328 réponses à ce sujet

[Nathan Redgrave]

A measure of how difficult it would be is somewhat beside the point. It's still less strategically ideal, and of course it would have worked anyway, that's why the relay had to be destroyed even at the cost of a whole starsystem. Given that the Reapers are essentially immortal techno-gods, waiting a decade or two for the strategically ideal option really isn't much skin off their collective nose. It wasn't until the option was rendered unsalvagable that the Alpha Relay was needed.

[Bad King]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

G00N3R7883 wrote...

Wow another these threads.

Okay its like in WW2 if the Allies [Reapers] could have just teleported straight into Berlin [Citadel] to kill Hitler [the Council] instead of having to land at Normandy first [Alpha Relay] and then fight through France [several star systems].

And no I am not saying the Reapers are the good guys.

There is a difference however- firstly, the Western Allies had a hard struggle against them. They would suffer heavy casualties fighting through France and into Germany, even if victory did seem inevitable. However, one reaper (with a few geth ships supporting it) took on a large portion of the council and Alliance fleet before eventually going down. A whole fleet of them could destroy every fleet in the galaxy with few, if any, casualties. Secondly, the Alpha Relay would transport the Reapers straight to the citadel from the outer pockets of the galaxy, so they wouldn't have had to fight through the galaxy to get to the Citadel anyway.

But it wouldn't have been right to the Citadel. It would be to the relay near the Citadel. They would have done exactly what Sovey and the Geth did, kick the crap out of the Council fleet. But unlike what happened in ME1, the Citadel would have closed the arms.

BTW, the Geth kicked the crap out of the Council fleet, not Sovereign.

Still, the Reapers could probably blast some holes through the arms and get in that way with their advanced weaponry. Either that or simply ignore the citadel alltogether and target the 'main' species' homeplanets.

Modifié par Bad King, 01 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[Whatever42]

Nope, the citadel is made of the same stuff as the relays and are nearly indestructible. I doubt they could simply cut their way in.

The major problem here is once everyone knows about the Reapers - they seige the Citadel and start reaping planets - then people will take action. They can run - relays are still active. They can destroy their relays and make the Reapers travel everywhere through FTL. The centuries long reaping now takes thousands of years.

And then they can't even be sure of getting everyone. The protheans just sat in their systems, confused and trapped until the Reapers came for them. Now species will be scattering, fleeing to the darkest corners of the galaxies.

So at the end, the Citadel might be detroyed or badly damaged. Many relays may be gone. People will be hiding all over the galaxy. The cycle is pretty much done.

That's probably enough motivation for the Reapers to try the back door.

[specter520]

I have not read through every post so I dont know if someone has said this but assuming ftl speed is 200 times the speed of light (speed of light =about 186,000 miles per second) then ftl speed is about 37,200,000 miles per second (mps). Then there are 31,556,926 seconds in a year so 37,200,000 x 31,556,926 is 1,173,917,647,000,000, so that is the number of miles in a year assuming you are going at ftl the entire time. So that number plus itself gives you miles per 2 years witch is 2,347,835,294,000,000 mp2y. So that means that the Reapers would need to be 2,347,835,294,000,000 miles away from the galaxy, this is a very small number in terms of the galaxy or universe. Also for those of you who want the game to be *this* realistic, according to Einstein's theory of relativity (E=mc^2 to be exact) mass is directly proportional to speed, and when you hit the speed of light your mass becomes infinite, and when you have infinite mass you would need infinite energy to propel your mass and since true infinite energy is unatainable, you cannot go faster than the speed of light, at least not in the way it is in Mass Effect. Now someone better read this or I will be mad.

[Whatever42]

specter520 wrote...

I have not read through every post so I dont know if someone has said this but assuming ftl speed is 200 times the speed of light (speed of light =about 186,000 miles per second) then ftl speed is about 37,200,000 miles per second (mps). Then there are 31,556,926 seconds in a year so 37,200,000 x 31,556,926 is 1,173,917,647,000,000, so that is the number of miles in a year assuming you are going at ftl the entire time. So that number plus itself gives you miles per 2 years witch is 2,347,835,294,000,000 mp2y. So that means that the Reapers would need to be 2,347,835,294,000,000 miles away from the galaxy, this is a very small number in terms of the galaxy or universe. Also for those of you who want the game to be *this* realistic, according to Einstein's theory of relativity (E=mc^2 to be exact) mass is directly proportional to speed, and when you hit the speed of light your mass becomes infinite, and when you have infinite mass you would need infinite energy to propel your mass and since true infinite energy is unatainable, you cannot go faster than the speed of light, at least not in the way it is in Mass Effect. Now someone better read this or I will be mad.

