81 réponses à ce sujet

[TuringPoint]

Well, that's not how I see her, and that's not why I'm invested in her. She's a little awkward to deal with but it's because she has no intention to deal with you as a person.

I do think she's overall not mature, but I don't think it's as simple as her trying to be tough.  She is not trying to be tough, she is not tough.  She is who she is.  That's how I see her.

I was expecting her to be confusing myself, but I didn't find her to be so terribly confusing.

Modifié par Alocormin, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:30 .

[Boeresmurf]

i found her quite interesting, since she was stil learning how life outside the forest works

and well she enjoys life, living it to the max.. while she learned what true friendship means while she walked with me. so the best way to say goodbye, if its really neccesary is to enjoy it with a damn "good night".



but i really look forward to DA:O 2

[Taleroth]

I liked her a lot because you see that softer side of her. She's in a conflict between the intellectual pragmatist that Flemeth raised her to be and the soft little girl she was when she was young. She talks about her youth very colorfully. She still loves jewelry, even having denounced it. She gets cute and playful. But doesn't know how to handle her emotions when they get serious.



And the delivery is absolutely top notch. Claudia Black knows how to portray that kind of character. It's got hints of Aeryn Sun behind it.

[Chris_]

What I think is amazing is that this many people spent this much time discussing this intellingently. God bless all of you for being civilized. I also think it's really cool that a game could inspire an actual discussion, that characters seem real enough to be discussed so passionately. Maybe games can grow up after all. I will say that I love the ending. That has to be one of the most satisfying wrap-ups I've ever seen in a game, up to and including the choice to look for Morrigan.

[Brockololly]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

Leliana is a deep person. She appreciates, seeks, and serves beauty wherever she can, which I really, really profoundly appreciate.

I've heard about what cheerleaders are actually like. They tend to be more cynical than Leliana is.

I think it's awesome that their is no need to redeem Morrigan.  She is who she is and she's not changing.  That's not to say anyone else should be like that though - it's definitely a cold way to live, but not inhuman or heartless.

The thing is - the only interesting thing about Morrigan is the internal conflict. Otherwise she's every other Morgana Le Fay clone in a fantasy game. And I don't think it's true to say "she is who she is" because she doesn't know who she is. That's why she's so crazy in the relationship - she wants to be strong and independent but she really isn't. She doesn't make a single decision for herself in the game - she is with the PC because of Flemeth's plan. She falls in love with the PC and becomes really needy because she doesn't know how to handle it. She is a complete emotional cripple hiding behind a veneer of superiority and it's that vulnerability that makes people invested in her.

And an ending can be happy without being completely sappy. Making her a purely tragic character is boring and predictable - it's really easy to write a sad ending. It's harder to write a happy, satisfying one that isn't totally contrived. There are numerous ways to make the story end with her and the PC united, but not totally saccharine.

I've said this before: we know she is selfish - so at what point does she decide she'd rather take what she wants (the PC) than do what mommy planned?

Thats my question about Morrigan ultimately: How much of her desiring an Old God baby is her wish as opposed to Flemeth's  plan from her grimoire? What else is in Flemeth's Grimoire that we don't know about? And how do we know that anything in Flemeth's grimoire isn't an elaborate ruse by Flemeth to just take over Morrigan again or something else?  And why does Morrigan feel so compelled to have the Old God baby in the first place, when it is clear that (if you romanced her) she has some feelings for the PC (unless she is truly a cold, calculating witch)? Is it just for "power" or some larger scheme?

Ugh... sorry for the deluge of questions I just finished the game- I need to sleep on this stuff!

[Driveninhifi]

Brockololly wrote...
Thats my question about Morrigan ultimately: How much of her desiring an Old God baby is her wish as opposed to Flemeth's  plan from her grimoire? What else is in Flemeth's Grimoire that we don't know about? And how do we know that anything in Flemeth's grimoire isn't an elaborate ruse by Flemeth to just take over Morrigan again or something else?  And why does Morrigan feel so compelled to have the Old God baby in the first place, when it is clear that (if you romanced her) she has some feelings for the PC (unless she is truly a cold, calculating witch)? Is it just for "power" or some larger scheme?

Ugh... sorry for the deluge of questions I just finished the game- I need to sleep on this stuff!

Hard to say. The reason had better be good, otherwise is completely breaks her character. Some outside force compelling her is the only reason that really makes any logical sense. Her doing it purely for power kind of ruins any development she's had up until that point because it doesn't really explain why she would insist on leaving the PC. Her being afraid of her feelings is reasonable, but that would be more believable if you couldn't have the confrontation where she begs you to end it.

Also the grimoire doesn't have to enter into it, because she still has the kid even if you don't do her side quest. And her being completely cold and calculating doesn't quite fit either, because she'd have no reason to tell you what she does. Plus, it makes her boring.

[Brockololly]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but if the story of Morrigan is continued in future DLC, sequels, whatever, is anyone concerned they might take the route of a character like Kerrigan in Starcraft? In the sense that you have an ally initially and then through the course of events, she becomes one of your enemies? I really hope not, but I was just throwing that out there.



