110 réponses à ce sujet

[sasa 519]

The thing that didn't make sense to me was why an asteroid could destroy a relay while a supernova could only push the Mu relay out of its orbit

[piemanz]

Spectreshadow wrote...

The only question I have is how fast the FTL travel is because you could potentially cover that distance in a matter of years if need be...

I think thats the point.You're not stopping them by destroying the relay in Arrival you're just delaying the inevitable.They will get here eventually and that eventually will obviously be ME3.

Modifié par piemanz, 30 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[J0HNL3I]

piemanz wrote...

Spectreshadow wrote...

The only question I have is how fast the FTL travel is because you could potentially cover that distance in a matter of years if need be...

I think thats the point.You're not stopping them by destroying the relay in Arrival you're just delaying the inevitable.They will get here eventually and that eventually will obviously be ME3.

yer i think they sais ME3 is set a year after 2

[Gill Kaiser]

Terror_K wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Do you have any idea how far apart individual relays are? Travelling between them using FTL drives takes months or years. The Reapers are approaching the galaxy's edge using conventional FTL propulsion and the Alpha Relay is simply the outermost relay, the closest to the area of Dark Space that the Reapers lie dormant. Because it's their closest standard relay, the Reapers boosted its power somewhat, to make it easier for them to invade multiple systems quickly (including the Citadel's system), just in case they ever had to resort to these methods.

Think about it. If the Reapers were due to arrive through the Relay, why would there even be a countdown as they got closer? Relay travel is instantaneous. It's precisely the fact that they're having to travel without a Relay that was the reason why Alpha had to be destroyed.

If they really were just travelling in using FTL and didn't need to connect to the relay to enter the system they would have just arrived anyway: they literally would have been right there. The Reapers were due to arrive any moment... if all they were using was FTL, how was destroying the relay going to stop them from arriving in the system?

It wasn't. They would reach that system regardless of Shepard's actions. Blowing up the relay prevents that sysyem from being a link to the relay network, meaning the Reapers must now manually travel to the next closest system with a relay, which will take them months at least. All Shepard has done is buy time for himself and the various civilisations which, according to Hackett, aren't prepared.

[Weidekuh]

In ME1 something is mentioned how the reapers can survive thousands of years without "new energy". They go into a sleep state. But they can also "cannibalize" each other to regain energy to survive.

So maybe:
Direct link to Citadel = no travel casualties
Travel to alpha relay = some have not enough energy left and have to "eat" each other = casualties.

That may be the reason why sovereign risked alrming the galaxy of the reapers in taking over the citadel.

What do you think?

Modifié par Weidekuh, 30 mars 2011 - 08:33 .

[chris11211]

plan A: use a vanguard to open the citadel relay to dark space
B: use the collectors to harvest the best species (humans) to make a more powerful vanguard
C: manually fly to Alpha Relay and use it as a HQ to jump to many areas of the galaxy

outcome A: Sovereign blown sky high
B: collector base blown sky high
C Alpha Relay blown sky high

They are delayed maybe a year or less to start reaping. no wonder harbinger said Shepard is an annoyance.

[JKoopman]

Spectreshadow wrote...

This is just from memory but wasn't the local cluster kinda close to the viper nebula?

Relatively speaking, yes, the Viper cluster is quite close to the Local cluster on the galaxy map. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the Local cluster's mass relay is the next nearest to the Reapers arrival point on the edge of the galaxy, which would go a fair way in explaining why Earth is likely to be the first planet "reaped" in ME3 (aside from Harbinger's apparent boner for the human race, that is).

Modifié par JKoopman, 30 mars 2011 - 08:48 .

[Terror_K]

Well if The Reapers are already in our galaxy right now and were pretty much right there just as Shepard used the relay then wouldn't they have been taken out by the explosion too? Would we not at least have seen a cutscene of them getting at least hit by the shockwave instead of just Shepard staring at a galaxy map of a system being wiped out. Also, wouldn't that mean The Reapers are literally on our doorstep now, and yet one can play the DLC right after Horizon and then waste time with sidequests and stopping The Collectors, which doesn't make a lick of sense if The Reapers are already in The Milky Way. On top of that there is a novel at least set a month or two after the end of ME2, yet The Reapers aren't really a direct threat then. ME3 would have to be pretty much set right after ME2 with pretty much no gap if this is going to make any sense.

I'm going to play the DLC again, but again I'm pretty sure The Reapers still had to relay into the system first rather than simply FTL their way there. Yes, I think they're close to the edge of our galaxy, but I still don't think they're quite as close as many of you in this thread seem to think. Otherwise wouldn't it be a little more urgent for Shepard after it was all over, especially if you've still got the suicide mission ahead of you?

