269 réponses à ce sujet

[JJ Long]

Shadow Broker was extremely linear, yet it was awesome.
Linearity is not a problem.
No one complained about the ending of ME1 being too linear, but lets face it, it was.
Bunch of shooting on Illos, bunch of shooting while getting to the Citadel tower and to Saren. Only difference is that there were some great cut scenes and dialogue moments in there to break it up.
It is not about linearity, it is all about presentation.

[matchboxmatt]

 I thought the DLC was okay, if not slightly below average. If Lair of the Shadow Broker could be considered DLC done right with exceptional writing and polish, then I'd say that this would be the opposite of that, but nothing abominable.

Aside from the brevity, the lack of any real choices or significance, and the short amount of dialog (as everyone and their mom said), I don't think it was those qualities that primarily cut it short. In fact, I think that the real issues preventing this from being an enjoyable romp wasn't content so much as poor design / pacing decisions and a general lack of polish.

Think about it. Mass Effect has plenty of missions which leave little room for any real decisions or impact on your Shepard, but still remain enjoyable because of its strong design. Here, as an epilogue to ME2 to set up ME3, it's the perfect context make a mission just like that. This isn't a chapter of ME2 where you need to make decisions: you've already made hundreds. Rather, this is a final chapter with the intention of setting a stage and tone to the next game, and in order to do that it, it has to be linear. I mean, imagine if you could save the colonists. All of a sudden, the mission would be less about the imminent Reaper threat, and more about saving colonists. Again. At this point in the fight for survival, the idea of sacrifice needs to be set in stone. This is what the DLC was about.

So, assuming that content isn't the problem here, what is?

It starts with how the mission was approached: a solo adventure. Yes, it opens up cool staging possibilities (like the knockout sequence) and puts the focus on Shepard vs. the Reapers, which is lovely, but there's a massive trade-off. Most of the people who are coming back to this game haven't played for a long period time, and because squad members are cut out of the equation, there is hardly any time to acclimate. Not only does the player have to relearn the game, but they also have to adjust to thinking without squad members. Honestly, when was the last time anyone here played Shepard alone, let alone with a fully developed skillset? For some, the last time was at the game's launch.

What would have been wiser design decision would be having a section with team-members to help the player transition into the solo sequence. In a larger context within the game, this wouldn't matter, but in the context of single-serving DLC content, it can be crippling.

Another issue is the carelessness with which you're launched into the content. When first boarding the base, you're following the girl to the room containing the Reaper artifact, and she's getting stuck on doors and instantly turning around on elevators. Talk about taking you out of the scene. In Lair of the Shadow Broker, when you were walking with Liara, it was set up as a very effective dialog tree because of the cinematic quality in pairing direct action with significant dialog. Why not here? Why not take advantage of what could have been a strong setup to the twist? By the time you get there, you still hardly know anything about this agent or how these people have been working together or surviving, and you're hardly given a chance to care about the characters at all. It was a sorely missed opportunity, given that the lead up and the twist itself personally came off as confusing rather than shocking. Wait, this artifact is out in the open? What about the safety measures she was talking about? 5 seconds later: why did she lead me here if she just wanted to kill me? Why would she make the project remotely vulnerable to my interference by leading me to it? Oh, she didn't want to kill me. Wait, why?

Ofcourse all the questions make sense in retrospect. She lead me here to save Shepard for the Reaper fleet. She was deeply enamoured with the Reapers and wanted to see their arrival for herself, etc. and so on. But the pacing is so inneffective during these scenes that it undercut any emotional response or reason to care, which is largely what this game is about and has already demonstrated with its massive cast. Why do I only find out about anything significant concerning the agent after the twist that involves her? Why is it that I only see the shell of her former self rather than hints of whom she used to be? Not only that, but did anyone even bother to playtest that walking scene? So glitchy.

And she blows herself up next to the engine and everything is untouched. What?

It's the little things. What was an excellent subplot in concept was short-changed by its pacing and proofreading, while the over-arching plot of the destruction of relay / anticipation of the invasion was given all the attention. Perhaps it's because all the staff are hard at work on ME3, but regardless, I did enjoy the final scenes. It would have been nice if they gave the same love they did to the ending portion to the beginning portion as well, though.