Don't be mad. I read it. However, FTL is 4380 times the speed of light. At least the FTL of the Alliance and other races. We don't know for sure how fast the Reapers can go.

And they use mass effect fields to get around the universal speed limit (magic! or maybe they just infinitely reduce their mass, not sure).

[Anacronian Stryx]

specter520 wrote...

I have not read through every post so I dont know if someone has said this but assuming ftl speed is 200 times the speed of light (speed of light =about 186,000 miles per second) then ftl speed is about 37,200,000 miles per second (mps). Then there are 31,556,926 seconds in a year so 37,200,000 x 31,556,926 is 1,173,917,647,000,000, so that is the number of miles in a year assuming you are going at ftl the entire time. So that number plus itself gives you miles per 2 years witch is 2,347,835,294,000,000 mp2y. So that means that the Reapers would need to be 2,347,835,294,000,000 miles away from the galaxy, this is a very small number in terms of the galaxy or universe. Also for those of you who want the game to be *this* realistic, according to Einstein's theory of relativity (E=mc^2 to be exact) mass is directly proportional to speed, and when you hit the speed of light your mass becomes infinite, and when you have infinite mass you would need infinite energy to propel your mass and since true infinite energy is unatainable, you cannot go faster than the speed of light, at least not in the way it is in Mass Effect. Now someone better read this or I will be mad.

I read it and wondered what the point of this post is?.

You have traveled at FTL many times in both ME 1 and ME 2 - FTL speed is an reality in the game - Ain't much else to say.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

specter520 wrote...

I have not read through every post so I dont know if someone has said this but assuming ftl speed is 200 times the speed of light (speed of light =about 186,000 miles per second) then ftl speed is about 37,200,000 miles per second (mps). Then there are 31,556,926 seconds in a year so 37,200,000 x 31,556,926 is 1,173,917,647,000,000, so that is the number of miles in a year assuming you are going at ftl the entire time. So that number plus itself gives you miles per 2 years witch is 2,347,835,294,000,000 mp2y. So that means that the Reapers would need to be 2,347,835,294,000,000 miles away from the galaxy, this is a very small number in terms of the galaxy or universe. Also for those of you who want the game to be *this* realistic, according to Einstein's theory of relativity (E=mc^2 to be exact) mass is directly proportional to speed, and when you hit the speed of light your mass becomes infinite, and when you have infinite mass you would need infinite energy to propel your mass and since true infinite energy is unatainable, you cannot go faster than the speed of light, at least not in the way it is in Mass Effect. Now someone better read this or I will be mad.

Don't be mad. I read it. However, FTL is 4380 times the speed of light. At least the FTL of the Alliance and other races. We don't know for sure how fast the Reapers can go.

And they use mass effect fields to get around the universal speed limit (magic! or maybe they just infinitely reduce their mass, not sure).

Mass Effect fields reduces the mass of an object sidestepping E=mc^2 and allowing to travel faster than light, It's the tech the entire game series is named after. 

[specter520]

I was mainly responding to the first page of the post because a lot of people were saying that that the Reapers were probably not far away from the galaxy to begin with, and I was just saying how far away they probably were, if what I had heard ftl speed was was right. And thanks I didn't realize that Mass Effect fields reduce the mass of the object within it in the game.

[Shirosaki17]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Nope, the citadel is made of the same stuff as the relays and are nearly indestructible. I doubt they could simply cut their way in.

The major problem here is once everyone knows about the Reapers - they seige the Citadel and start reaping planets - then people will take action. They can run - relays are still active. They can destroy their relays and make the Reapers travel everywhere through FTL. The centuries long reaping now takes thousands of years.

And then they can't even be sure of getting everyone. The protheans just sat in their systems, confused and trapped until the Reapers came for them. Now species will be scattering, fleeing to the darkest corners of the galaxies.

So at the end, the Citadel might be detroyed or badly damaged. Many relays may be gone. People will be hiding all over the galaxy. The cycle is pretty much done.

That's probably enough motivation for the Reapers to try the back door.

