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[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

iakus wrote...

Quole wrote...

WAIT. The VS has fans?

Suprisingly, yes.  Even ordinary people who excel at their jobs, deal with their own problems rather than have Shepard handle it for them, and aren't interstellar bad****es have fans

I dont believe you.

yeah not everyone has to go "Shepard, please Save me and solve all of m problems all the time!" Some peolpe actually solve their own problems and don't need Shepard to tell them how to live or use her as a sounding board for their talks of genocide and hate for synthetics. They're called human squadmates and they're good looking too.

No, instead Ashley hates all non-humans. I can see how thats a big upgrade from hating synthetics (which she probably hates anyway). If you ask me, the VS is the worst character in the series.... besides jacob.

Modifié par Quole, 30 mars 2011 - 04:48 .

[GreenDragon37]

iakus wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

This entire issue is a byproduct of one single formula: Alien = Cool and Awesome (ergo has fans), Human = Boring and Dull (ergo has NO fans).

Unfortunately, that's what it seems like to me, and I hope BioWare realizes just how WRONG that frame of mind is.

I see Humans everyday. It's not as cool as interacting with the Aliens in the ME Universe. Besides, like I've said earlier, you people expected too much from this DLC.

I bet when BioWare brings the VS to the forefront in ME3, you people will be praising the ground BioWare stands on.

Or saying "About frakking time"

Like I said, it's not just about this dlc.  It's about all the dlcs, and the game itself, and the terrible treatment these characters received when not being outright ignored..  Now that we know there is absolutely no hope of it being rectified in ME 2...it's frustrating, let's put it like that.

Understandable. But Boycotting ME3 over it is a little... rediculous.

[Fiery Phoenix]

iakus wrote...

Quole wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

This entire issue is a byproduct of one single formula: Alien = Cool and Awesome (ergo has fans), Human = Boring and Dull (ergo has NO fans).

Unfortunately, that's what it seems like to me, and I hope BioWare realizes just how WRONG that frame of mind is.

no it isnt.

True.

If you are a genetically engineered hottie, a superbiotic, or have spooooky glowing eyes, you can be a cool human

Then I honestly I can't think of any other reason, other than maybe story plans. It just seems like they COULD have added the VS to Arrival and it would have played out much better. Like the opportunity was just hanging in the air for them.

[KiloSierra149]

omgpanic wrote...

I never liked Ashley because she was racist, and she wanted to just kill Wrex. Kaiden was so bland. Liara was a lot more interesting than both.

She's not racist. She's suspicious with good reason. Her and Kaiden are the most dynamic and responsive characters in the first game. Liara was "interesting" because she was exotic with a completely different culture behind her. Put that personality on a human, you'd be caling her bland.

[Iakus]

jeweledleah wrote...

yep.  we could even deal with horizon despite it being an incredibly blatant attempt to get people to move on to new love interests (and ended up inspiring a lot of shallow hate in a process), if there was something, anything at all.  sure, if you romance them you get a non commital letter.  but what about my renegade femshep who lost her best bud and partner in crime, Ashley?  what about my mensheps who lost their best friend, Kaidan?  they got nothing, BUT horizon.

and here we are, talking to hackett who found time to come to Normandy in PERSON and I understand that we're talking about something incredibly important her and of an enormous magnitute (a loss of entire system)  but we can ask him so  many different questions...but one.  we cannot even ask him to pass the message along.  there is no mention, nothing.

no shadow broker dossier - I mean, that guy was watching keepers and minor mercs on Omega, he has information on Anderson and Hacket himself, but nothing on VS, who happens to be one of the heroes of the cittadel and a classified (and therefor potentialy important to watch) operative?  if shadow broker can get their hands on Hackets correspondence and Anderson movements, heck he knows whom TIM is sleeping with, when and how many cigars he smokes a day, and yet no info on VS?  Liara mentions every single LI but the only mention VS gets, is if you take one specific renegade conversation option and even then, its rubbing the Horizon in.

with all of the above, it gets more and more difficult to beleive that developrs are not just writing VS out.  And before anyone says anything about ability to kill your ME2 LI's - its much easier to save them then to kill them, you get cuddling on demand, and there are no other indications that developers might have nefarious plans for them.

so yeah... VS fans are not particularely happy right now.  can you blame us?

A second mature, concise explanation for the frustration VS fans are feeling.  I hope the developers are paying attention here.

[wicked117]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

This entire issue is a byproduct of one single formula: Alien = Cool and Awesome (ergo has fans), Human = Boring and Dull (ergo has NO fans).

Unfortunately, that's what it seems like to me, and I hope BioWare realizes just how WRONG that frame of mind is.

I see Humans everyday. It's not as cool as interacting with the Aliens in the ME Universe. Besides, like I've said earlier, you people expected too much from this DLC.

I bet when BioWare brings the VS to the forefront in ME3, you people will be praising the ground BioWare stands on.

