81 réponses à ce sujet

[Draguling]

Morrigan is annoying. I think to many teenagers stare blind on the fact that she is a strong woman with little clothing.

Modifié par Draguling, 18 novembre 2009 - 04:45 .

[marshalleck]

Cammy2709 wrote...

I definitely agree. Which is why I enjoy these sorts of threads so much. Films provoke emotions strongly. Books do it too. Heh, Music probably does it aswell. It's about time games do it. I know there have been more and more story/emotion orientated games being released but they are definitely starting to raise the bar. Makes me proud to be a gamer.

Well not so much in this thread specifically, but I've recognized people saying or having reactions that are common after having been dumped. Lashing out angrily calling her a heartless ****, vowing to follow her to the end of the earth, etc. etc.

[Cedario]

Question. Has anyone thought of or found out who Morrigan' dad might be?

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Taleroth wrote...

Damotta wrote...

 whiney, ****y attitude.

Do people just love picking random insulting adjectives to throw around?  There was nothing whiney about Morrigan.  ****y you can claim, but whiney is just daft.

Erm, I disagree.
She did nothing but whine when the serious aspects of the relationship kick in. You ask her why she refuses to share her bed and she whines about being dependent, she whines about having these feelings she doesn't know what to do with, and she whines when you refuse to let her off the hook.

[Cedario]

Sync, your on the right track. That is why she is attractive to some and not so likeable to others. But it also why she could easily manipulate a situation. Hence she comes up with this Ritual to bear an "old God" or whatever. Crazy.

[tkaz85]

Taleroth wrote...

If there's not a direct continuation where my Mage can find her again, then I'll continue viewing it as a senseless kick in the balls.

Aspects of the game's promotion try to make you think this game is dark.  The scene with Jory and Duncan might make it seem that you face some hart decisions. But ultimately, the game is not dark and it does not face you with any serious moral dilemmas. There is a true ideal solution to most situations, except Dwarf stuff, and that's not going to matter to most players. You can save the mother, father, and child, end the curse, avoid hurting any innocents, resulting in peace throughout the land, you don't even have to sacrifice your life at the end of it all,... but then when you try to get the girl, this girl, you get a kick in the nuts.  You can even melt her ice cold heart and make a friendship or love that is cherished by both.  But, still. WHAM.  Right in the cherrypicker.

Some serious mixed message nonsense there.

I'm surprised that you think the game doesn't offer any moral dilemmas.  I will agree that usually there is a choice between "good" and "evil", but I don't think that is the real dilemma.  The real moral dilemma becomes "is the good choice the right choice?"  For example, at the Anvil of the Void the "good" choice is to destroy the Anvil to prevent any more people being sacrificed to it.  Is being "good" worth not having golems to use against the darkspawn?  For non-Dwarf stuff, is waiting for the mages worth the risk that Connor will continue creating havoc?  Is killing the werewolves/ending the curse better in the long run than having the werewolves fighting by your side?  In DA "good" and "evil" are not only relative, but simply different paths to the same destination.

[Cedario]

Yeah, Flem has gone some weird stuff going on and it definitely spills out on Morrigan. Think the Possesion Robe Morrigan gets when you kill Flemeth for the companion quest. But even more so, ask yourself, "well who was Morrigan's Dad?"

[Damotta]

Ha... here's the word that came to mind almost ever time I heard Mirrigan speak. "Shut your bloody mouth you Harpy."

[marshalleck]

I don't think Morrigan could possess the body of a child inhabited by the soul of an Old God even if she wanted to. She states "some things are worth preserving." I think she truly believes that saving one of the primal Old Gods from destruction (i.e. death of the archdemon) is worth pursuing at the cost of losing everything else.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 novembre 2009 - 05:12 .

[Taleroth]

Syncrosonix wrote...

i think it may be due to wanting to pull a flemeth later on in the child's life. her soul fused with that of an old god would be something more powerful than flemeth could have ever imagined.