Modifié par matchboxmatt, 30 mars 2011 - 06:30 .

[oOmpie]

Anihilus wrote...

^ I will admit i WAS expecting it to end with the Reapers invading. I mean come on with a title like "Arrival" your mind tends to jump to that conclusion.

You do realise that it ends with exactly that, the Reapers arriving at the edges of the Milky Way?
The only effect destroying the Alpha relay has is forcing them to travel to where they were planning to go the hard (and slow) way and maybe if they got there early enough, take some of 'em out with the Alpha Relay gone firecracker.

So instead of just popping up on every race's doorstep at countzero it will take them months or years to do so. Time to change to war economy, council races!1!  Prepare to evacuate and rig some asteroids.

[semtex86]

PurePareidolia wrote...

So, the DLC introduces the Alpha relay at the start, then we destroy it, and once all's said and done, all that's been added is the reapers are magically encountering a large supernova where their back-backdoor used to be and Shepard is now on trial.
Before this DLC existed, the reapers were coming and were near enough to be here by ME3, now, the reapers are coming and are near enough to be here by ME3. Only now Shepard has to go on trial, despite being a Spectre and hence above the law, and despite no possible evidence to incriminate him.

I mean, let's go through the list here:
-The SR2 enters the area, presumably with stealth systems engaged constantly
-Nobody at the prison recognized Shepard
-Nobody outside the prison knew about the Project's base
-If someone did see the Normandy, it was Cerberus logo'd (because TIM is an idiot by the way) anyway so they'd take the heat for it, not Shepard, especially since he can claim to have quit by then
-All knowledge of the Project suggested that Shepard was not involved
-Not to mention the mission was considered top secret, hence Shepard going in solo
-Shepard's only message was cut short before the system was obliterated
-The system and the Mass Relay were obliterated, moments before the reapers arrived
-If anyone went there they would be killed by the reapers so obtaining data isn't an option
-If anyone survived the reapers, they'd be cut off from the rest of the galaxy on account of no Mass Relay
-That's assuming being transported into a supernova didn't obliterate them instantly
-Even if Cerberus is indicted for being the last ones seen fleeing, it's impossible to know they caused the destruction, though even if they were suspected, they're terrorists, there would be no war with Humanity if humanity supported stopping Cerberus

The way I see it, there's going to have to be a lot of handwaving for this trial to work, assuming Shepard doesn't pull Spectre Credentials and refuse to disclose his records aside from the stuff concerning the reapers. If anyone asks he barely got the hell out of there and was working to stop the Project. There's literally no case against him. not that that's stopped Bioware before.

Well argued! There is no way this trial is going to be. They have no case at all. And like you said he is under council law and authority.

[gorrillasnake]

who knows maybe me3 would start as a trial..and they beat your face up and you have to get your face reconstructed

[gorrillasnake]

thanks for all the points given ...

we can all agree that it was too short though

[ashwind]

Arrival maybe short - it may not have the best story but I find it far from being rushed.

- The level design is unique, beautiful and thoughtful (cover no longer looks like awkwardly placed crates)

- The music is just nice.

- Shepard looks ever sharper and the rain water dropping off his armor is beautiful. Also, Shepard no longer hold the default Avenger in cut scenes, the right weapon is shown.

- Stealth mission suggest a whole new script for that level.

In short - the game shows commendable effort from the ME team.

[gorrillasnake]

 its obviously show there was a lack of effort on this DLC
 The DLC was done by a different developer this time...Montreal studios did this dlc..
  Also There was Plot holes that riddled the whole dlc

•   Bad Writing
• Unexplainable things like how did the normandy get to the astroid so fast if the communications were off
• No Choices completely Liner gameplay Which is not biowares style..
• Extremely short
• How Can A Epilogue be avialable after horizion...makes playing Me2 useless if played after horizion
• Lack Of Vs

  There where good Things

•    Mech Part was awesome
• Admiral Hackett is back and awesome..
• Shepard Goes Solid Snake (steathy)

[Nu-Nu]

I was disappointed because I thought the secret agent was going to be the virmie survivour, not some crazy indocrinated old bat. It did leave a good cliffhanger though.