I don't think this makes any sense. We really have no idea whether they can or can't cut through the arms. They've probably planned for this contigency. We have no idea whether or not the Reapers can open the arms by sending a command to the citadel and just closing the arms isn't going to be enough. Reapers still have indoctrination. I don't think it would take long for a fleet surrounding the Citadel to indoctrinate the population and have them eventually open the arms.

Also, I doubt the population could survive long with the arms closed. There's been nothing to suggest that the Citadel can sustain all the life onboard for a long period of time when cut off. That's why the Protheans would have starved to death shortly after using the conduit to travel to the Citadel.

Once the Reapers gain control of the Citadel they can deactivate the Relays. It's unclear where the other races could run somewhere safe far from the relays without being caught, or that they would even know what they were dealing with.

[Whatever42]

Shirosaki17 wrote...
I don't think this makes any sense. We really have no idea whether they can or can't cut through the arms. They've probably planned for this contigency. We have no idea whether or not the Reapers can open the arms by sending a command to the citadel and just closing the arms isn't going to be enough. Reapers still have indoctrination. I don't think it would take long for a fleet surrounding the Citadel to indoctrinate the population and have them eventually open the arms.

Also, I doubt the population could survive long with the arms closed. There's been nothing to suggest that the Citadel can sustain all the life onboard for a long period of time when cut off. That's why the Protheans would have starved to death shortly after using the conduit to travel to the Citadel.

Once the Reapers gain control of the Citadel they can deactivate the Relays. It's unclear where the other races could run somewhere safe far from the relays without being caught, or that they would even know what they were dealing with.

Why would you assume they've planned for this contingency? If the Reapers could just fly up and remote control it, why didn't Sovereign? Why use the conduit at all? Just do what Zulu suggests and fly up with a few hundred Reapers, open the Citadel, and shut down the relay network. Since it didn't happen that way,  I think we can assume that it didn't means they can't.

It's simple really. We have two options:

1) The whole Mass Effect story is a complete waste of time because the Reapers have complete control over everything and are just messing with us.

or

2) The Reapers are not omnipotent. They cannot order the Citadel defenses down. They cannot remote control the Citadel.

If its 1 then we all die 20 minutes into the ME3 game. Hooray! It also means ME1 and ME2 were just pranks and that Bioware is staffed by drooling retards or sadists who are just screwing with us. Since I'm quite certain ME3 will be longer than 20 minutes and that the Reapers are not just playing with us then it must be 2.

P.S. Yes, I expect some clever wit to claim that indeed yes Bioware are all idiots, that the ME series is crap and that this is all a waste of time. But they'll buy the game anyway and continue to post here because its their mission in life to prove how clever they are (mommy said so!) and that everyone else is a moron.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 02 avril 2011 - 02:46 .

[Shirosaki17]

ME1 and 2 have pretty much been screwed by Arrival, but there's plenty of info on that. ME3 is probably going to have an awful story. The reapers are going to hit Earth and not hit the Citadel? Why? Why would you assume they haven't planned for that contingency or that they don't have any way of getting the arms open by say blowing a chunk of the station's arm off. You don't know what their weapons are capable of. Why do you think that they can't jam communications similar to what the Collectors did? They think the reapers are geth. The only message that might get out is they are under attack by geth. You think that's going to cause them to flee to far away worlds without leaving any kind of trace?

@your P.S. Is this why you post on the forums?

[Whatever42]

We know what their weapons are capable of. We saw it in ME1. We used it to create the Thanix canon. Weren't you paying attention? The Reapers are not omnipotent gods. And jamming a small colony is a little different than jamming a whole system.

And remember it took the Reapers centuries to reap the Protheans. There are thousands of systems out there with trillions of people. You think people won't catch on about the Reapers? Regardless what what they think the Reapers are, you don't think they won't find out what's happening? Of course they will.

Again, if the Reapers could just fly up and remote control the Citadel then they would have. They didn't. So they can't. If they could easily defeat the Citadel defense then they would have. But they didn't. So they can't. It's simple really.

[Il Divo]

Shirosaki17 wrote...
Also, I doubt the population could survive long with the arms closed. There's been nothing to suggest that the Citadel can sustain all the life onboard for a long period of time when cut off. That's why the Protheans would have starved to death shortly after using the conduit to travel to the Citadel.

Just going to interject, this is not the full picture. When the Protheans returned to the Citadel, a substantial amount of time (centuries I believe) had passed from when the Reapers first arrived, which would limit what supplies the Protheans would have access to.