And I agree Driveninhifi, ^^^ the entire success or failure of any future Morrigan character development hinges on why she felt compelled to leave the PC and have the God Baby. What is her real motivation for doing all of this?



When Morrigan was explainig the ritual, I just wish there was one continuous dialogue choice for the PC to ask "Why???" That would solve so many questions!

[Vilegrim]

Cedario wrote...

Question. Has anyone thought of or found out who Morrigan' dad might be?

a Chasind man, in one of her comments to leliana she says something along the lines of 'I was told that it was my duty to capture a man, use him up and kill him when I was done. '

[Arcadionn]

I notice some of you say Leliana is a much better romance option than morrigan and that she is more rewarding... I think some of you forget not all women are wooe'd by the same things... would you find it more believeable if Morrigan acted like Leliana and was all warm and fuzzy to you when she starts opening up? I would think Bioware was lazy and copy/pasted the scripts.



Morrigan has a different style / approach to romance and love... which is excellent and you can persue it if she is your type of person...

[MassEffect762]

Morrigan is all about power, she is the walking contradiction of a what it means to be a Grey Warden.(To Serve)



Morrigan is incapable of Love, the best you could hope for is a mutual friendship.



This is just a hunch but I'm going to say she doesn't have sex with you at a certain point for fear of getting pregnant before the ritual.



Should her story arc continue it will be predictable, go flemeths route(manipulative) or get swept away by things she has no business messing with.(damsel in distress)

[marshalleck]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Morrigan is all about power, she is the walking contradiction of a what it means to be a Grey Warden.(To Serve)

Morrigan is incapable of Love, the best you could hope for is a mutual friendship.

This is just a hunch but I'm going to say she doesn't have sex with you at a certain point for fear of getting pregnant before the ritual.

Should her story arc continue it will be predictable, go flemeths route(manipulative) or get swept away by things she has no business messing with.(damsel in distress)

She's not incapable of love. She's unaccustomed to it, having grown up mostly alone in the wilderness with Flemeth and only a few brief forrays into small towns and villages. She views love as a weakness and a potential interference with her plans. She feels she has a duty that supersedes her attachment to the player which is why she chooses to leave even if you romanced her.

She is pragmatic and practical, and tries (with only partial success) to not allow what she would consider fool notions of romantic love to get in the way of her plans.

She's quite far from the stereotypical evil/ice queen archetype.

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 novembre 2009 - 10:40 .

[Shady314]

MassEffect762 wrote...
Morrigan is all about power, she is the walking contradiction of a what it means to be a Grey Warden.(To Serve)

The IDEAL of a Grey Warden perhaps.

Morrigan is incapable of Love, the best you could hope for is a mutual friendship.

This is simply untrue.

This is just a hunch but I'm going to say she doesn't have sex with you at a certain point for fear of getting pregnant before the ritual.

??? Nonsensical. All the previous times carry just as much risk. She stops when approval hits 90 or above because she can't deal with the intense emotions.

Should her story arc continue it will be predictable, go flemeths route(manipulative) or get swept away by things she has no business messing with.(damsel in distress)

I wouldn't be so certain but even so what third option would you prefer?

[gotthammer]

Taleroth wrote...

I liked her a lot because you see that softer side of her. She's in a conflict between the intellectual pragmatist that Flemeth raised her to be and the soft little girl she was when she was young. She talks about her youth very colorfully. She still loves jewelry, even having denounced it. She gets cute and playful. But doesn't know how to handle her emotions when they get serious.

And the delivery is absolutely top notch. Claudia Black knows how to portray that kind of character. It's got hints of Aeryn Sun behind it.

Gotta agree w/ most of this.

As for the Aeryn Sun bit: I had just finished re-watching the 3rd season of Farscape when I finished the game...I think I literally cried out: "She's pulling an Aeryn Sun on me?!?" (or something to that effect when I found out about the 'choice' before the final battle, as well as the conclusion I got where she goes off)

Modifié par gotthammer, 21 novembre 2009 - 11:26 .

[Vilegrim]

gotthammer wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

I liked her a lot because you see that softer side of her. She's in a conflict between the intellectual pragmatist that Flemeth raised her to be and the soft little girl she was when she was young. She talks about her youth very colorfully. She still loves jewelry, even having denounced it. She gets cute and playful. But doesn't know how to handle her emotions when they get serious.

And the delivery is absolutely top notch. Claudia Black knows how to portray that kind of character. It's got hints of Aeryn Sun behind it.

Gotta agree w/ most of this.

As for the Aeryn Sun bit: I had just finished re-watching the 3rd season of Farscape when I finished the game...I think I literally cried out: "She's pulling an Aeryn Sun on me?!?" (or something to that effect when I found out about the 'choice' before the final battle, as well as the conclusion I got where she goes off)

it was obvious she was going to 'pull an Aeryn Sunn'  knew it was coming, had accidently spoilered it for myself, played it anyway, and it was so well done that even tho I knew excatly what was going to happen, it still got me.

[NarcissaArtois]

Zer0cool040 wrote...