This is what happened with Liara. B4 sotsb she had a crappy cameo too and her fans didn't like it and said so. After lotsb they sang praises. Can't blame people for voicing their opinions.

[Zubie]

Quole wrote...

No, instead Ashley hates all non-humans. 

Really? I am quite positive I saw her argue with Shepard in favor of saving the Council. What game are you playing?

[Iakus]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Then I honestly I can't think of any other reason, other than maybe story plans. It just seems like they COULD have added the VS to Arrival and it would have played out much better. Like the opportunity was just hanging in the air for them.

I think it comes down to Vanilla Mortal=boring.

Even Shepard had to get turned into a cyborg killing machine to reach the awesomeness threshold required to be in ME 2

[Quole]

easygame88 wrote...

Quole wrote...

No, instead Ashley hates all non-humans. 

Really? I am quite positive I saw her argue with Shepard in favor of saving the Council. What game are you playing?

Hmmm, well Ashley was dead in my playthrough so I had no idea she did that. However the rest of the game, she makes it perfectly clear that she dislikes non-humans.

[James2912]

I agree with Fiery Pheonix. A lot of people on these forums are very predictable Alien=good
Human=bad. Put Jacobs character into a Drell and he would have a steady base of supporters. If TIM was an alien people would love him. If Ashley were a quarian people would writing love ballads in her honor!

[ADLegend21]

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

iakus wrote...

Quole wrote...

WAIT. The VS has fans?

Suprisingly, yes.  Even ordinary people who excel at their jobs, deal with their own problems rather than have Shepard handle it for them, and aren't interstellar bad****es have fans

I dont believe you.

yeah not everyone has to go "Shepard, please Save me and solve all of m problems all the time!" Some peolpe actually solve their own problems and don't need Shepard to tell them how to live or use her as a sounding board for their talks of genocide and hate for synthetics. They're called human squadmates and they're good looking too.

No, instead Ashley hates all non-humans. I can see how thats a big upgrade from hating synthetics (which she probably hates anyway). If you ask me, the VS is the worst character in the series.... besides jacob.

really? Becuase she and Wrex get along fine in the elvators, her and Garrus too, they talk very cordially in those elevators. but Oh no she's worried that they might be spies AUTOMATIC RACISM!!!!! But a certain purple clad person ACTIVELY spouts hate speech about a synthetic life form and that's okay.

I agree with Fiery Phoneix that Alien=Cool Human= not cool. It's why Kaidan, Ash, Miranda, Jack, and Jacobhave ahters like Quole here.

[ADLegend21]

James2912 wrote...

I agree with Fiery Pheonix. A lot of people on these forums are very predictable Alien=good
Human=bad. Put Jacobs character into a Drell and he would have a steady base of supporters. If TIM was an alien people would love him. If Ashley were a quarian people would writing love ballads in her honor!

All of this.

[GreenDragon37]

wicked117 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

This entire issue is a byproduct of one single formula: Alien = Cool and Awesome (ergo has fans), Human = Boring and Dull (ergo has NO fans).

Unfortunately, that's what it seems like to me, and I hope BioWare realizes just how WRONG that frame of mind is.

I see Humans everyday. It's not as cool as interacting with the Aliens in the ME Universe. Besides, like I've said earlier, you people expected too much from this DLC.

I bet when BioWare brings the VS to the forefront in ME3, you people will be praising the ground BioWare stands on.

This is what happened with Liara. B4 sotsb she had a crappy cameo too and her fans didn't like it and said so. After lotsb they sang praises. Can't blame people for voicing their opinions.

Truth be told, I was one of those people.

[Zubie]

Quole wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Quole wrote...

No, instead Ashley hates all non-humans. 

Really? I am quite positive I saw her argue with Shepard in favor of saving the Council. What game are you playing?

Hmmm, well Ashley was dead in my playthrough so I had no idea she did that. However the rest of the game, she makes it perfectly clear that she dislikes non-humans.

If you actually did speak to her you would know she doesn't "dislike" them (such a strong word), but also why she behaves this way. Not to mention the fact that depending on your dialogue choices you could shift her personality to be more pro-alien. Yay for character development.

[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

iakus wrote...

Quole wrote...

WAIT. The VS has fans?

Suprisingly, yes.  Even ordinary people who excel at their jobs, deal with their own problems rather than have Shepard handle it for them, and aren't interstellar bad****es have fans

I dont believe you.

yeah not everyone has to go "Shepard, please Save me and solve all of m problems all the time!" Some peolpe actually solve their own problems and don't need Shepard to tell them how to live or use her as a sounding board for their talks of genocide and hate for synthetics. They're called human squadmates and they're good looking too.

No, instead Ashley hates all non-humans. I can see how thats a big upgrade from hating synthetics (which she probably hates anyway). If you ask me, the VS is the worst character in the series.... besides jacob.

really? Becuase she and Wrex get along fine in the elvators, her and Garrus too, they talk very cordially in those elevators. but Oh no she's worried that they might be spies AUTOMATIC RACISM!!!!! But a certain purple clad person ACTIVELY spouts hate speech about a synthetic life form and that's okay.

