328 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

mrsph wrote...

Well the Reapers are Deus Ex Machina.

They are gods out of a machine.

Marta Rio wrote...

It still doesn't really explain the
human reaper and the events of ME2.  But maybe the baby reaper was just
a side scheme hatched by Harbinger because he had a couple of years to
wait and was bored?

He wants to get the project started faster.

The Human Reaper was probably a replacement for Sovereign, who is now very dead.

[Bad King]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

They could have got to the Citadel using the Alpha Relay. Even if the Citadel closed its arms, I don't fancy its chances against the entire Reaper fleet.

Perhaps not but could they reliably take the Citadel without destroying it in the process? Destroying it likely wrecks the entire relay system which would not only screw the Reapers ability to reap us but would significantly impair any future reaping ability.

They would have to damage it, but they wouldn't necessarily have to destroy it.

[huntrrz]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Mir5 wrote...

I think it can be explained that the citadel relay was just a main gate. But yeah, I find it to be bad writing, with the reapers being only few years away from the edge of milky way. I wonder if the constant overlooking of simple logic in BW games is caused by writers' arrogance or just lack of design time.

Its perfeclty logical. It would take around 2 years for the Reapers to get ot the Milky Way after ME1, setting the stage for ME2 and ME3. Where do you expect them to be, a billion years away from the Milky Way, the Reapers can be pretty arrogant, but they are not dumb. Bioware did not overlook anything, its logical and fits in with the story.

No, it doesn't.  The Reapers had been scheduled to begin their invasion over 1000 years before ME1 - the Rachni Wars were Sovereign's attempt to seize the Citadel when his signal to activate it failed.

If the Reapers were only 2 years away by cruising speed, WHY would they sit on their tentacles for 1000 years?

I'm not saying it's impossible to explain, but I AM saying that Bioware needs to explain it.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Spectreshadow wrote...

There is no evidence of this but it can be strongly suggested that the Rachni Wars was the first major attempt of Sovereign to begin the harvest.  I would say if the Salarians didn't find the Krogan it likely would have succeded.

How would starting the Rachni war in any be an attempt to start the harvest the two things seems completely unrelated to me?

There like a million easier ways for Sovereign to gain access to the the citadel relay than starting a war that will take many years to resolve and will only lead to lessen the amount of sentient species that the reapers can harvest.

I personally think that there is a much better explanation to the Rachni war - The war wasn't about the citadel at all it was all about the Rachni and their nature, I'll try to explain my idea down below.

The Reapers wants races that develop along the lines they have sat forth - Use Mass Effect technology, Use the Relays and Use the citadel - This is their plan, but once in a while a race shows up that doesn't develop along these lines(i don't know for sure but i don't think the Rachni use Mass Effect technology at all)these races are of no use to the reapers and therefore they must be culled before they grow to strong and possibly threaten their "harvest-races".

So the war was about wiping out the Rachni not the citadel races, If the war went badly to the point of the Rachni being a actual threat to the existence of the citadel races then Sovereign would simply have used his influence over the Rachni to have them stop their advance, Luckily(for the reapers) it all went to plan and they might even got some fat trimmed of the citadel races in a pure Darwinian way.

In the end why would the reapers try to wipe out the citadel races that did everything right according to the reapers plan?

 

[Almostfaceman]

huntrrz wrote...

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Mir5 wrote...

I think it can be explained that the citadel relay was just a main gate. But yeah, I find it to be bad writing, with the reapers being only few years away from the edge of milky way. I wonder if the constant overlooking of simple logic in BW games is caused by writers' arrogance or just lack of design time.

Its perfeclty logical. It would take around 2 years for the Reapers to get ot the Milky Way after ME1, setting the stage for ME2 and ME3. Where do you expect them to be, a billion years away from the Milky Way, the Reapers can be pretty arrogant, but they are not dumb. Bioware did not overlook anything, its logical and fits in with the story.

No, it doesn't.  The Reapers had been scheduled to begin their invasion over 1000 years before ME1 - the Rachni Wars were Sovereign's attempt to seize the Citadel when his signal to activate it failed.

