201 réponses à ce sujet

[wikkedjoker]

If Bioware continues to do them the same way they did in Masseffect 2 and Dragon age 2 than yes.

In Dragon Age 2 romance is handled with kid gloves. There is simply no depth to it. Its fan service for fans that actually care more about sexual orientation being represented in a game over the depth of the relationships. This isn’t a back handed comment at gay’s or lesbian’s. You have every right to want your sexuality represented in games. This is more for thoughts meandering fan boys and girls that get hot and bothered when two girls make out or two guys make out. Regardless of any depth or context to the relationship.

Morrigan had one of the most in-depth romanced I’ve seen for a wile. Regardless of your feeling for the character, her romance had a flow to it. [Maybe its because she’s the cannon romance or it really feels like it.] She goes from not knowing what love is, to being terrified by it because she really cares about the Warden, and she didn’t want to, tragic in a way. And the other romances in origins are kind of like that. However I think hers ultimately had much more character development than the others. And it was nice to see that development, and her fear of love, and her regret and the end of the game, and her longing for the Warden in the epilogue and Witch Hunt.

She says love is a weakness but seems to truly value the Warden’s love above all else, even power, which is a huge change from the beginning of the game.

That’s good romance, and good writing. It shouldn’t matter if its gay or straight or what not, if its good its good, no matter you orientation you can respect it.

In DA:O your character can even admit to needing that romance as a sort of crutch to help get through the day. [Of killing Darkspawn]

There’s just something to be said for that.

A good plot doesn’t revolve around a romance, but a good romance can help the main character though the plot.

In ME2 and DA2 it just felt tacked on, and lifeless, pathetic.

If they started writing meaningful romances, than sure keep them coming but if its just fan bate to be fan bate than stop.

[Goldens]

"do we really need them?"

As usual, "need" is a strong word. The answer to this wording of the question is no.

They add significant replay value, though, and fans. I don't think they'll disappear soon.

[ejoslin]

Danjaru wrote...

I think they're somewhat important. It's a good way to make the players care about perticular companions and through that maybe get more connected to the world. At least in DA2 where you didn't care about any of your companions (at least I didn't).

I'd say it was unnecessary in DAO cause those characters were actually good.

I disagree about them being unnecessary in DAO.  The characters were good -- the way you got to know them over time was incredible.  But then being able to fall in love made it even that much better.

In DA2 all the interactions were shallower, and that included the romances.  When I compare Zevran's and Fenris' after-sexytime talks, Zevran's had so much more depth and choice.  What you said to him actually made a difference in how he responded -- and you have far more choices.  You could ask him if he was seducing you to try to kill you.  You could tell him he was bad in bed.  You could ask him about love.  You could play along with his teasing.  You could even do the whole "We need to talk..." spiel.  You could tell him it was just a one night stand.  You could tell him it was FWB.  Granted, unless you broke up wtih him, the romance would still go along the same lines, but at least the conversation was different.  With Fenris, you had very few choices, and they all pretty much went down the same path unless Hawke broke up with him before he could break up with Hawke.  Then supposedly you wait years before it can be resolved.  Yeh.

Actually, that is my biggest gripe with DA2 and the character interactions -- how it often makes no difference WHAT Hawke says, the response from the NPC is the same (this happened in DAO as well, but there was more variance).  That leads to a more shallow feeling.

But I'd rather have a system like DA2's than none at all.  The dialogs that were there were incredibly good -- I just wish there had been a bit more to them.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 mars 2011 - 02:43 .

[RazorrX]

I think romance adds to a game if it is well done, when every love interest in the game is available, etc. it just cheapens the whole thing.

So if you are putting them in just to put them in - no, I do not think they are needed. Spend the assets to make the game better vs a dating sim.

IF they are put in the game in a meaningful and plot aiding manner - awesome.

[Herr Uhl]

RazorrX wrote...

I think romance adds to a game if it is well done, when every love interest in the game is available, etc. it just cheapens the whole thing.

Would they be love interests if they were unavailable?

[RazorrX]

Herr Uhl wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

I think romance adds to a game if it is well done, when every love interest in the game is available, etc. it just cheapens the whole thing.

Would they be love interests if they were unavailable?

nope.