[piemanz]

Terror_K wrote...

Well if The Reapers are already in our galaxy right now and were pretty much right there just as Shepard used the relay then wouldn't they have been taken out by the explosion too? Would we not at least have seen a cutscene of them getting at least hit by the shockwave instead of just Shepard staring at a galaxy map of a system being wiped out. Also, wouldn't that mean The Reapers are literally on our doorstep now, and yet one can play the DLC right after Horizon and then waste time with sidequests and stopping The Collectors, which doesn't make a lick of sense if The Reapers are already in The Milky Way. On top of that there is a novel at least set a month or two after the end of ME2, yet The Reapers aren't really a direct threat then. ME3 would have to be pretty much set right after ME2 with pretty much no gap if this is going to make any sense.

I'm going to play the DLC again, but again I'm pretty sure The Reapers still had to relay into the system first rather than simply FTL their way there. Yes, I think they're close to the edge of our galaxy, but I still don't think they're quite as close as many of you in this thread seem to think. Otherwise wouldn't it be a little more urgent for Shepard after it was all over, especially if you've still got the suicide mission ahead of you?

Our doorstep in galactic terms could still mean months or even years away at FTL given the distances involved.

[Terror_K]

Does this then mean that the final cutscene with The Reapers at the end of ME2 is different if you've done Arrival before completing the Suicide Mission?

[piemanz]

Terror_K wrote...

Does this then mean that the final cutscene with The Reapers at the end of ME2 is different if you've done Arrival before completing the Suicide Mission?

I was wondering this too, not heard anything though.I'll probably test it for myself in the next few days but unfortuanlty it will mean i have to do a whole new playthrough.

[marshalleck]

Terror_K wrote...

Does this then mean that the final cutscene with The Reapers at the end of ME2 is different if you've done Arrival before completing the Suicide Mission?

Now there's a good question. I'd be shocked if this were the case, to be honest. 

Besides, going by that cinematic the Reapers are way further out than just a few years. From their vantage point they can see across the entire breadth of the Milky Way, which we currently estimate to be about 100,000 light years across. To have the circumference of an entire galaxy in plain view as one clustered mass you've got to be very, VERY far away from it. 

I'll just have to assume that the cinematic artists were taking extreme liberties with the material, otherwise my brain is going to hemorrhage.

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 mars 2011 - 09:29 .

[Drake Averrod]

To possibly add another plothole: did anyone else notice how Kenson mentionend the derelict reaper (she says during the kodiak scene: even a Reaper that has been dead for thousands of years still contains power)? Now how could she know about it? Iirc it was a Cerberus project. Also it would be interesting to see if she still mentions it if Shepard himself doesn't know about it.

[this isnt my name]

Also your sedated for 2 days why didnt they kill you ? Or sedeate you for a longer period of time ?
Why hasnt shepard been indoctrinated ?

[MrFob]

Terror_K wrote...

Does this then mean that the final cutscene with The Reapers at the end of ME2 is different if you've done Arrival before completing the Suicide Mission?

I really doubt that. But it is still not necessarily a plot hole because we don't know what the countdown of the artefact really meant. Was it the arrival of the whole reaper fleet / race? Was it a vanguard that was supposed to build a relay to dark space for the reapers to come though? All we know for a fact is that their was a countdown and that the reapers didn't want the alpha relay destroyed. For the rest, we'll have to wait for ME3.

[piemanz]

this isnt my name wrote...

Also your sedated for 2 days why didnt they kill you ? Or sedeate you for a longer period of time ?
Why hasnt shepard been indoctrinated ?

Habinger wants you alive.You wasn't meant to wake up early it's possible the sedative wore off early due to shepards implants (speculation).Maybe you can't get indoctrinated while sedated?.

[this isnt my name]

chris11211 wrote...

plan A: use a vanguard to open the citadel relay to dark space
B: use the collectors to harvest the best species (humans) to make a more powerful vanguard
C: manually fly to Alpha Relay and use it as a HQ to jump to many areas of the galaxy

outcome A: Sovereign blown sky high
B: collector base blown sky high
C Alpha Relay blown sky high

They are delayed maybe a year or less to start reaping. no wonder harbinger said Shepard is an annoyance.

y
A was stupid, they didnt need the conduit  they could have easily called in the geth after EP, then while Saren was still a spectre, killed the council and seized the citadel.

B There was no reason for the collectors to stay hidden, soverign could have used them in the assualt, collector ship = reaper + geth = reapers would have won, also in ME2 they needed the reaper iff, why didnt it fry the IFF the moment cerberus got there ? It had its defences on, and geth can do it, I assume reapers have a similar feature. Also why was it left for 37 million years ?


