110 réponses à ce sujet

[Joanne Shepard]

As for why they didn't killed the sedated Shepard, I guess for the purpose of studying him/her to collect data why this particular 'specimen' keeps come back to live to 'annoy' the heck out of them? Also there won't be a need of ME 3 if Shep is dead again .So they have to keep Shep alive till ME3

[CroGamer002]

Harbinger wants to "assume control" of Shepard.

[this isnt my name]

piemanz wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

piemanz wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Also your sedated for 2 days why didnt they kill you ? Or sedeate you for a longer period of time ?
Why hasnt shepard been indoctrinated ?

Habinger wants you alive.You wasn't meant to wake up early it's possible the sedative wore off early due to shepards implants (speculation).Maybe you can't get indoctrinated while sedated?.

They had no issue killing him once, and the least they could have done is cut his limbs off, shepard lives, but cant fight back.
Again stupid plot is stupid.

Yea they killed him but taking him/her alive is obvioulsy preferable....LOL at cut his limbs off.

And risking him destroying the relay is a greater loss than his death.
Its like... Say the repaers see shep as a part for a new car, its me risking my car being completely destroyed just so I can get a slightly better part, he isnt needed, the potential loss outweighs gain, reapers are logical they should know this.

[Remus Artega]

Joanne Shepard wrote...

As for why they didn't killed the sedated Shepard, I guess for the purpose of studying him/her to collect data why this particular 'specimen' keeps come back to live to 'annoy' the heck out of them? Also there won't be a need of ME 3 if Shep is dead again .So they have to keep Shep alive till ME3

I wonder why they did not seem to have the same interest in the being behind the weapon that killed one of their own...or we simply do not know? Maybe I just don't like the idea of Shepard being the biggest pain in their ass and thus putting aside other possible threats which kind of make this game feel less like struggling of all organics/galaxy and more like a duel between Harbinger and Shepard....

Modifié par Remus Artega, 30 mars 2011 - 10:29 .

[piemanz]

this isnt my name wrote...

piemanz wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

piemanz wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Also your sedated for 2 days why didnt they kill you ? Or sedeate you for a longer period of time ?
Why hasnt shepard been indoctrinated ?

Habinger wants you alive.You wasn't meant to wake up early it's possible the sedative wore off early due to shepards implants (speculation).Maybe you can't get indoctrinated while sedated?.

They had no issue killing him once, and the least they could have done is cut his limbs off, shepard lives, but cant fight back.
Again stupid plot is stupid.

Yea they killed him but taking him/her alive is obvioulsy preferable....LOL at cut his limbs off.

And risking him destroying the relay is a greater loss than his death.
Its like... Say the repaers see shep as a part for a new car, its me risking my car being completely destroyed just so I can get a slightly better part, he isnt needed, the potential loss outweighs gain, reapers are logical they should know this.

Not really, destroying the relay just gives us more time to prepare whereas the reapers will see it as a minor annoyance.Harbinger even says at the end of Arrival that shep is merely an annoyance.

Modifié par piemanz, 30 mars 2011 - 10:30 .

[CroGamer002]

piemanz wrote...

Not really, destroying the relay just gives us more time to prepare whereas the reapers will see it as a minor annoyance.Harbinger even says at the end of Arrival that shep is merely an annoyance.

That goddamn hypocrite!

[piemanz]

Mesina2 wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Not really, destroying the relay just gives us more time to prepare whereas the reapers will see it as a minor annoyance.Harbinger even says at the end of Arrival that shep is merely an annoyance.

That goddamn hypocrite!

Yea thats how my shep sees harbinger too

Modifié par piemanz, 30 mars 2011 - 10:32 .

[Nemotenetur]

I've skimmed through this thread and others but haven't seen it answered yet, so apologies if it was. Why didn't Kenson and her crew thoroughly trash the Project? They knew it would work, so when the indoctrination hit they knew it was a threat to the Reaper invasion. I can somewhat understand them leaving it intact to fool Shepard, but once they have him/her, it's only a risk so why keep it? All Shepard had to do was hit a button, while they had 2 days to make sure those thrusters wouldn't work and there'd be no way the asteroid would slam into the relay.

[G00N3R7883]

Terror_K wrote...

Again, they had to have been coming through the relay. The reason it was taking them a while was because they needed to be able to connect with it from wherever they were. If they really were just travelling in using FTL and didn't need to connect to the relay to enter the system they would have just arrived anyway: they literally would have been right there. The Reapers were due to arrive any moment... if all they were using was FTL, how was destroying the relay going to stop them from arriving in the system?