Okay to word it maybe a little better - when every companion character that has a romance option in the game is made readily availably (IE hitting on you, etc) from the get go it cheapens the whole thing.  It goes from being a more natural growth between characters to a porn movie. 

"Hi I'm the plumber..."  Becomes "Hi, I'm the PC"
Bowchickabowbow
 

[ciaweth]

Baher of Glory wrote...

My question:

do you think that romances MUST be in every modern RPG?

In general?  No.

If I'm going to buy the game in question?  Probably.  They amuse me.  I enjoy them as part of the overall RPG.

[shumworld]

The Angry One wrote...

bassmunkee wrote...

Given the amount of trouble they seem to cause I would suggest keeping them well out of the picture...

Yes let's make a game to please absolutely everyone.
We'd probably end up with Pong. Though I'm sure 3 lines and a moving dot offends somebody somewhere.

If you paid 60 bucks for it.


Back on topic. I don't mind the option for romances. To me some of my fav highlights dealt with the romances. The only thing I don't want is the romances to be the dominant portion of the story like FInal Fantasy.

Modifié par shumworld, 30 mars 2011 - 03:50 .

[Lee T]

Baher of Glory wrote...

do you think that romances MUST be in every modern RPG?

Nope, them becoming mandatory does make them stale imo.

Romances should be special.

[aluanira]

I don't think romances are absolutely necessary but I'd be sorely disappointed if they weren't included in future DA sequels. I don't even know if I'd purchase the game if it didn't have in-depth interaction and romance options. I find that sort of thing an important part of my gameplaying experience for RPGs.

[Herakleia]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Interesting to see, how far away I am from the opinion of the majority


For me the Warden, Hawke and Shepard from ME are leaders. A good leader should not fraternize TOO MUCH with his crew, right?

Would it be an adequate alternative to leave romances exclusively to our companions? 
One example in DA II was Aveline and her guardsman. I enjoyed it a lot to help her and found this particular "quest" very refreshing.

Neither of my Hawkes are that much leaders.  On the other hand, several of the companions, most obviously Aveline and Isabela, had or can get genuine leadership positions.  Isabela actually mentions fraternization with her sailors in one of the best conversations of the game between her and Merrill. 

I really enjoyed Aveline's romance quest, but I am glad to have the opportunity to have the romances if I wanted them.  My problem is that all of the available partners seemed to have issues of some sort, and none of them really seemed right for Paladin Hawke.  Aveline is the only one I'd really want in the house.  Rogue Hawke is much less particular, though. 

[Laurelinde]

Need? No, not really. I played through NWN and never happened upon any of the romances. But they do definitely add to the enjoyment for me (Anomen notwithstanding.)

[Eiliestl]

Romances yes absolutely . Why not it is an RPG ,it would be boring without it and it would't sell to female fans.

[Lord Gremlin]

Yes. In fact, Dragon Age is a romance game. Well, you have to tolerate some bad combat etc. to get to the fun stuff though.
I'm not saying romances should be in every RPG. Only in those that I buy and play. And Dragon Age without romances is no Dragon Age. It would be another bad, cliched RPG.

Now, back to Yakuza 4 for me, I'm addicted to hostess maker. Pimping is a nice job.

[ciaweth]

Eiliestl wrote...

Romances yes absolutely . Why not it is an RPG ,it would be boring without it and it would't sell to female fans.

Oh?  Do you speak for all female fans? 

I'd love to see the hard data on this.  My suspicion is that more men than women skip the romance content, but that could just be my bias talking.  Certainly many women would still play Dragon Age if it had no romance content.  There are other things to like about it, like that it's a fantasy RPG with good writing and good VO.

[errant_knight]

As many men as women seem to enjoy the added dimension of storytelling that romances bring when well executed. The Morrigan and Leliana threads would seem to be evidence of that.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

As many men as women seem to enjoy the added dimension of storytelling that romances bring when well executed. The Morrigan and Leliana threads would seem to be evidence of that.

I think this is further supported that the two companion DLCs that were released were starring, well, Morrigan and Leliana.  And in Witch Hunt it was pretty clear it was to give males who romanced Morrigan a more definitive ending other than "sadness and regret."

[The Angry One]

Eiliestl wrote...

Romances yes absolutely . Why not it is an RPG ,it would be boring without it and it would't sell to female fans.