By all accounts, such an attempt at fusing simply destroys both souls.  Y'know, what kills Grey Wardens.

[Cedario]

Good stuff Marshal, I guess for me I am thinking Morrigan, even after Flemeth's death is somehow controled or influenced by her, hence the fact you pick a piece of gear at the time of Flemeth's death called the "Robe of Possesion" only useable by Morrigan.

[Malsumis]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Erm, I disagree.
She did nothing but whine when the serious aspects of the relationship kick in. You ask her why she refuses to share her bed and she whines about being dependent, she whines about having these feelings she doesn't know what to do with, and she whines when you refuse to let her off the hook.

Yes because we all want happy rainbow romances where the character just can't live without the PC. Staring at us while we sleep and commenting on are pretty eyelashes.<_<

I guess in the end it comes down to taste, I personally think it's the best romance/fling there has been in a Bio game. But then I don't feel screwed over, her actions allow the PC to live, I can't think of anything better then that. Yes she got what she wanted but so did my PC. Had the bio writing team made her all lovey dovey ' I want to spend the rest of my life with you' I would of been extremely disappointed. Then projectile vomited.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Malsumis wrote...

Yes because we all want happy rainbow romances where the character just can't live without the PC. Staring at us while we sleep and commenting on are pretty eyelashes.<_<

I guess in the end it comes down to taste, I personally think it's the best romance/fling there has been in a Bio game. But then I don't feel screwed over, her actions allow the PC to live, I can't think of anything better then that. Yes she got what she wanted but so did my PC. Had the bio writing team made her all lovey dovey ' I want to spend the rest of my life with you' I would of been extremely disappointed. Then projectile vomited.

Not sure how this has to do with what I said. I wasn't commenting on the quality of the romance with my comment about her whining. I was merely saying that she does, indeed, whine.

[TuringPoint]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Hmm, I'm confused. When did she deal with this maturely? 

Eh... I guess there are different ways to define what's mature.  I don't think she's very mature.  By my definition, it was mature of her to recognize she and the PC needed to go their separate ways eventually, and that's about it.  The others, like Leliana and even more with Alistair, didn't seem to consider that as a possibility.  Zevran did, and he was actually pretty friendly.  Quite frankly, Wynne had the best and most mature grasp of romance of anyone in the game.

I dunno.  Morrigan's just the sort of person who doesn't connect very well.  That's not her purpose.  I don't understand why anyone is confused or upset by her leaving at the end.

It may sound strange, but despite seeing that she is a ****, I kind of get her.  She's not unworthy of affectionate attention just because she's not overflowing with it herself - that's my opinion.

Modifié par Alocormin, 18 novembre 2009 - 05:30 .

[marshalleck]

Malsumis wrote...

Yes because we all want happy rainbow
romances where the character just can't live without the PC. Staring at
us while we sleep and commenting on are pretty eyelashes.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

I
guess in the end it comes down to taste, I personally think it's the
best romance/fling there has been in a Bio game. But then I don't feel
screwed over, her actions allow the PC to live, I can't think of
anything better then that. Yes she got what she wanted but so did my
PC. Had the bio writing team made her all lovey dovey ' I want to spend
the rest of my life with you' I would of been extremely disappointed.
Then projectile vomited.

Heh, seriously. Leliana the ditzy cheerleader exists for a reason. A distraction for everyone that can't grasp the depth of Morrigan's character--romanced or not. She's a sweet enough girl I guess, but come on.

Yeah yeah, trollish post.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 novembre 2009 - 05:30 .

[Cedario]

What is funny about Lel's is I see that "ditzy thing too" but part of the discussion with her leads you into her past where she tells you about her life as a Minstrel/Bard. So not only is she a Rogue character, but an entertainer as well. She could be very skilled at making you thing one thing but being something else.

[TuringPoint]

Leliana is a deep person. She appreciates, seeks, and serves beauty wherever she can, which I really, really profoundly appreciate.

I've heard about what cheerleaders are actually like. They tend to be more cynical than Leliana is.