It does not follow from this that the Citadel, under full alert/peak capacity, would be unable to withstand a siege. They'd be far more prepared.

Modifié par Il Divo, 02 avril 2011 - 04:52 .

[Sursion]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

ME1 and 2 have pretty much been screwed by Arrival, but there's plenty of info on that. ME3 is probably going to have an awful story. The reapers are going to hit Earth and not hit the Citadel? Why? Why would you assume they haven't planned for that contingency or that they don't have any way of getting the arms open by say blowing a chunk of the station's arm off. You don't know what their weapons are capable of. Why do you think that they can't jam communications similar to what the Collectors did? They think the reapers are geth. The only message that might get out is they are under attack by geth. You think that's going to cause them to flee to far away worlds without leaving any kind of trace?

You've played Mass Effect 3 already? How can you POSSIBLY know they attack Earth before The Citadel? The trailer showed like, 5 reapers, where's the rest of the fleet? MOST LIKELY ATTACKING OTHER PLACES. My god you're dense. Then you have to go and say ME1 and ME2 have been screwed by arrival. How exactly have they been screwed? You have 13 pages right here proving that everything in this plot makes perfect sense.

[Shirosaki17]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

We know what their weapons are capable of. We saw it in ME1. We used it to create the Thanix canon. Weren't you paying attention? The Reapers are not omnipotent gods. And jamming a small colony is a little different than jamming a whole system.

And remember it took the Reapers centuries to reap the Protheans. There are thousands of systems out there with trillions of people. You think people won't catch on about the Reapers? Regardless what what they think the Reapers are, you don't think they won't find out what's happening? Of course they will.

Again, if the Reapers could just fly up and remote control the Citadel then they would have. They didn't. So they can't. If they could easily defeat the Citadel defense then they would have. But they didn't. So they can't. It's simple really.

Once they take the Citadel they can use it to disable all relays. It's what they did with the Protheans. It's how they cut off all communication. They then collect the data from the Citadel and subsequent worlds they conquer to find out where all civilized life is.
\\
I'm talking about jamming the citadel, not a whole system. There would supposedly be hundreds of Reapers working together at this. Not just one ship jamming a colony. We also don't know if there is a manual way of opening the Citadel. There's just too much we don't know about the Citadel yet. Assuming one way or another is wrong. I'm just pointing out reasonable possiblities on what could happen.

I don't really understand your point about people catching on about the Reapers. Go back to ME1. Once they take the Citadel they control the mass relays, they turn them all off except the ones they're using to invade. If all civilized life was wiped out every 50k years for over 30 million years, then why would you assume that people would catch on now. Illos got lucky because the records of it were destroyed. Acting like the alien races would catch on just cuz is crazy. No communication and no relays means they are effectively trapped in their respective systems with no knowledge of what is going on. Why would they flee their worlds and what would prevent the Reapers from finding people that did something like that? They have indoctrination to turn people who would know about it.

@Il Divo You're right that they would be better prepared to last awhile, but not indefinitely.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 02 avril 2011 - 05:24 .

[Shirosaki17]

Sursion wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

ME1 and 2 have pretty much been screwed by Arrival, but there's plenty of info on that. ME3 is probably going to have an awful story. The reapers are going to hit Earth and not hit the Citadel? Why? Why would you assume they haven't planned for that contingency or that they don't have any way of getting the arms open by say blowing a chunk of the station's arm off. You don't know what their weapons are capable of. Why do you think that they can't jam communications similar to what the Collectors did? They think the reapers are geth. The only message that might get out is they are under attack by geth. You think that's going to cause them to flee to far away worlds without leaving any kind of trace?

You've played Mass Effect 3 already? How can you POSSIBLY know they attack Earth before The Citadel? The trailer showed like, 5 reapers, where's the rest of the fleet? MOST LIKELY ATTACKING OTHER PLACES. My god you're dense. Then you have to go and say ME1 and ME2 have been screwed by arrival. How exactly have they been screwed? You have 13 pages right here proving that everything in this plot makes perfect sense.

Because if the Reapers had taken the Citadel they would close all the relays and there would be no ME3 because they would win. And I'm dense? 13 pages of people ignoring any relevant info on the subject and only making crap up to support half the story. Sorry but the fans aren't really being objective here.