My understanding is that the Reapers were in fact using convention engines, FTL, whatever, to travel from dark space to this system of space where the DLC takes place. The only relay powerful enough to make an instant jump was the Citadel relay, and we prevented that in ME1. So now they have to take the slow way (they have been making this journey for 2 years). The imminent danger in the DLC was that as soon as they arrived in that system, they would use the "Alpha" Relay to jump into the Sol system and start attacking Earth. The only significant thing about the "Alpha" Relay compared to any other Mass Relay is that its the closest one to dark space, the first one the Reapers can get to (hence calling it "Alpha", as A is the first letter in the alphabet).

The Arrival was NOT stopped. The Reapers are there in that system right now. The problem the Reapers have is that with the Mass ("alpha") Relay destroyed, they are faced with another long journey at FTL speeds to get to Earth. All we have done is delayed the inevitable, bought some extra time to prepare.

My question though is, could Shepard have delayed that asteroid by say a minute, and used the explosion to destroy the Reaper fleet as it arrived?

[Terror_K]

Okay, played it through again and paid more attention this time. I can see I was wrong and it appears The Reapers are pretty much just on the edge of the galaxy. It still seems rather odd to have them revealed as being so close in a DLC, but I suppose ME3 will answer that. If this really could only be played post Suicide Mission it wouldn't really seem so out of place to me, but as an event that can take place in the middle of the main plot it seems... odd, to say the least. I think I'll definitely save it for the end of every single playthrough personally, just so it makes more sense as a decent set-up to ME3.

Makes me wonder what would be quicker for a Reaper: traveling the rest of the way in FTL or creating a new relay themselves to link into the others?

Modifié par Terror_K, 30 mars 2011 - 12:28 .

[Marta Rio]

Nemotenetur wrote...

I've skimmed through this thread and others but haven't seen it answered yet, so apologies if it was. Why didn't Kenson and her crew thoroughly trash the Project? They knew it would work, so when the indoctrination hit they knew it was a threat to the Reaper invasion. I can somewhat understand them leaving it intact to fool Shepard, but once they have him/her, it's only a risk so why keep it? All Shepard had to do was hit a button, while they had 2 days to make sure those thrusters wouldn't work and there'd be no way the asteroid would slam into the relay.

I've asked this myself, elsewhere. Other than Reaper hubris and lack of foresight (which they seem to have in spades), no one's really answered it to my satisfaction yet.

Terror_K wrote...

Well if The Reapers are already in our
galaxy right now and were pretty much right there just as Shepard used
the relay then wouldn't they have been taken out by the explosion too?
Would we not at least have seen a cutscene of them getting at least hit
by the shockwave instead of just Shepard staring at a galaxy map of a
system being wiped out. Also, wouldn't that mean The Reapers are
literally on our doorstep now, and yet one can play the DLC right after
Horizon and then waste time with sidequests and stopping The Collectors,
which doesn't make a lick of sense if The Reapers are already in The
Milky Way. On top of that there is a novel at least set a month or two
after the end of ME2, yet The Reapers aren't really a direct threat
then. ME3 would have to be pretty much set right after ME2 with pretty
much no gap if this is going to make any sense.

I'm going to play
the DLC again, but again I'm pretty sure The Reapers still had to relay
into the system first rather than simply FTL their way there. Yes, I
think they're close to the edge of our galaxy, but I still don't think
they're quite as close as many of you in this thread seem to think.
Otherwise wouldn't it be a little more urgent for Shepard after it was
all over, especially if you've still got the suicide mission ahead of
you?

You bring up some good points, although I'm almost positive the explanation that the DLC gives is the one that's been cited by several people in this thread.  If that's the case, then yes, some of the Reapers definitely were caught up in the shockwave caused by the destroying the relay (which would have been damned cool to see, Bioware).  How many of them would have been damaged depends on how close together they were travelling, and how much damage the shockwave causes to non-organic lifeforms.  Maybe they had some way of shielding themselves from the blast?  We don't really know that information at this point.

The novel likely lacks the sense of urgency because, well, it was written before this DLC.  You would definitely expect both TIM and Anderson to know about this, although though I guess there's a remote possibility that the info didn't filter up to them.  So I guess the DLC contradicts the 3rd novel (although I'm not sure many people would care).

