded YMIR into it's health on insanity though since that by-passes the whole reason this fight is difficult to begin with. 

The sweet spots are generally at the L-shaped covers around the map.. anything that blocks your left flank should work. Using them can be considered an exploit because for some reason the AI hardly ever flanks right on this level. You can have your ass totally hanging out on your right and still be pretty safe as long as the AI is obstructed to your left. I consider this an exploit because it works consistently and nonsensically for all classes, whereas calling Tactical Cloak an exploit is mooted by the fact that it was clearly designed to work the way it does.

I disagree that tactical cloak is working as intended when an infiltrator is solo.  Just to be clear this issue only exists when solo, the presence of a squadmate will cause the game to continue to play normally when you are cloaked.  I aborted my solo (moded) infiltrator playthrough way back because it was too easy.  All you have to do is cloak whenever an enemy is moving between cover (and often just out of cover) and that enemy (as well as all the others) will freeze in place waiting to be shot. 

I guess it's a matter of opinion what you want to call it  but when I was playing a solo infiltrator the game felt completely broken and there is no doubt that the enemy AI isn't even playing when an infiltrator is cloaked and solo, and you can totally tell the instant that they begin playing again when you become visible. It was a major disappointment to me too as I was really looking forward to creeping around and picking people off - but all you get  is a battle field  frozen in place. 

As for cover, I'll play the level a few more times but I don't notice much flanking going on at all in that level besides the pyros no matter where you camp.  It seems like one guy will try when you first pick a spot and then you get left alone.

Modifié par davidshooter, 02 avril 2011 - 11:19 .

[Kronner]

I just did a Sentinel (Shotgun + Assault Armor) playthrough...and it was silly. So I decided to record this foolproof approach.

Strategy:

Fight in the right half of the room. Enemies will be clustered and you will get the most out of your Assault Armor.

1) Activate Assault Armor.
2) Shoot enemies.
3) Don't run unless necessary - maximize the damage from the AA's wave.
4) Let them destroy the armor = use the stun wave as much as possible.
5) When you see a Pyro, back off, and take him out with the Arc Projector (they got close to me a few times in the video though).
6) Stasis Mech.

That's it.

Video is here.

Modifié par Kronner, 02 avril 2011 - 11:15 .

[Leeroi]

That shockwave has a gigantic range Yeah, seems like that was a cakewalk Well done!

Modifié par Leeroi, 02 avril 2011 - 11:09 .

[Bozorgmehr]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Sweet video and gameplay. You've also used one of my favourite soundtracks from ME2

Thanks, I played it safe this time - ME2 music will not be blocked and there's plenty of good music to choose from.

swn32 wrote...

One more soldier video with a similar strategy as my earlier ones. I figured out there was no point shooting Widow in AR as it would OSOK mooks and pyros anyways and would fail to OSOK elites and engineers even with AR. Unfortunately this time I took out the YMIR quicker than I wanted to and had to deal with another [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie].

Amazing Widow shots, heads, pyros, YMIRs. I also loved that multi-kill GPS shot - great video!

Leeroi wrote...

I loved the annotations  And Pyro Joe was an absolute beast! I almost felt sad when you disposed of him lol. Great vid - shows what CC powers are really capable of.

You feel less sorry when Joe burned your ass a couple of times (Shep miss-fired) Down at the first L-shaped cover he will be standing almost right next to you, moving up to the next L-shape provides enough space to get Joe (and Shep) through the fight. And he can do some serious damage with his flamethrower - Joe took down the YMIR's armor like it was nothing at all!

I only don't understand why Dominate is ineffective against everyone else, the other guys just get back up again and start shooting you like nothing happened at all. Only pyros play ball and they're quite good at it.

[davidshooter]

Bozorgmehr wrote...



Help can be found in the strangest of places: Asari Shepard and Pyro Joe take on Object Rho's goon squad.

This is fantastic.

[naledgeborn]

Sorry No Vid

Have you survived all enemy waves? YES
Have you enjoyed the fight? YES

Difficulty level: Insanity
Shepard's class: Soldier (Shock Troop)
Weapons used: Revenant/Viper/Arc Projector
Bonus power: None

What strategy have you used?
Bunker down at the L shaped couches. Rip through shields with Arc Projector. Gun down mooks with Revenant. Snipe Lt. Engineers/Elites with Viper. Pick off everything before engaging YMIR Mech. One on one with Mech is easy.

