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So disappointed, I might actually stop playing.


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#51
boba1974

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Ninjaphrog wrote...

F-C wrote...

mdtroutie wrote...


Rogues are equally pointless. They cant even unlock chests until they hit a decent level. What's the point in that? 



maybe you should read the thread where the guy shows you how rogues are the best damage in the game.

bioware cant fix stupid.


Rogues are not really the best damage at all...quickest, but not best.
140 average damage per swing sound decent?


Is this a joke?

The faster the damage, the higher the damage per second, thus the highest total damage. It's a pretty simple concept.

Rogues are the highest damage class in the game. They don't do the most with each hit, but per fight (especially on the fights that really count) they do the most total, which is what matters.

#52
catofnine

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Basically, the fighers are ineffective tanks against groups unless you have a dedicated healer, but then now you have a mage taken away from offensive spells.

It seems like mages rule here. Unless your team is overly stacked with mages you don't have a chance.

Rogues are equally pointless. They cant even unlock chests until they hit a decent level. What's the point in that?


I'm going to have to disagree about those three points.  I'm running a double rogue group (pc + Leliana), Alistair as tank and Wynne as healer/support.   I don't use cone of cold, force field or whatever the common mage tactic the kids are using.  Morrigan tends the stew pot at camp.   Wynne only has the dps spells she came with when I got her.  The only AoE dps I ever use and only against multiple high armor targets are the flask bombs that my rogue makes. 



My suggestions would be:
1.  Never allow the mobs to dictate the battlefield if you can help it.  You can pull, line of sight their ranged, make them come to you.  You have to take away their advantages.   If I cannot make line of sight pulls, I have Wynne disrupt the ranged with earthquake. 

2. Learn to pick out and eliminate the most dangerous target(s) first.  In this game I usually find them to be enemy mages.  I position my rogue to intercept/or behind the mage, have my tank make the pull and my rogue makes sure that mage is well on its way to a long dirt nap before it gets off a single spell.  Second to that are sword and board mobs.  A pack of them will chain stun your tank(s) from full health to dead.   I coped with that by making careful pulls, ccing what I can, and even letting the aggro run loose a little bit.   If my tank gains aggro too soon in those pulls, he gets dropped like a rock.  Real threats get picked out and focus fired by my guys very quickly.   Pause function lets you assess what you've got in the pull, make use of it.

As an aside just because a mage is a healer doesn't mean all they do is cast heals.  Next to my rogue, the person I micromanage the most is Wynne.  In between her healing cooldowns, she deals out offensive and defensive buffs, rolls out some earthquakes and stonefists if necessary, cc with paralyzing glyph and assists on my rogue's target with staff dps (lol, hey every bit helps) and arcane bolt if needed.  I mostly pick up healing spells on her, but she is always doing something.  The same goes for the rest of my party members.  I do micromanage the hell out of my party sometimes, but they are rarely ever idle and things die quickly.

It would help if the game has a combat log so you can see what's wrecking you, but since it doesn't you do have to pay attention to the scrolling text above mobs' heads.  When you see a pack of red circles heading for you, yes they're all gonna die...but you have to learn to dictate when.  Not all red circles have the same priority.  If you're getting overwhelmed quickly and often, you have to find ways
of controlling the incoming damage while directing yours or you'll get
continously rolled in this game.

While you are mostly outnumbered in this game, unless you are terribly
asleep at the wheel you should almost never be outgunned.  The sum of your
group's abilities + your brain are always greater than that of the mobs you're
fighting.

Good luck!

#53
Mr_Murder_Machine

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Erm... I use Wynn for healing, Blood [my mabari hound] for his dread howl, and alternate between Alistar, Sten and Shale... that's with my Rogue...

#54
Mr_Murder_Machine

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catofnine wrote...


Basically, the fighers are ineffective tanks against groups unless you have a dedicated healer, but then now you have a mage taken away from offensive spells.

It seems like mages rule here. Unless your team is overly stacked with mages you don't have a chance.

Rogues are equally pointless. They cant even unlock chests until they hit a decent level. What's the point in that?


I'm going to have to disagree about those three points.  I'm running a double rogue group (pc + Leliana), Alistair as tank and Wynne as healer/support.   I don't use cone of cold, force field or whatever the common mage tactic the kids are using.  Morrigan tends the stew pot at camp.   Wynne only has the dps spells she came with when I got her.  The only AoE dps I ever use and only against multiple high armor targets are the flask bombs that my rogue makes. 



My suggestions would be:
1.  Never allow the mobs to dictate the battlefield if you can help it.  You can pull, line of sight their ranged, make them come to you.  You have to take away their advantages.   If I cannot make line of sight pulls, I have Wynne disrupt the ranged with earthquake. 

2. Learn to pick out and eliminate the most dangerous target(s) first.  In this game I usually find them to be enemy mages.  I position my rogue to intercept/or behind the mage, have my tank make the pull and my rogue makes sure that mage is well on its way to a long dirt nap before it gets off a single spell.  Second to that are sword and board mobs.  A pack of them will chain stun your tank(s) from full health to dead.   I coped with that by making careful pulls, ccing what I can, and even letting the aggro run loose a little bit.   If my tank gains aggro too soon in those pulls, he gets dropped like a rock.  Real threats get picked out and focus fired by my guys very quickly.   Pause function lets you assess what you've got in the pull, make use of it.