If the Reapers were only 2 years away by cruising speed, WHY would they sit on their tentacles for 1000 years?

I'm not saying it's impossible to explain, but I AM saying that Bioware needs to explain it.

The simple fact about the rachni war is that we don't know much about it in relation to when the Citadel was sent its signal/Sovereign kicking into gear.

According to this the rachni were stumbled on sorta by accident.  If Harbinger and/or the Collectors were involved with the rachni, it's very possible that indoctrination was a side-effect of Collector involvement - perhaps as part of an experiment to see how effective indoctrination was on that species.  If the Council stumbled onto the rachni after such an experiment, that could explain the hostility, what the Rachni Queen tells Shepard on Illium, and how it wouldn't be connected to Sovereigns' plans in the slightest.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 31 mars 2011 - 05:18 .

[Whatever42]

Bad King wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

They could have got to the Citadel using the Alpha Relay. Even if the Citadel closed its arms, I don't fancy its chances against the entire Reaper fleet.

Perhaps not but could they reliably take the Citadel without destroying it in the process? Destroying it likely wrecks the entire relay system which would not only screw the Reapers ability to reap us but would significantly impair any future reaping ability.

They would have to damage it, but they wouldn't necessarily have to destroy it.

Citadel is made of the same stuff as the relays. They would have had to bang on that sucker pretty hard and we saw what happens when a relay blows. That's a pretty big chance the Reapers would be taking.

[Spectreshadow]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Spectreshadow wrote...

There is no evidence of this but it can be strongly suggested that the Rachni Wars was the first major attempt of Sovereign to begin the harvest.  I would say if the Salarians didn't find the Krogan it likely would have succeded.

How would starting the Rachni war in any be an attempt to start the harvest the two things seems completely unrelated to me?

There like a million easier ways for Sovereign to gain access to the the citadel relay than starting a war that will take many years to resolve and will only lead to lessen the amount of sentient species that the reapers can harvest.

I personally think that there is a much better explanation to the Rachni war - The war wasn't about the citadel at all it was all about the Rachni and their nature, I'll try to explain my idea down below.

The Reapers wants races that develop along the lines they have sat forth - Use Mass Effect technology, Use the Relays and Use the citadel - This is their plan, but once in a while a race shows up that doesn't develop along these lines(i don't know for sure but i don't think the Rachni use Mass Effect technology at all)these races are of no use to the reapers and therefore they must be culled before they grow to strong and possibly threaten their "harvest-races".

So the war was about wiping out the Rachni not the citadel races, If the war went badly to the point of the Rachni being a actual threat to the existence of the citadel races then Sovereign would simply have used his influence over the Rachni to have them stop their advance, Luckily(for the reapers) it all went to plan and they might even got some fat trimmed of the citadel races in a pure Darwinian way.

In the end why would the reapers try to wipe out the citadel races that did everything right according to the reapers plan?

 

The Rachni would very much be like the Geth that Sovereign used when it tried to take the Citidel.  Plus keep in mind that Sovereign would have to reveal itself in order to manually open the relay so it would prefer to have the Rachni destroy as much of the current civilization as possible to ensure it isn't destroyed in the process.  This of course all stems from the Keeper signal getting corrupted.  This is the only reason Sovereign had to do what it did to start the harvest.  

[Spectreshadow]

Also it really is amazing how much damage the Protheans did in blocking the Keeper signal. That above all else in my opinion is the major pain in the ass for the Reapers as it changes their entire plan.

[Spectreshadow]

Also keep in mind the Asari and Salarains were very much losing the war until the Krogan were uplifted. Sovereign had no intention of stopping the Rachni.

[huntrrz]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

They have been probably coming for a lot longer than 2 or 3 years. They've likely been coming at least as long as they've known the Keepers were no longer responding. That could be as long as 1000 years, if Sovereign was really trying to use the Rachni.

No, they haven't.  Sovereign attacked the Citadel to open the relay and bring the Reaper fleet in.  That means they had to be in position to use the relay on their end to come through.