C Shepard was sedated, he could have been killed ? Why were they risking soverign attacking the citadel when they could just use this, then go to the citadel and take it out, cutting communication.

The plot started out good, but the further this game has gone the worse it has gotten.

[this isnt my name]

piemanz wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Also your sedated for 2 days why didnt they kill you ? Or sedeate you for a longer period of time ?
Why hasnt shepard been indoctrinated ?

Habinger wants you alive.You wasn't meant to wake up early it's possible the sedative wore off early due to shepards implants (speculation).Maybe you can't get indoctrinated while sedated?.

They had no issue killing him once, and the least they could have done is cut his limbs off, shepard lives, but cant fight back.
Again stupid plot is stupid.

[piemanz]

chris11211 wrote...

A was stupid, they didnt need the conduit  they could have easily called in the geth after EP, then while Saren was still a spectre, killed the council and seized the citadel.

B There was no reason for the collectors to stay hidden, soverign could have used them in the assualt, collector ship = reaper + geth = reapers would have won, also in ME2 they needed the reaper iff, why didnt it fry the IFF the moment cerberus got there ? It had its defences on, and geth can do it, I assume reapers have a similar feature. Also why was it left for 37 million years ?


C Shepard was sedated, he could have been killed ? Why were they risking soverign attacking the citadel when they could just use this, then go to the citadel and take it out, cutting communication.

The plot started out good, but the further this game has gone the worse it has gotten.

A.I think they make it fairly clear in ME1 that the element of suprise was needed so the council races couldn't respond with as much firepower.

B. Throwing all you're eggs in one basket is not a good idea.It make sense that they leave the collectors with a backup plan.

C. i don't understand what you saying.

Modifié par piemanz, 30 mars 2011 - 09:58 .

[piemanz]

this isnt my name wrote...

piemanz wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Also your sedated for 2 days why didnt they kill you ? Or sedeate you for a longer period of time ?
Why hasnt shepard been indoctrinated ?

Habinger wants you alive.You wasn't meant to wake up early it's possible the sedative wore off early due to shepards implants (speculation).Maybe you can't get indoctrinated while sedated?.

They had no issue killing him once, and the least they could have done is cut his limbs off, shepard lives, but cant fight back.
Again stupid plot is stupid.

Yea they killed him but taking him/her alive is obvioulsy preferable....LOL at cut his limbs off.

[JKoopman]

@Terror_K: Where would the Reapers being jumping in from? You need a relay to jump to another relay.

It's mentioned I think at least once by Kenson that the Reapers are on the edge of the galaxy and very nearly about to arrive. The Viper cluster, where the DLC takes place, is right on the edge of the galaxy. It's pretty clear that the Reapers are arriving via conventional FTL, and you destroy the "Alpha Relay" simply to prevent them from immediately accessing the relay network and beginning the invasion. Now the Reapers have to continue using FTL until they reach the next relay in the network which, judging by it's proximity, will likely be the one in the Local cluster.

Incidentally, is it ever pointed out for fact that there's something special about the "Alpha" relay, or is it simply labeled "alpha" by virtue of it being the first relay that the Reapers are set to reach and therefor the relay that begins the invasion?

[xSTONEYx187x]

JKoopman wrote...

@Terror_K: Where would the Reapers being jumping in from? You need a relay to jump to another relay.

It's mentioned I think at least once by Kenson that the Reapers are on the edge of the galaxy and very nearly about to arrive. The Viper cluster, where the DLC takes place, is right on the edge of the galaxy. It's pretty clear that the Reapers are arriving via conventional FTL, and you destroy the "Alpha Relay" simply to prevent them from immediately accessing the relay network and beginning the invasion. Now the Reapers have to continue using FTL until they reach the next relay in the network which, judging by it's proximity, will likely be the one in the Local cluster.

Incidentally, is it ever pointed out for fact that there's something special about the "Alpha" relay, or is it simply labeled "alpha" by virtue of it being the first relay that the Reapers are set to reach and therefor the relay that begins the invasion?

This should be bumped for all to see. As much as I disagree with JKoopmans assessment of the overall ME 2 plot, but that's totally off topic, his explaination (About Arrival) is correct. How people haven't realise this yet is beyond me. 

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 30 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[piemanz]

xSTONEYx187x wrote...

How people haven't realise this yet is beyond me.

I think most people have in all honesty.

[CroGamer002]

semtex86 wrote...

Hello guys! Let me first apologize for my English since it is my second language and not a native speaker.