And yes, the largest issue this brings up is: why isn't this a bigger deal in game both before the suicide mission, but especially after.  I can see the suicide mission being a slightly more immediately pressing problem (although you'd think that Shep would be on the phone to Anderson TIM saying: ok, I'll take care of this suicide thingy, but you guys should really be looking into this HUGE OTHER PROBLEM).  And after the SM you'd think that Shep wouldn't be worried about mopping up all those random N7 missions...

[Sparda Stonerule]

Terror_K wrote...

Okay, played it through again and paid more attention this time. I can see I was wrong and it appears The Reapers are pretty much just on the edge of the galaxy. It still seems rather odd to have them revealed as being so close in a DLC, but I suppose ME3 will answer that. If this really could only be played post Suicide Mission it wouldn't really seem so out of place to me, but as an event that can take place in the middle of the main plot it seems... odd, to say the least. I think I'll definitely save it for the end of every single playthrough personally, just so it makes more sense as a decent set-up to ME3.

Makes me wonder what would be quicker for a Reaper: traveling the rest of the way in FTL or creating a new relay themselves to link into the others?

We don't even know for sure if they actually made the Relays. I know they said they did but I think they may just be liars.

[Marta Rio]

Terror_K wrote...

Okay, played it through again and paid more attention this time. I can see I was wrong and it appears The Reapers are pretty much just on the edge of the galaxy. It still seems rather odd to have them revealed as being so close in a DLC, but I suppose ME3 will answer that. If this really could only be played post Suicide Mission it wouldn't really seem so out of place to me, but as an event that can take place in the middle of the main plot it seems... odd, to say the least. I think I'll definitely save it for the end of every single playthrough personally, just so it makes more sense as a decent set-up to ME3.

Makes me wonder what would be quicker for a Reaper: traveling the rest of the way in FTL or creating a new relay themselves to link into the others?

Yeah, given how things are explained, they should have definitely only allowed you to play it post-SM. 

[Dean_the_Young]

They let you play it pre-SM for the same reason they let you do any of the bridging DLC pre-SM, and allow some of the recruitment missions to be done post-SM: as a gameplay conceit.

[semtex86]

Mesina2 wrote...

1.And lazy to rehire voice actors? Dude many of squadmate VA are busy with other work( movies, shows...) and I
don't think they'll be cheap for just saying few lines.And only 2 voice actors? What about Shepard( both male and female), Harbinger, Project VI, bad Joker impersonator, Batarians and Project NPC VAs?! That's for then 2 hired
VA.

1.Here you rather support my statements than disapprove them: You don't think BioWare has the capability to program AI teammatesto go stealth with you? I would say they have the manpower and resources to do it wouldn't you? About the voice actors: You would think BioWare would have prepared these actors in future DLCs to back them up or help them when BioWare plans for future DLCs. If they couldn't recall former voice actors to do a last DLC job then they were either unprepared or lazy: They were unprepared if they didn't see this coming,which is rather weird since they do DLCs on a regular basis, or they simply didn't care and just made a rushed job with this DLC. That is whyI called them lazy. This DLC gives me that feeling the feeling that they just rushed it for easy cash. They have proven they can make quality DLC when they have the willpower for it. Just look at LotSB. For me it was only two voice actors in the game that said more than one or two lines unlike the "extra people you mentioned.

2.Or because they were in the shuttle that was on auto-pilot on that asteroid so Shepard couldn't get to Normandy until after he got there but he/she also wanted to see proof but didn't expect it's gonna be Reaper artifact to be laying openly just like that?

2.Shepard is a military man, one would think that he had safety protocols when entering an unknown place or encountering Reaper technology and bring backup which he has done on numerous occasions before. The stealth mission was practically over when he saved Kenson. There is no excuse for NOT taking teammates with you when visiting the Reaper device. EDI alsto has been able to contact Shepard when he was on the ground before to provide extra intel. The batarians might have blocked coms around their planet but it is unlikely they can block the entire system. After all Shepard could contact the Normandy from the asteroid. EDI is an advanced AI in an state-of-the-art Normandy. Go figure...

3.Like I said, many squadmate VA are busy with other jobs and is not Bioware to blame for your sucking.

3.Again BioWare either was unprepared or lazy for a big company
that they are. Or are you denying they are not a big company being able
to afford VAs to do a last DLC?

4.Or they didn't knew where is Shepard( which they didn't) and they were looking for him/her whole time which they did since Normandy got to Shepard very fast.