I enjoyed the fight. Especially when one of the mooks said "Shepard won't go down!"

[horangi88]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

horangi88 wrote...

For the YMIR, remember that Energy Drain refills your shields every time you cast it. I charged up a GPS shot, popped out of cover, shot until my shields went down, cast ED (shields get re-filled) and kept shooting until shields dropped again and then took cover (charging another GPS shot and recovering shields).

You cannot charge the GPS while in cover, and leaving cover to charge it will get you killed (or very close to it) before its even fully charged. Energy Drain helps, but only a little - your shield will still be blown off in 0.x seconds.

If you can time it with the rocket/bullet cycle of the YMIR you can get off a lot of shots and Energy Drains.

The gauntlet YMIR (unlike his pals) doesn't use its missiles often, it fires its machine gun almost the entire time (and that hurts).

For the YMIR's armor, Heavy Warp and the Carnifex. You do have to time it with the rocket/bullet cycle and maybe you'll have fall back to a new position if it gets too close (I didn't have to, the YMIR walked to the opposite side of the glass divider I took cover behind). If you move, apply medigel to recover your shields if needed. Hope this makes sense.

Unless the YMIR got stuck somewhere, it will be all over you well before you've dropped its shield, and those L shaped spots (on the left) do not provide cover when YMIR gets close. The limited use of rockets means Shep will lose his/her (full) barrier every time (s)he uses Warp (and you'll need a dozen (Heavy Warps) to strip its armor). 

Moving around is extremely dangerous: By getting up you've lost your shield and you won't get far without medkits. More importantly, enemies will immediately flank you (very fast). They aggressively move on you (and will get very close, regardless of your (new) position. After they've done that, they'll back off to their usual (medium range) positions (assuming you've survived the assault).

Your strategy might work if the YMIR can't reach you, but if it doesn't get stuck somewhere you're basically doomed. The only way I managed to deal with a 'charging' YMIR is by using Stasis.

P.S. I'm not trying to ridicule your strategy but I've had different experiences - a more specific description might help, or better, a video. It would be really helpful if there's a spot that shields you from the YMIR's attacks.

You CAN charge the GPS in cover, just turn the camera to face away from cover. You stay crouched but are able to charge up. You are a seasoned ME2 master, how did this trick slip past you? 

As far as my cover spot goes, starting the first wave with my back to Object Rho, I ran forward and took cover behind the left pillar connected to the wall by a low pane of glass. Good cover from three sides and enemies walk counter-clockwise around Object Rho towards you. The YMIR walked up to the glass on my left and stayed there. Most of its armor was down by that point (I think less than 12 warps!) so if it had kept coming it wouldn't have been a problem. Also, the YMIR staggered once me with a rocket so I know that they shoot them, I'm not sure what you guys are talking about.

It IS easier to take out the last wave with the arc projector.  The mooks get wasted as you take down the YMIR's shields which is nice, but either ways is doable without stasis. I've done it (a Heavy Warp Ammo/Arc-Projector build and an Heavy Energy Drain build). I'm on an XBOX so no vids, sorry gang. The ironic thing is that  I decided to fire up a couple of Adept saves after watching your vid. You are an Adept pimp. No need to get all pissy with me bro.

Peace

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

I just did a Sentinel (Shotgun + Assault Armor) playthrough...and it was silly. So I decided to record this foolproof approach.

Strategy:

Fight in the right half of the room. Enemies will be clustered and you will get the most out of your Assault Armor.

1) Activate Assault Armor.
2) Shoot enemies.
3) Don't run unless necessary - maximize the damage from the AA's wave.
4) Let them destroy the armor = use the stun wave as much as possible.
5) When you see a Pyro, back off, and take him out with the Arc Projector (they got close to me a few times in the video though).
6) Stasis Mech.

That's it.

Video is here.

Very nice! Looks like the right-side is the best side for non-vanguard CQC fighting - I definitely give that another try with Adept. What about a Revy Soldier? Could be fun out there.

I'm only dissapointed with Combat Drones and Cloak; drones don't work like they normally do and Cloak messes with reinforcements (at least that's how it looks to me) - when Shep's Cloacked they sometimes don't jump down and keep standing there doing nothing.

davidshooter wrote...

This is fantastic.

Thanks