Well if the second one continues somewhat after the first one, then i do in fact intend to go find my witch.. As i told Alistair i would do.. and good ol' Oghren said he'd come with me what a good friend.Course i told the Queen i'd stay because she needs my help.. but i'm keeping Morrigan on the side, until i find her and bring her back and banish Anora to become tainted while i rule the land with Morrigan, and god-child ready to take the throne should i meet my unfortunate demise!
Hey i can have dreams too

You made Anora Queen? OR did you make Alistair King and Anora Queen? Sorry, but I am assuming since you were romancing Morrigan that you have a male PC, so I was just wondering why you didn't put Alistair on the throne? With a female PC, its no secret why I did not make Alistair king, but I am very curious to hear from your point of view!

[Maria Caliban]

I assume because he's the king.

[Jacks-Up]

Narelda wrote...

eagerly awaiting the sequel where I can hunt her down.

It would be ironic if you had to hunt down and kill your own kid.

[frokenscheim]

Oh, Morrigan...like a girl right out of a song by The Cure...but with more shapeshifting.

[MassEffect762]

I told her to take a hike(ritual). It will come back to bite you in the arse. She wants a baby with the soul of an old god and yet refuses to tell you why, yeah not gonna happen.



She tells you of Flemeths abnormal being then proceeds to follow her instructions(demon baby) after having her killed. If that's not a step up I sure as heck don't know what is.



Morrigan is not to be trusted. Of course we all know this is an obvious set up for an expansion or sequel, I only hope they don't neglect the other possible outcomes.(which will probably happen anyway$)

[the-cniht]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Narelda wrote...

eagerly awaiting the sequel where I can hunt her down.

It would be ironic if you had to hunt down and kill your own kid.

I don't know what the developers are doing but really there is nothing that says the kid should be evil.  If you listen to Morrigan she says very clearly that the soul or essence will be preserved without the taint in the child.  That means the Old God or Elder High Dragon will go back to its usual form at least in spirit, even though physically it will be a human. 

The old gods were from what I can decern from the codexes nothing more then extremely powerful and intelligent dragons that were worshiped by the Tivinter Imperium.  The particular arch demon you're fighting is actually the Old God that represented Beauty.  (I state that because that's the only Old God it denotes and is explained specifically in the Arch Demon codex which leads me to believe that is the one that is currently awake and corrupted.)

All High dragons are female so I would take it that you're going to be having a daughter.  I do hope the expansion lets you track her down and ties up the loose end.  Hopefully with an ending that will allow them to be together.  Morrigan's romance is, in my opinion, the most complicated in the game.  Unearthing her heart fully which you just barely scratch by end game could lead to a very powerful story.

Also put a different spin on the child's essence.  Remember the old gods are asleep in the earth for whatever reason.  The darkspawn corrupt them, it's not as if they start out that way.  What says that the darkspawn won't be going after your child to corrupt it with the essence of that god 'calling out to them' as Senior warden Rohain(sp) mentioned.  Or Tivinter mages getting grand delusions about rebuilding the old religion around your child and corrupting it themselves, or both.

[durasteel]

Morrigan is deeply scarred and lives in fear, which she hides with bravado and abrasiveness. If you fully pursue a romance with her, she loves the PC very deeply, but that creates turmoil within her. She knows what is involved in destroying the Archdemon, and so fears that the PC will sacrifice himself. She is desperately afraid to lose the Warden, and so tries to drive him away.



Morrigan's behavior is not logical, but it is realistic. Whoever wrote her dialog has been in a relationship with woman who had a very troubled past.

[Maria Caliban]

Arcadionn wrote...

I notice some of you say Leliana is a much better romance option than morrigan and that she is more rewarding... I think some of you forget not all women are wooe'd by the same things... would you find it more believeable if Morrigan acted like Leliana and was all warm and fuzzy to you when she starts opening up? I would think Bioware was lazy and copy/pasted the scripts.

Morrigan has a different style / approach to romance and love... which is excellent and you can persue it if she is your type of person...

Some of you are saying that strawberry is better than chocolate, but you seem to be forgetting that stawberry and chocolate don't taste the same.

Chocolate has a different taste than strawberry, which is excellent if you like the taste of chocolate.

[the-cniht]

durasteel wrote...

Morrigan is deeply scarred and lives in fear, which she hides with bravado and abrasiveness. If you fully pursue a romance with her, she loves the PC very deeply, but that creates turmoil within her. She knows what is involved in destroying the Archdemon, and so fears that the PC will sacrifice himself. She is desperately afraid to lose the Warden, and so tries to drive him away.

Morrigan's behavior is not logical, but it is realistic. Whoever wrote her dialog has been in a relationship with woman who had a very troubled past.

That sir is an excellent analysis to which I agree.  As for the writer's knowledge of troubled relationships.  Let us hope him or her haven't been in one but know of it through a different route.

[owl208]

Morrigan is such an interesting character because she has layers like an onion.



Some layers may taste good, but other layers just cause tears.



And in the end, the lie is the truth.



But what remains has eyes only for me.