4.It doesn't take that long to travel inside a small system with FTL engines. If you read above I mentioned it would be smart for Shepardto alert the crewmembers before he went down to the asteroid in case something went wrong. Which it did of course, considering we are dealingwith a Reaper device. It's like they made Shepard stupid in the first place for not even thinking about it.

5.Where did you even get that idea? Besides we were lead to believe Reaper are indestructible and look what happen to Sovereign!

5.Sovereign could only be taken down after Shepard destroyed Sarenwhich was linked with Sovereign. Only then fell the shields of Sovereign. I doubt the Reaper fleet would do the same mistake. So they are pretty much indestructible to conventional weapons. I hope BioWare won't do any cliches "Independence day" virus. That would be lame.

6.Hmh, no. It's a bridge DLC, it will happen no matter did you or did not played this DLC and same thing for LotSB!

6.I would say the Reapers arriving in two days earlier than several months is a big deal. I agree however it will happen more or less.

7.I think for killing 300 000 people the Council would revoke his Specter status( kinda like with Saren attacking Eden Prime) and Alliance would go and catch him, if we ignore ME3 teaser trailer for the moment that is.

7.Like I said, it is more Council business or law he will be judged after, not some Alliance/Earth law. It would damage the Council's authority if they appease every nation that has been affected by Spectres' operations. The Spectres are there for a reason, being able to pass countless regulations to do their job, but yes destroying a
system and killing hundred of thousands of lives is a stretch, even for Shepard. I would have hoped they would give us more paragon or renegade decisions instead of forcing us into this situation.

Modifié par semtex86, 30 mars 2011 - 01:59 .

[ashwind]

Mesina2 wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Not really, destroying the relay just gives us more time to prepare whereas the reapers will see it as a minor annoyance.Harbinger even says at the end of Arrival that shep is merely an annoyance.

That goddamn hypocrite!

No no, actually Harbinger is showing Shepard a great deal of respect - perhaps more than any other organic for who knows how long. Harbinger/Reapers do not address anyone else by name - just by their species.

For Harbinger to say - Shepard, you are becoming an annoyance means Shep has annoyed those who are infinitely greater. Harbinger is acknowledging Shepard as an entity/individual not some organic fuel like the others

:devil:

My Shpe takes that as a compliment 

[G00N3R7883]

It makes absolutely no sense from a story point of view for Arrival to take place before the Suicide mission.

The only explanation I can come up with for allowing it is that Bioware didn't want to hurt any player who maybe lost their saved games, and wanted to play Arrival but didn't want to play through 20 hours of other missions first.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Imagine if they had bundled up Overlord, Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival into one big expansion added in some dialogue from squad mates and TIM to make it clear where shep stands with Cerberus after the SM and sold it for 20 bucks as an expansion would you have felt cheated?

I wouldn't and the whole thing would make more sense to people.

DLC could just have been weapons and armors.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 30 mars 2011 - 12:53 .

[Marta Rio]

semtex86 wrote...
Again BioWare either was unprepared or lazy for a big company that
they are. Or are you denying they are not a big company being able to
afford VAs to do a last DLC job?

Please stop insisting that they're lazy.  The likely reason all of the VAs were not called back is because doing so would have eaten into the profit margin required by the people who control the money (high ups within Bioware/EA).  The reason we have DLC at all is because of that profit margin.  I'm sure there are devs within the company that would love to produce DLC with fully-voiced squadmates, it's just that their bosses wouldn't sign off on it.

You could possibly claim that these bosses are greedy, but I don't even think that is fair characterization.  "Business savvy" is probably more apt.

[Itkovian]

Personally I agree that Arrival should be post-endgame only, but do not think it is quite that bad if you do it before.

Remember, by destroying the Alpha relay you seriously delayed the Reapers again. They have to FTL to another relay, and from what the doctor said it sounds like the Alpha relay was pretty isolated.

Indeed, I think it's clear that the Alpha relay was there specifically as a backup to the Citadel relay. It's not a coincidence that this apparently normal relay turns out to have a special High Power mode that allows it to reach all the way to the Citadel.

The Reapers basically had the Citadel Relay, and when that failed they implemented their plan B, which required them to travel vial FTL for more than 2 years to get to the Alpha Relay. From there they can invade the galaxy (but of course the Citadel Relay would have been much better).