I would like to present some plotholes that occurred to me after finishing Arrival DLC. I will list these and hope someone can dicuss with me some of these plotholes, and perhaps sharing some thoughts about Bioware is getting lazy this days, especially with DLCs. This is a long read. If this is not to your taste you can leave now, you have been warned:

Goody good, I'l prove you wrong.

1. I know this was supposed to be a solo or stealth mission because the Alliance wouldn't want to provoke a war with the batarians. But seriously taking two squadmates with you on a stealth mission is NOT problematic, especially with the Normandy (upgraded even) which is made for the purpose of infiltration, and I can't see how two extra squadmates sneaking MGS style with you would be problematic.  This leads me to believe that Bioware was lazy with this BioWare since they didn't want to rehire old voice actors (more unecessary cost) to work for this Arrival DLC. This is supported or proved when neither Joker or Chakwas talk to you at the end. Only two voice actors is in this DLC: Hackett and Kenson. They only hired two voice actors.

He said Batarians would kill doctor if they saw group of people attacking not provoke the war. Besides I think AI would suck in stealth.

And lazy to rehire voice actors?
Dude many of squadmate VA are busy with other work( movies, shows...) and I don't think they'll be cheap for just saying few lines.

And only 2 voice actors?
What about Shepard( both male and female), Harbinger, Project VI, bad Joker impersonator, Batarians and Project NPC VAs?! That's for then 2 hired VA.

2. After we saved Kenson from the batarians it would make good sense to contact Normandy to tell you are alright or going to an asteroid to destroy the Alpha relay. Going blind to visit a Reaper device which we all know is never a good thing. INDOCTRINATION ANYONE? I could see the plot twist miles ahead (I bet more people saw it coming): Oh no we gonna see a Reaper device? What could possibly go wrong? Wouldn't make sense to bring a couple of squadmates to be sure? By now it would be safe to bring squadmates along with you right? Again laziness from Biowares part to implement squadmates' dialogue. Hey the Council even let you bring Cerberus personnel into the Citadel or geth into the Flotilla. Why not an asteroid with you trusted squadmates when visiting a Reaper device?

Or because they were in the shuttle that was on auto-pilot on that asteroid so Shepard couldn't get to Normandy until after he got there but he/she also wanted to see proof but didn't expect it's gonna be Reaper artifact to be laying openly just like that?

PS! Without teammates there is no tension or flow in combat. You just
sit there and wait for shield and life to recharge before reentering combat which
made it extremely boring. A DLC doesnt need to be boring just look at LotSB or even Overlord. Leaving out your squadmates just to save money on voice actors is just laziness and cheap.

Like I said, many squadmate VA are busy with other jobs and is not Bioware to blame for your sucking.

3. Sedated for two days and noone is asking where you were? What happened to look for me if I don't return in 2 hours? Perhaps assault the station ? (Assuming you told the Normandy crew before you went and visited the Reaper device). Again Shepard has experienced Reaper device technology more than anyone, it would make sense if he had Normandy standby in case something went horribly wrong. Which it did.

Or they didn't knew where is Shepard( which they didn't) and they were looking for him/her whole time which they did since Normandy got to Shepard very fast.

4. An asteroid or supernova destroys a relay? Really? Considering no asteroids or supernovas affecting a mass relay in millions of years (reapers are that old) are pretty slim. Mass relays should by now be really indestructeble or having the ability to direct incoming asteroids of any size. REALLY the reapers created a space station in the GALAXY CORE surrounded by BLACK HOLES. I bet they could create an indestructable relay....

Where did you even get that idea?
Besides we were lead to believe Reaper are indestructible and look what happen to Sovereign!

5. What about those who would never play Arrival? Does it mean they will get a default start in Mass Effect 3? Or will Bioware give them the same start like us? Most likely the former. Will the Reapers get a head start in Mass Effect 3?

Hmh, no.
It's a bridge DLC, it will happen no matter did you or did not played this DLC and same thing for LotSB!

6. About the Earth Court: There can be two scenarios: IF you are a reinstated Spectre you can NOT be in an Earth or Alliance court since you ANSWER only to the council. If you are a former Spectre perhaps it would be possible for you to be in an Earth court, but not likely since it makes no sense. ONLY the council can judge a spectre or revoke his status. No other government can condemn a Spectre. Spectre haave done heinous crimes before, perhaps not the scale in Arrival, killing 300 k batarians, but still it makes no sense for Earth to judge a Spectre.

I think for killing 300 000 people the Council would revoke his Specter status( kinda like with Saren attacking Eden Prime) and Alliance would go and catch him, if we ignore ME3 teaser trailer for the moment that is.

Thank you for reading and time. :happy:

OK.