[Il Divo]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

@Il Divo You're right that they would be better prepared to last awhile, but not indefinitely.

True, but we also don't really know the details on how the Reapers would fare against the Citadel itself. It was built to last for a reason. Unless we're told more, we can't really say if the Reapers could simply plow through the Citadel or if they'd be waiting a few decades to starve the Organics out.

[himmelgeher]

Sursion wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

ME1 and 2 have pretty much been screwed by Arrival, but there's plenty of info on that. ME3 is probably going to have an awful story. The reapers are going to hit Earth and not hit the Citadel? Why? Why would you assume they haven't planned for that contingency or that they don't have any way of getting the arms open by say blowing a chunk of the station's arm off. You don't know what their weapons are capable of. Why do you think that they can't jam communications similar to what the Collectors did? They think the reapers are geth. The only message that might get out is they are under attack by geth. You think that's going to cause them to flee to far away worlds without leaving any kind of trace?

You've played Mass Effect 3 already? How can you POSSIBLY know they attack Earth before The Citadel? The trailer showed like, 5 reapers, where's the rest of the fleet? MOST LIKELY ATTACKING OTHER PLACES. My god you're dense. Then you have to go and say ME1 and ME2 have been screwed by arrival. How exactly have they been screwed? You have 13 pages right here proving that everything in this plot makes perfect sense.

You'd be surprised by the amount of people on these forums (mainly the Mass Effect and Deus Ex forums) who are totally psychic and know that the third game will be complete utter crap and how the devs will have to buy companies off just to recieve moderate scores. It's really amazing how psychic their psychicness is.

[Mir5]

himmelgeher wrote...

You'd be surprised by the amount of people on these forums (mainly the Mass Effect and Deus Ex forums) who are totally psychic and know that the third game will be complete utter crap and how the devs will have to buy companies off just to recieve moderate scores. It's really amazing how psychic their psychicness is.

Or maybe they just see how things usually turn out. Personally, even as a pessimist, I don't believe Mass 3 (or Human Revolution) will be utter crap, but I do think that it will feel a bit rushed, especially at the story department. Also, it will contain conveniently placed lackings that shall later be filled with overpriced DLC. You'd be naive to think otherwise.

Modifié par Mir5, 02 avril 2011 - 10:10 .

[008Zulu]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Do you know how you logically couldn't see stars or anything out of the windows in FTL in ME1, but suddenly you could in ME2? Or how about the fact that the galaxy wouldn't be nearly as bright as it was portrayed in the ME2 ending cinematic. Let's not forget that the size of the explosion on Virmire as seen from space was FAR too large to have been done by a 20 kiloton explosive.

When you were on the bridge talking to Joker (ME2) you were shown as being in FTL, when you went below deck you suddenly werent anymore. That was more confusing for me. As for the brightness of the galaxy, they can only really base that off the brightness of "existing" spiral type galaxies. The explosion on Virmire may be the correct scale, Normandy appeared to be approx. 100 km away from the surface when the drive detonated, and Mass Effect drives may produce a bigger boom without increases destructive yield.

[008Zulu]

Maybe the Reapers have a giant one shot space gun and fired themselves in to our galaxy. They then use mass effect fields to slow their speed. Since they were already aimed at the Alpha relay's system they are unable to change course and thus must make the 2 year (a guess) journey under normal means to the next nearest system. They couldnt aim directly at the Citadel because there are too many systems that would be in the way.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Well i guess that if the arms are closed the reapers could just fly in and shut down the relays leading to the citadel (Sovereign did that in ME1 so they can shut down a relay in their near vicinity) and then just wait out until the citadel runs out of supplies (it is a space station after all..perhaps they should have put fish for food in all those lakes like the krogan said ).

Edit : Perhaps a siege of the citadel will be a storyline since ME 2 did make the point that Cornucopia tech is still a part of fiction even in the mass effect universe.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 02 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Il Divo]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Well i guess that if the arms are closed the reapers could just fly in and shut down the relays leading to the citadel (Sovereign did that in ME1 so they can shut down a relay in their near vicinity) and then just wait out until the citadel runs out of supplies (it is a space station after all..perhaps they should have put fish for food in all those lakes like the krogan said ).

Edit : Perhaps a siege of the citadel will be a storyline since ME 2 did make the point that Cornucopia tech is still a part of fiction even in the mass effect universe.

Wait, when did Sovereign shut down all the relays leading to the Citadel?