But now, with the Alpha Relay destroyed, it will take them several more months (perhaps even a couple of years, who knows how isolated the Alpha Relay is) to reach more relays. Giving us time to prepare a bit more.

What I do wonder however is how will people react, now that it's clear the reapers are coming (not that it wasn't before, but the Council sure loved being in denial).

Itkovian

[tonnactus]

Darkstorne wrote...

4) If the Reapers return to the galaxy every 50'000 years, then perhaps they also make repairs of mass relays when they are needed, and assess their situations. If they're near a star due to go super nova in the next few million years, then they could relocate it.

They didnt do it with the Mu Relay.And the relay theirself didnt have engines.So how would the reaper moove a relay out of danger.This dlc was just a piece of illogical crap like the comics.

[Nemotenetur]

Marta Rio wrote...

Nemotenetur wrote...
*snip*

I've asked this myself, elsewhere. Other than Reaper hubris and lack of foresight (which they seem to have in spades), no one's really answered it to my satisfaction yet.

Thank you for that  Though I'm happy I didn't miss something, still sad to see the only plausible answer is the Reapers being idiots

[Whatever42]

this isnt my name wrote...
And risking him destroying the relay is a greater loss than his death.
Its like... Say the repaers see shep as a part for a new car, its me risking my car being completely destroyed just so I can get a slightly better part, he isnt needed, the potential loss outweighs gain, reapers are logical they should know this.

We do not know the Reaper's motivations in all this so its impossible to say whether they are being logical.

Ok, let's assume that Reapers live millions of years. They have no real need to procreate for the sake of procreating. Procreating is a biological urge, not one hundreds or thousands of giant eternal machines would have.

So what's all this about creating new Reapers? Why create one?

If Reapers were orginally organic beings, it would make sense. They are cyborgs so we could guess that the Reapers were created from a sentient species and may have carried over some of that species goals and values, which means they can be illogical and messy.

So why are they doing all this? Simply because of a biological urge to procreate? Well, they may be somewhat biological, but I don't buy it. Something a lot of villains seek is perfection. If the Reapers were seeking perfection then they have a problem. They are eternal and unchanging. Change happens through procreation and evolution. Significant evolution happens through catastrophic events that significantly wipe out a species unless you happen to have some random mutation that allows you to survive the catasrophe.

So what are the Reapers doing? They are assisting in the growth of species along certain technological lines and introducing catasrophies. And then along comes Shepard and humanity, which not only have desirable genetic traits but actually kill a Reaper. This would probably excite the Reapers. Here is something possibly new to add to the Reaper community - something evolutionary. Something that might advance their own species.

Now, how excited they are about Shepard and how far they are willing to go to add Shepard to a new Reaper is debatable but it seems pretty far.

So now, suddenly, its logical, according to Reaper goals. If those are their goals. Just pointing out though that without knowing what drives them, its impossible to declare whether their actions makes sense or not.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 30 mars 2011 - 01:14 .

[Whatever42]

Nemotenetur wrote...

I've skimmed through this thread and others but haven't seen it answered yet, so apologies if it was. Why didn't Kenson and her crew thoroughly trash the Project? They knew it would work, so when the indoctrination hit they knew it was a threat to the Reaper invasion. I can somewhat understand them leaving it intact to fool Shepard, but once they have him/her, it's only a risk so why keep it? All Shepard had to do was hit a button, while they had 2 days to make sure those thrusters wouldn't work and there'd be no way the asteroid would slam into the relay.

Saren explained it. Those indoctrinated lose the ability to think creatively. The more indoctrinated you are, the stupider you get.

[Whatever42]

4. An asteroid or supernova destroys a relay? Really? Considering no asteroids or supernovas affecting a mass relay in millions of years (reapers are that old) are pretty slim. Mass relays should by now be really indestructeble or having the ability to direct incoming asteroids of any size. REALLY the reapers created a space station in the GALAXY CORE surrounded by BLACK HOLES. I bet they could create an indestructable relay....

You can't create an indestructible anything. And simply put the relays in older systems with stable stars and you won't have much of a problem. The Sol system has very little debris. How often has the Earth been struck by something very big that causes catastrophic loss of life? Not very often. Every few hundred million years? And the Earth is a much, much, much bigger target that will actually attract the asteroids if they get too close.

And a star does go supernova in this galaxy every century or so but there are 100-400 BILLION stars in our galaxy. And apparently, if its not very close to a relay, it can weather the shockwave. so again, chances are that no supernovas are going to take one out very often.