I support romances, but this is a silly argument.
Female gamers are not one dimensional, many play Fallout 3/NV or TES for example, RPGs with no romances.

Hell, I know girls who love God of War and that's basically Testosterone: The Game.
Not myself mind you... but that's more because I'm horrible at those type of games. Yes I know they're easy. I'm still horrible, things going all over the place.

[Lithuasil]

Well, there's always DMC, which is basically God of War + Estrogen fanservice

[Oneiropolos]

I'm a straight female gamer, so clearly, I speak for all straight female gam....Joking!

You know, I'm playing through the Witcher. I played all the AC games. I played Prince of Persia which... I guess had romance in it but it was like "Here, have a princess" romance. But I have to be honest here. *holds hand up and looks ashamed* I only was convinced to try DA:O out because I had a couple female friends who kept raving about Zev and Alistair. I looked at the webpage and saw all the blood and the skeleton like figures of the darkspawn and was all, "I dunno, I'm really not into gore AT ALL.." but they kept going on about how squeal-worthy the romances were and how I needed to see the character writing and interactions for myself.

Several DIFFERENT female friends and I IMed information for each other for weeks before release on the confirmed romance LIs of DAII. So I can honestly say, I am a person who would not have purchased the game without the romance. It was the tipping point to make me give it a shot. And because of that, I started playing a lot of OTHER games I wouldn't have played, that didn't feature romance, because I had finally taken the step forward from going from MMO to singleplayer games. I always just thought they'd all be like the games I saw the guys playing in their dorms when I'd go over to visit, and those looked like monotonous hack n' slash that would NEVER interest me.

Now, I even went back and bought Kotor despite hating Star Wars just to fill in my Bioware impatience when I was waiting for DAII's release. I bought Jade Empire. Sometime in fall is when I played the two Mass Effects. I have almost all the DLC except the meaningless "Change their outfits!" DLC for ME. Bioware won me over because they had the romance elements. And I'll go be an assassin on occasion, but I'll always come back to grin at the antics of my LI in a Dragon Age game.

To me, it's like this: Is romance NEEDED in a book to have a good story? No. It's not. Sherlock Holmes NEVER had a romantic interest (No, not even Irene Adler and I HATE movies that imply she was one when the story EXPLICITLY states he didn't love her.) and you never really much cared about Watson's two wives. But there's a reason Pride and Prejudice and Jane Eyre are both considered classics, and they'd be rather empty without the romance in them. The two pairings from those novels have hit voter polls as the two most romantic love stories EVER. Heck, the very first novel ever written, The Tale of Genji, had a lot of sex and romance in it (...some of it quite twisted) and that was in 1000 A.D. There's a long history of telling a story with romance. It's not a 'girly' thing. It's something shared across all people and cultures. The question to me is more why anyone would choose /not/ to put it in. I can honestly state I've never witnessed an actual fist fight in front of me in my life. I've seen it in movies and such of course, but I've never seen it in front of me. That makes me lucky, I imagine, but I HAVE seen quite a lot of couples kissing and holding hands and talking with each other and being rather sickeningly in love. So MY life experience is that romance is much more frequent than fighting. Yet many games eschew romance and focus on the latter. That's hardly realistic, is it?

[Beerfish]

Are they needed? No.
Are they expected from BioWare? Yes.

There would be more people disappointed that there was no romances in a Bio game than those that would applaud them not being included. Since they are always optional it's not big deal in my mind.

[Taura-Tierno]

Needed? No.

Do romances make a game better? Yes.

I'd be terribly disappointed if they cut romances out of the games, since they're getting better with each game, imo.

I haven't been disappointed with romances from Bioware so far, other than some of them not being all that compelling. They've all been well-written, and I've played through all of them (not all in DA2 yet, though I intend to). That I haven't found all of them very compelling is just a matter of taste.

[Arppis]

Romances are a nice spice to the game. I don't do them that much, but it's nice to see atleast one of them for the laughs. And then tell them: "Sorry babe, this was just a one night thing.". Because it would be boring to listen all that romantic crap for the rest of the game.

So yeah, I guess they do make the game more "alive". I support them in my own little way.

[Vanth]

I agree with the OP. I would rather cut the romances and have other content. The romances are always so shallow that they leave a bad taste in the mount (no pun intended).