I agree with Fiery Phoneix that Alien=Cool Human= not cool. It's why Kaidan, Ash, Miranda, Jack, and Jacobhave ahters like Quole here.

I really didnt want to get OT here but...

Everyone hated the geth. EVERYONE. Tali was no exception. Remember, you only find out about Legion near the end of the game, so the whole hereitc/true geth issue was never even known to anyone.

[GreenDragon37]

James2912 wrote...

I agree with Fiery Pheonix. A lot of people on these forums are very predictable Alien=good
Human=bad. Put Jacobs character into a Drell and he would have a steady base of supporters. If TIM was an alien people would love him. If Ashley were a quarian people would writing love ballads in her honor!

What are you talking about? There's alot of Humans I love and hate. Just like how there are a lot of aliens I love and hate. It doesn't matter if it's an Alien or a Human, it all depends on the character. Enough of these sweeping generalizations.

[Zubie]

mrsph wrote...

easygame88 wrote...
Really? I am quite positive I saw her argue with Shepard in favor of saving the Council. What game are you playing?

This is dependent on character slots.



I've had Kaidan tell me to kill the Council.

It does but it also heavily depends on whether you made Garrus or Ashley more "paragon", assuming you bring them along at that part.

[FlyinElk212]

Eeeeehhhh...

While VS might've worked here (maybe Hackett enlisted you AND VS for this mish?), I'm personally in favor of VS's alliance being shaky at the beginning of ME3. If we kissed and made up with them in Arrival, then we wouldn't have any past crew members that we need to really fight hard to get back on our side, you know?

Besides, I believe this way, the VS's character potential (the possibility of becoming an antagonist) is much greater.

[Iakus]

mrsph wrote...

easygame88 wrote...
Really? I am quite positive I saw her argue with Shepard in favor of saving the Council. What game are you playing?

This is dependent on character slots.

I've had Kaidan tell me to kill the Council.

That's because over the course of the game, you can "paragon" Ashley and teach her to trust aliens more, or "renegade" Kaidan, making him more supicious of aliens.  That gives them different possible responses to the situation.

Modifié par iakus, 30 mars 2011 - 05:02 .

[ADLegend21]

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

iakus wrote...

Quole wrote...

WAIT. The VS has fans?

Suprisingly, yes.  Even ordinary people who excel at their jobs, deal with their own problems rather than have Shepard handle it for them, and aren't interstellar bad****es have fans

I dont believe you.

yeah not everyone has to go "Shepard, please Save me and solve all of m problems all the time!" Some peolpe actually solve their own problems and don't need Shepard to tell them how to live or use her as a sounding board for their talks of genocide and hate for synthetics. They're called human squadmates and they're good looking too.

No, instead Ashley hates all non-humans. I can see how thats a big upgrade from hating synthetics (which she probably hates anyway). If you ask me, the VS is the worst character in the series.... besides jacob.

really? Becuase she and Wrex get along fine in the elvators, her and Garrus too, they talk very cordially in those elevators. but Oh no she's worried that they might be spies AUTOMATIC RACISM!!!!! But a certain purple clad person ACTIVELY spouts hate speech about a synthetic life form and that's okay.

I agree with Fiery Phoneix that Alien=Cool Human= not cool. It's why Kaidan, Ash, Miranda, Jack, and Jacobhave ahters like Quole here.

I really didnt want to get OT here but...

Everyone hated the geth. EVERYONE. Tali was no exception. Remember, you only find out about Legion near the end of the game, so the whole hereitc/true geth issue was never even known to anyone.

Um Shepard has a dialogue choice where she tells Tali she's wrong, but she doesn't listen. Ashley and Kaidan however, they're open to contrusctive criticism.

[James2912]

Also most of the "aliens" in ME are just humans with weird bodies. They act like humans they feel like humans and they have prejudices like humans.

[Jonathan Shepard]

They are, if you let the Reapers come and watch the cutscene.

[jeweledleah]

mrsph wrote...

easygame88 wrote...
Really? I am quite positive I saw her argue with Shepard in favor of saving the Council. What game are you playing?

This is dependent on character slots.

I've had Kaidan tell me to kill the Council.

did you renegade him?  becasue I had him and Liara on one of the play throughs and Liara told me to kill the council while he argued for saving it.  unless renegaded Kaidan will always be pro-council over every other ME1 squadmate, yes even aliens

as for Tali - when she first told me about Geth and what quarians did in ME1, I'll be honest, I felt sympathy for the Geth.  no wonder they turned to Saren and Reapers, their own creators tried to exterminate them, why would they want to trust organic beings exactly?

[Iakus]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

They are, if you let the Reapers come and watch the cutscene.

I guess they were telling the truth then, the VS was not forgotten