They've only been traveling for 2 years (and a month or two).

[lltoon]

kanuvis wrote...

Also, they are the supreme-intelligence in the Mass Effect Universe, so probably they can travel FTL (they made the mass relays, and the citadel)

For supreme-intelligence, their plans are borderline retarded.

[Whatever42]

huntrrz wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

They have been probably coming for a lot longer than 2 or 3 years. They've likely been coming at least as long as they've known the Keepers were no longer responding. That could be as long as 1000 years, if Sovereign was really trying to use the Rachni.

No, they haven't.  Sovereign attacked the Citadel to open the relay and bring the Reaper fleet in.  That means they had to be in position to use the relay on their end to come through.

They've only been traveling for 2 years (and a month or two).

Yup, you're right. I wasn't thinking that through. If they were travelling for 1000 years they would have to be in another galaxy.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 31 mars 2011 - 06:59 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Spectreshadow wrote...

The Rachni would very much be like the Geth that Sovereign used when it tried to take the Citadel.  Plus keep in mind that Sovereign would have to reveal itself in order to manually open the relay so it would prefer to have the Rachni destroy as much of the current civilization as possible to ensure it isn't destroyed in the process.  This of course all stems from the Keeper signal getting corrupted.  This is the only reason Sovereign had to do what it did to start the harvest.  

Look man i can construct a series of events that will lead to opening the relay much easier and with no need for any bloodshed

(i wrote this as a news cast for just fun and shenanigans)

Citadel news : A startling discovery was made to day in the Alconta system - A huge vessel was found drifting in the asteroid belt, The ship seems defunct but otherwise in good condition, Citadel spokesperson Asini Erilon confirmed the discovery earlier today and stated that the citadel has sent A science division to study the ship.

Citadel news : Alcota-ship baffles the science division under the leadership of Salius Farit reports that the ship seems to be very advanced, The division arrived at the Alcota system four weeks ago, And at first reported everything was quiet but found it baffling that they could not find and airlocks on the ship, This have lead to speculation that this ship might be an ark from some lost race or in the worst case perhaps a AI ship - Salius Farit refused to respond to any of these ideas.

Citadel news : A remarkable turn of event's in the Alcota system - The ship dubbed the Alconta-ship seems to be powering up, Salius Farit made this statement earlier - "It seems that our scans of the hulk - as we call it here has - somehow triggered an response from the ship though I'm not really sure what made it respond to this scan, But i want to confirm Citadel spokesperson Asini Erilon earlier statement today that every single security precautions is being taken", After this statement Salius Farit had no further comments.

Citadel news : Alcota-hulk contact! - After much debate it seems like the Alcota-hulk ship has finally ended all speculation about it's nature by making contact on it's own and even more remarkable (dramatic pause) It presents it self as being a Protheon Ark ..a clearly shaken Salius Farit made this statement earlier "We ow the Protheons so much, The Mass Relays The citadel every little bit of technology that makes life worth living can be traced back to the Protheons and then..to actually talk to the memory of one of them..I'm just glad i was around to see it happen".

A more collected Citadel spokesperson Asini Erilon shed some more light on the situation "The science team made contact with a memory in The Ark - as we now call it - yesterday, The memory presented it self as Nazara and shed some light on the fate of the Protheons, It's seems that 50.000 years ago the Protheons suffered and succumbed to a disease that wiped out their whole civilisation, Faced with complete extinction they build an ark and uploaded the memory of their race, This is truly a momentous day for all civilisations of the galaxy".

Citadel news : The Council goes to Alcota - The Council left the citadel today on the Asari Dreadnought 'Wings of the Fallen' to take sight of the Protheon Ark - as it's now dubbed -, Turian council member Prellian Vultaren made this statement earlier - "We want to see this Protheon Artifact with our own eyes but also show the respect that it merits".

Also today Salius Farith confirmed that the Protheon-Ark does resemble other known Protheon technology like the Mass relays and the citadel, This statement has put many fears to rest about this whole "incident" was just some ruse.