[FlyinElk212]

@ matchboxmatt - Well said, couldn't have stated it better myself.

It's a shame that the last DLC of ME2 is undoubtedly it's worst, but it really didn't have to be that way. Were the workers on this DLC the same workers who did Lair of the Shadow Broker? I bet that team would at least dress this story up much better than this.

[ianmcdonald]

JJ Long wrote...

Shadow Broker was extremely linear, yet it was awesome.
Linearity is not a problem.
No one complained about the ending of ME1 being too linear, but lets face it, it was.
Bunch of shooting on Illos, bunch of shooting while getting to the Citadel tower and to Saren. Only difference is that there were some great cut scenes and dialogue moments in there to break it up.
It is not about linearity, it is all about presentation.

THANK you.

[TwistedComplex]

It cost 7 dollars. How long did you EXPECT it to take?

[gorrillasnake]

@ FlyinElk212
The Arrival was Made By Bioware Montreal where Mass effect 2 was developed....
It was The same People That Made ME2 so that shows somthing...

[Anihilus]

Yes let's all automatically assume that ME3 is going to fall short because of this [/sarcasm] How about when ME3 does come around we stop trying to analyze it bit by bit... isn't that the developer's job?

[gorrillasnake]

We as Gamers Should Analyze The Product Bit By Bit....thats our job as consumers to critize there work...
This sloppyness worries some gamers! because they think "wtf is Me3 going to be sloppy like the DLC??"
I dont want to be like those angry gamers from The GameFly Ads throwing there t.vs out the window..but i will if i have too

Modifié par gorrillasnake, 30 mars 2011 - 06:15 .

[Anihilus]

While that is.... true, I sometimes feel as though we are too critical in some cases. Did I have problems with Arrival? Yes! Mainly

A. The fact that even though you tried to warn the Batarians it did absoleutly nothing cuz of Dr. Indoctrinated. (Meh I don't really like Batarians that much anyway)

B. That stupid screaming glitch! I mean seriously I use throw and he's lying on the ground screaming his head off... project guards grow a backbone

But for what it was it was pretty good. And the whole asteroid-into-a-mass-relay reminds me of a episode of Stargate SG-1 called "Exodus" and I thought that was a nice touch. Plus hey, we gotta admit seeing that relay blow up was pretty cool.

[gorrillasnake]

im not trying to ****** on Bioware noodles but

I was Looking for a more Epic Epilogue..for one of the best games ever...
like i said it wasnt half bad...it was just..i expected more from bioware

[Aumata]

PurePareidolia wrote...

So, the DLC introduces the Alpha relay at the start, then we destroy it, and once all's said and done, all that's been added is the reapers are magically encountering a large supernova where their back-backdoor used to be and Shepard is now on trial.
Before this DLC existed, the reapers were coming and were near enough to be here by ME3, now, the reapers are coming and are near enough to be here by ME3. Only now Shepard has to go on trial, despite being a Spectre and hence above the law, and despite no possible evidence to incriminate him.

I mean, let's go through the list here:
-The SR2 enters the area, presumably with stealth systems engaged constantly
-Nobody at the prison recognized Shepard
-Nobody outside the prison knew about the Project's base
-If someone did see the Normandy, it was Cerberus logo'd (because TIM is an idiot by the way) anyway so they'd take the heat for it, not Shepard, especially since he can claim to have quit by then
-All knowledge of the Project suggested that Shepard was not involved
-Not to mention the mission was considered top secret, hence Shepard going in solo
-Shepard's only message was cut short before the system was obliterated
-The system and the Mass Relay were obliterated, moments before the reapers arrived
-If anyone went there they would be killed by the reapers so obtaining data isn't an option
-If anyone survived the reapers, they'd be cut off from the rest of the galaxy on account of no Mass Relay
-That's assuming being transported into a supernova didn't obliterate them instantly
-Even if Cerberus is indicted for being the last ones seen fleeing, it's impossible to know they caused the destruction, though even if they were suspected, they're terrorists, there would be no war with Humanity if humanity supported stopping Cerberus

The way I see it, there's going to have to be a lot of handwaving for this trial to work, assuming Shepard doesn't pull Spectre Credentials and refuse to disclose his records aside from the stuff concerning the reapers. If anyone asks he barely got the hell out of there and was working to stop the Project. There's literally no case against him. not that that's stopped Bioware before.