I think it's awesome that their is no need to redeem Morrigan.  She is who she is and she's not changing.  That's not to say anyone else should be like that though - it's definitely a cold way to live, but not inhuman or heartless.

Modifié par Alocormin, 18 novembre 2009 - 05:43 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Alocormin wrote...

It may sound strange, but despite seeing that she is a ****, I kind of get her.  She's not unworthy of affectionate attention just because she's not overflowing with it herself - that's my opinion.

Don't get me wrong; I "get" her. She's not hard to understand.

What I don't get is how some people have said her romance is really emotional, sad, or otherwise powerful. The only power it held in my eyes was that of a joke. She obviously didn't care too much about the PC. She let her fears get the best of her and she panicked and left. That was more than obviously going to be the case when she tried to force a breakup. She cared more for her goals than for the PC. What's so sad? What's so touching? The theoretical chance that she may have regretted it?

[Cedario]

Your right, Lel's is deep, very interesting. Personally, I think there is lot more to her than what is seen. I guess the best rogue/assan is the one you would least likely think would do something like that...

[Malsumis]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Not sure how this has to do with what I said. I wasn't commenting on the quality of the romance with my comment about her whining. I was merely saying that she does, indeed, whine.

I think I got quotes mixed up there.

But yes she does indeed whine, but then every other character does at some point or another, baring Sten. I don't see why hers was so annoying.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

What I don't get is how some
people have said her romance is really emotional, sad, or otherwise
powerful. The only power it held in my eyes was that of a joke. She
obviously didn't care too much about the PC. She let her fears get the
best of her and she panicked and left. That was more than obviously
going to be the case when she tried to force a breakup. She cared more
for her goals than for the PC. What's so sad? What's so touching? The
theoretical chance that she may have regretted it?

There is nothing sad about it, at least from where I sit, too many people want a happily ever after ending with her, despite that not being in her character. At the same time it's not a joke, she does care for the PC but not at the expense of herself(or purpose), if she didn't care for him she would have no need to say the things she did, after the ritual was performed. 

Many people seem to think/hope for a PC/Morrigan sequel/DLC/expansion story tie up, I'm not to sure they truly would want this, for I doubt it would have the happy ending they are after.

[marshalleck]

Well, to be fair, I would like some mention of what happens with her. I don't want to live happily ever after with her and godbaby, because it's not in her character nor is it mine. But I am intensely curious about the redemption of an Old God and the impact it will have on the world. So in that sense, I to want a "Morrigan" DLC or expansion.

[Driveninhifi]

Alocormin wrote...

Leliana is a deep person. She appreciates, seeks, and serves beauty wherever she can, which I really, really profoundly appreciate.

I've heard about what cheerleaders are actually like. They tend to be more cynical than Leliana is.

I think it's awesome that their is no need to redeem Morrigan.  She is who she is and she's not changing.  That's not to say anyone else should be like that though - it's definitely a cold way to live, but not inhuman or heartless.

The thing is - the only interesting thing about Morrigan is the internal conflict. Otherwise she's every other Morgana Le Fay clone in a fantasy game. And I don't think it's true to say "she is who she is" because she doesn't know who she is. That's why she's so crazy in the relationship - she wants to be strong and independent but she really isn't. She doesn't make a single decision for herself in the game - she is with the PC because of Flemeth's plan. She falls in love with the PC and becomes really needy because she doesn't know how to handle it. She is a complete emotional cripple hiding behind a veneer of superiority and it's that vulnerability that makes people invested in her.

And an ending can be happy without being completely sappy. Making her a purely tragic character is boring and predictable - it's really easy to write a sad ending. It's harder to write a happy, satisfying one that isn't totally contrived. There are numerous ways to make the story end with her and the PC united, but not totally saccharine.

I've said this before: we know she is selfish - so at what point does she decide she'd rather take what she wants (the PC) than do what mommy planned?

Modifié par Driveninhifi, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:30 .