As an aside just because a mage is a healer doesn't mean all they do is cast heals.  Next to my rogue, the person I micromanage the most is Wynne.  In between her healing cooldowns, she deals out offensive and defensive buffs, rolls out some earthquakes and stonefists if necessary, cc with paralyzing glyph and assists on my rogue's target with staff dps (lol, hey every bit helps) and arcane bolt if needed.  I mostly pick up healing spells on her, but she is always doing something.  The same goes for the rest of my party members.  I do micromanage the hell out of my party sometimes, but they are rarely ever idle and things die quickly.

It would help if the game has a combat log so you can see what's wrecking you, but since it doesn't you do have to pay attention to the scrolling text above mobs' heads.  When you see a pack of red circles heading for you, yes they're all gonna die...but you have to learn to dictate when.  Not all red circles have the same priority.  If you're getting overwhelmed quickly and often, you have to find ways
of controlling the incoming damage while directing yours or you'll get
continously rolled in this game.

While you are mostly outnumbered in this game, unless you are terribly
asleep at the wheel you should almost never be outgunned.  The sum of your
group's abilities + your brain are always greater than that of the mobs you're
fighting.

Good luck!


:innocent:


Brilliant... absolutely brilliant.

#55
Rishavs

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Shadow_Viper wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Shadow_Viper wrote...

Stop playing or don't, the choice is your's.

However, neither choice requires running to the forums whining.


Or they could do without your incessant yelling at people to stfu with their valid complaints. If the thread isn't discussing a part of the game you want to discuss, DONT GO IN THE THREAD.

To the OP: I had the same problem. It wasn't a matter that I couldn't beat the game but that if I had persisted it wouldn't have been satisfying. I managed to end up with no Mages in a Mage-dependant game, and I wasn't about to chug potions to defeat an ancient evil.

My solution I'd offer to you at the moment, at least until mods or patches come out, is to re-roll as a Mage. I'm able to play through the story in a suitable manner (had trouble on easy with warrior, now breezing through the game on hard) without countless reloads and potion-chugging. I even get to choose skills and companions I want to play with, outside of a min-maxing perspective.


There's no need to be overdramatic.

They're stating their opinions and observations, I'm stating mine. Simple as that.

except that the OP is stating his oipinion of the game. you know, what the forum is for. You instead are giving an opinion on the OP. and its hardly contructive.

btw, OP you really dont have a choice other than taking a mage. Rogues are good only at high levels. Warriors useless throughout other than being meatshields.

#56
daem3an

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mdtroutie wrote...

Basically, the fighers are ineffective tanks against groups unless you have a dedicated healer, but then now you have a mage taken away from offensive spells.

It seems like mages rule here. Unless your team is overly stacked with mages you don't have a chance.

Rogues are equally pointless. They cant even unlock chests until they hit a decent level. What's the point in that?

I am disappointed that I need to start the whole game over and play as a mage.

I find people always get more helpful answers when they simply ask for advice instead of threatening to quit the game because they find it difficult, like spoiled little children. You'll just attract more of the people who only post to call other people whiners, because frankly, that's what it sounds like.

Fighters are fine, just not invulnerable to constant punishment. There are tactics, talents and cc abilities that can prevent groups from flanking and overwhelming. Rogues can be the deadliest class and can also be very hard to hit. Lockpicking skill is based on cunning, not level. I'm not playing with a dedicated healer and the difficulty on hard is perfectly manageable, and not because I'm a whiz at these kinds of games or run around spamming potions and kiting every mob until I kill them one by one. Not that there's a rule against that, it just isn't the only way to succeed.

The game is far from impossible. Lots of people have completed the game on all difficulty levels, with every imaginable type of party. I agree, the game is probably very difficult if you haven't figured out the dynamics. It took me a little while to get the hang of it. My advice is build the party you want to play, but take the time to understand how to play them.

There are lots of threads with tons of great advice on this forum, including this one, just have a look around. As others have said, maximize your damage output and your defensive capabilities. Use the environment, and most importantly, don't let the enemy dictate the fight on their terms. Take some time to really understand why you're dying and how to beat different situations. If you don't have the patience for that, that's fine with me, but I wouldn't expect anyone to have patience with you either if that's the case. If you have a specific question, I'll be glad to answer if I can.

edit: catofnine said it perfectly.

Modifié par daem3an, 18 novembre 2009 - 04:56 .


#57
whoosi

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Archie591 wrote... You must be a horrible player...



I finished the game on Normal, using me as a Warrior with shield/sword, Morrigan as a offensive spell mage, Lelianna as a ranged rogue and Alistair also as a Warrior with shield/sword.

Some fights were tough but only until I thought up an appropriate battle plan for the given situation.



Are people really so bad at this game? Or has years of low difficulty games fried everyone's sense of tactics and strategy?



Personally this game is a bit easy. I'm playing on Hard now, and it still isn't all that hard. I've heart people making hardcore mods in order to get any real challenge out of the game.



This all makes me wonder if people who complain about the game have the strategical and tactical thinking capability of a 5 year old...

 

 I tend to agree with the strategy part ...if you take the time to look at a sitution and plan things out most fights are not that bad...some can be overwhelming but good planning can help you through it.