Batarians know that the alliance was planning on blowing up the relay.  They did catch the chick, and more than likely sent word.  You also have the fact that you were 2 days out so checking security vids to identify who break in, but that is more of a stretch.  More than likely the Alliance is going to blame Shepard for blowing up the relay, blaming it on him working for Cerberus.  A easy scapegoat, hell Hacket can be blame for the destruction as well seeing how he authorize the mission.

[gorrillasnake]

Maybe thats how Me3 starts...who knows.....

[CroGamer002]

Rushed?

Are you kidding me?!

[CroGamer002]

PurePareidolia wrote...

So, the DLC introduces the Alpha relay at the start, then we destroy it, and once all's said and done, all that's been added is the reapers are magically encountering a large supernova where their back-backdoor used to be and Shepard is now on trial.
Before this DLC existed, the reapers were coming and were near enough to be here by ME3, now, the reapers are coming and are near enough to be here by ME3. Only now Shepard has to go on trial, despite being a Spectre and hence above the law, and despite no possible evidence to incriminate him.

I mean, let's go through the list here:
-The SR2 enters the area, presumably with stealth systems engaged constantly
-Nobody at the prison recognized Shepard
-Nobody outside the prison knew about the Project's base
-If someone did see the Normandy, it was Cerberus logo'd (because TIM is an idiot by the way) anyway so they'd take the heat for it, not Shepard, especially since he can claim to have quit by then
-All knowledge of the Project suggested that Shepard was not involved
-Not to mention the mission was considered top secret, hence Shepard going in solo
-Shepard's only message was cut short before the system was obliterated
-The system and the Mass Relay were obliterated, moments before the reapers arrived
-If anyone went there they would be killed by the reapers so obtaining data isn't an option
-If anyone survived the reapers, they'd be cut off from the rest of the galaxy on account of no Mass Relay
-That's assuming being transported into a supernova didn't obliterate them instantly
-Even if Cerberus is indicted for being the last ones seen fleeing, it's impossible to know they caused the destruction, though even if they were suspected, they're terrorists, there would be no war with Humanity if humanity supported stopping Cerberus

The way I see it, there's going to have to be a lot of handwaving for this trial to work, assuming Shepard doesn't pull Spectre Credentials and refuse to disclose his records aside from the stuff concerning the reapers. If anyone asks he barely got the hell out of there and was working to stop the Project. There's literally no case against him. not that that's stopped Bioware before.

Admiral Hackett might have to choose between Alliance and betreying Shepard by claiming he send Shepard there which he did.

I'm sure Hackett will go for the Alliance over Shepard even though even he will get in huge trouble.

[gorrillasnake]

yes i said it rushed........

[spacehamsterZH]

I agree it's too short, but it doesn't strike me as rushed at all, just not very well written. The environments are extremely well designed and reuse very little if any ME2 assets - if anything it's actually kind of baffling that they designed so much new stuff for such a short piece of DLC. Plus the combat sections are literally the best thought out of any ME2 mission from the original game or any of the DLC.

The story, though - yeah... yawn.

[gorrillasnake]

it just felt to familar to me ..fighting guards with the screaming glich lol
the music...and also the talk with the reaper...ive seen it before...
there was new things like one man army steath and controlling a mech..but no challenge no boss only that old chick...just i renagaded her ass..asap

Modifié par gorrillasnake, 30 mars 2011 - 07:10 .

[CroGamer002]

gorrillasnake wrote...

it just felt to familar to me ..fighting guards with the screaming glich lol
the music...and also the talk with the reaper...ive seen it before...
there was new things like one man army steath and controlling a mech..but no challenge no boss only that old chick...just i renagaded her ass..asap

No challenge?

Try to higher up difficulty and survive all 5 waves of enemies in that room.