Citadel news : Council of four! - Today the Counselors from the citadel had a lengthy meeting with the Protheon-ark, Councilor Vultaren made this statement "We came to the Alcota system to show our respect to the Protheon-ark and speak with Nazara, The talk went which had to b e done over view screen was informative to say the least, Nazara seems spirited and fit for duty..i just hope I'm that fit when I'm at that age, The entity we talked to seemed very happy about the fact that even though the Protheon culture died out other races have found use for the technology they left behind, This will undoubtedly easy many minds who have feared that the Protheons have come back to reclaim what is essentially theirs".

At the end of the meeting The Protheon ark gifted the council with what it claimed to be a communication device that will work anywhere in the galaxy in real time, After a thorough security check the scientist on site confirmed that the device did indeed link back to the Protheon ark with a signal and nowhere else - The council thanked The Ark as it's now dubbed for it's gift and hoped that they would have many more sessions in the future.

Citadel news : LIVE: We break this broadcast to jump live to senior correspondent Trian leaty with this live report Trian?.
Trian :" Were gathered here in the press area of the council for what has been rumored to be a historical annoucement, Ah here they come, Both the Asari and Salarian councilor looks a little pale ..no doubt from lengthy discussion is session.

Studio : "we go live to the council".

Salarian Councilor :"We are gathered here today to make an announcement of grave importance to the galactic community".
Asari Councilor :"We have received information from The Protheon Ark that indicates that in fact most of the Mass relay system is on standby"
Trian(whispering) "seems like the Turian councilor is holding the now fabled instant galaxy wide communication device in his hand"
Turian Councilor :"Indeed Nazara told us at the meeting one week ago that the mass effect network is capable of travelling anybody anywhere in an instant no need to change gates."
Asari councilor :"After much debate with the customs division and the military we have decided to switch it on".
Salarian Councilor: "you see people The Citadel it self is the core of the entire network and it has been powered down to it's lowest setting ever since the Protheon race died out".
Trian "oh look there seems to be some sort of console emerging from behind the councilors".
The council "In the name of fast and free travel for everybody we will now turn on the master key".
Trien "I can feel the citadel shake slightly there is a faint smell of ozone in the air,,everybody is very exited people, Now i can see it the inner ring of the presidium is starting to move..gaining speed can you see it people .. the rings are starting to swing like a mass relay there is a sense of power in the air, Everybody is grinning like they are watching the fireworks on Illium.. the ring is gaining speed, There in the center something is emerg...BTzzzzzzzzzzzz..

This could work and this was just me thinking for 10 minutes, There is no need to start any wars if you're Sovereign and want access to the citadel - The reason that Sovereign acted the way he did at the end of ME1 was because there was a perfect opportunity - Saren was on Ilos and gad just found out the conduit was a backdoor to the citadel, Saren had lost his Krogan army on Virmire so there was nothing to wait for and there were no reason to not use this opportunity so they went for it, But this doesn't mean that the only way to take the Citadel is with martial might.

I might be wrong but i still can't see how the Rachni war relates with Sovereign wanting the citadel, I find it much more likely that Sovereign tried to send the signal just before the start of ME1 and from there events ran it's couse.  

[TwistedComplex]

[Rekkampum]

contown wrote...

I thought it would take them centuries, maybe more, to get to our galaxy without the citadel or a mass relay. Which is why the needed the citadel. Then out of nowhere in Arrival, they're 2 days away. It's never explained. Did they just turn on their engines and fly here in a few years? If it's that easy for them to get here, why did Sovereign  even bother?

This makes no sense to me. Did I completely miss something, or is this just a big plot hole?

You did miss something. Kenson explains that the relay they are destroying is known as the Alpha relay, which allows the Reapers to access any system in the galaxy. The reason they needed the Conduit was because it allowed them to invade the very heart of the galactic gov't via the Citadel and wipe out the most important leaders of the galaxy in one fell swoop. The Reapers can probably use other relays to reach the star systems, but it will take varying amounts of time and their attack won't be as coordinated.

Modifié par Rekkampum, 31 mars 2011 - 08:34 .

[Bad King]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

huntrrz wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

They have been probably coming for a lot longer than 2 or 3 years. They've likely been coming at least as long as they've known the Keepers were no longer responding. That could be as long as 1000 years, if Sovereign was really trying to use the Rachni.

No, they haven't.  Sovereign attacked the Citadel to open the relay and bring the Reaper fleet in.  That means they had to be in position to use the relay on their end to come through.

They've only been traveling for 2 years (and a month or two).

Yup, you're right. I wasn't thinking that through. If they were travelling for 1000 years they would have to be in another galaxy.

Unless they have relays throughout darkspace linking to the Citadel relay.

[Elite Midget]

Bioware - Retconning things out to appease the Hardcore.

[Dave666]

Elite Midget wrote...

Bioware - Retconning things out to appease the Hardcore.

Don't forget the variables Elite.

[James2912]

I just hope that Bioware explains this. It would be like if in Star Wars Episode 3 they didn't explain how all the jedi died across the galaxy and just had Anakin destroy the temple. I'm sure Bioware will explain it.

[eye basher]

Simple the reapers move at the speed of plot if the plot says thereapers wont get to another relay in to years then they wont.

[James2912]

Actually I just thought of something was Object Rho the thing that transported the Reapers?

[Autoclave]

I think I have a plausible explanation. The reapers have started they journey from dark space prior to the events of ME1. Remember Keepers disregarded Sovereign's signals long before the Rachni Wars (Rachi wars being themselves cause by Reapers as I remember).

I don't know how long that was ago, but Repears might actually be on a journey already for more than a thousand years. Not 2 years how we previously thought.

[tcn-talon]

huntrrz wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

They have been probably coming for a lot longer than 2 or 3 years. They've likely been coming at least as long as they've known the Keepers were no longer responding. That could be as long as 1000 years, if Sovereign was really trying to use the Rachni.

No, they haven't.  Sovereign attacked the Citadel to open the relay and bring the Reaper fleet in.  That means they had to be in position to use the relay on their end to come through.

They've only been traveling for 2 years (and a month or two).

Which ain't too bad. A conventional FTL drive in Mass Effect can cover about 12 light years in a day's cruise. I would imagine the Reapers can beat that, so let's say 20. (Could be more if they've had millions of years with this technology to work on it.) Let's also say that they've been booking it for 400 days. So, ok, eight thousand light years or so? Respectable distance, that.

[R3MUS]

I wonder.... The Citadel is giant mass relay, that means if Sovereign had opened the Citadel and let the Reapers through, how is that exactly possible?

Were the Reapers going to the Alpha Relay and then Sovereign activad the Citadel and then they can come through? Or were the Reapers in dark space and it would just open a huge portal for them to go through? I dont think there are any Mass Relays out in dark space.

[himmelgeher]

R3MUS wrote...

I wonder.... The Citadel is giant mass relay, that means if Sovereign had opened the Citadel and let the Reapers through, how is that exactly possible?

Were the Reapers going to the Alpha Relay and then Sovereign activad the Citadel and then they can come through? Or were the Reapers in dark space and it would just open a huge portal for them to go through? I'm massively retarded. I dont think there are any Mass Relays out in dark space.

/facedesk
OF COURSE THERE ARE! I don't even... how could you even think that? Were you dropped on your head? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! The Citadel Relay has a sister relay in dark space to let the Reapers through. The Alpha relay was a backup. The point of the Citadel was that it accomplished all of their goals in one fell swoop. Getting them to and from dark space, census data, deactivating the Relay Network, disabling galactic communications, killing the galactic government. Literally everything they need to do. Two years of FTL travel is a long way to go and wastes a lot of resources. And it clearly would only be done if the first (infinitly more efficient) plan failed. It's clearly the more inefficient solution. But nooo... I clearly know less than the haters. Because it's completly illogical for Mecha-Cthulu to have one backup plan.

#Edit:
Dark Space only means "the space between galaxies" not "The exact midpoint between galaxies"

Modifié par himmelgeher, 01 avril 2011 - 01:15 .