328 réponses à ce sujet

[Sursion]

008Zulu wrote...

In the finale video sequence you see all the Reapers (barring Harbinger if you want split hairs) lights turning on. A pretty solid indication that they were asleep.

The Reapers are machines, they think like machines. They wouldnt assume that their plan will go 100% every single time. The derelict Reaper where you got the IFF is proof that there will be species who can step up and give as good as they got.

Ingame when things are about to get hairy or if we think they are about to, we hit the quicksave just in case. While the Reapers dont have the benefit of a quicksave button, they would setup alternatives in case Plan A went south. Its one of those common sense things.

They weren't waking up, they were emerging from the darkness.

[Eradyn]

Er...maybe I'm mistaken...but didn't the Reapers just start their journey toward the galaxy at the end of ME2's suicide mission? When they all powered up and started flying here the "old fashioned way?" Even with FTL travel, that's going to take them a while.

[Nogthwai]

Actually, if you can see the galaxy like show in the video at the end of ME2, they must be pretty pretty close by galatics standards. Else you wouldn't even see our milky way at all.

[Eradyn]

Well, they're "close" in the sense that they are closer to the milky way than any other galaxy out there. But judging by ME2's final video, they are still ridiculously far away, even counting FTL travel to aid them. There must have been something else they've been utilizing...and whatever it is, they should have kept using that and said "screw the relays, this is better."

[Jarys]

You do realize that the only reason they entered through the citadel was because that always ends up the center of government, and they use it to cripple the entire society that is built up around it? The citadel controls the other relays - they were able to shut down all of the other mass relays through it. It's not like that's the only relay that they can use.

Modifié par Jarys, 30 mars 2011 - 01:10 .

[008Zulu]

Sursion wrote...

They weren't waking up, they were emerging from the darkness.

Light doesnt just stop. If they were in darkness coming in to the light it would be a much more gradual reveal. If light stopped at the edge of the galaxies, we wouldnt be able to see all the other galaxies out there with our modern telescopes.

[Sursion]

008Zulu wrote...

Sursion wrote...

They weren't waking up, they were emerging from the darkness.

Light doesnt just stop. If they were in darkness coming in to the light it would be a much more gradual reveal. If light stopped at the edge of the galaxies, we wouldnt be able to see all the other galaxies out there with our modern telescopes.

It was dramatic effect. You can tell they're emerging because all the lights don't come on at once. It starts from the front and moves back.

[SmokePants]

Eradyn wrote...

Well, they're "close" in the sense that they are closer to the milky way than any other galaxy out there. But judging by ME2's final video, they are still ridiculously far away, even counting FTL travel to aid them. There must have been something else they've been utilizing...and whatever it is, they should have kept using that and said "screw the relays, this is better."

It would be an assumption to judge the distance based on that cut scene. Space is vast. A nebula from our vantage point appears to be a colorful cloud, but if we were to go there, we would find that the actual density of matter is close to a vaccuum. The Galaxy is even less dense than that. The reaper fleet could have easily been on the outskirts, with the bulk of the galaxy still seeming impossibly far away.

It's also an assumption that every last Reaper is traveling in a pack together.

[Eradyn]

My point is just that: space is vast. Incredibly, incomprehensibly vast. They were still far enough away for the galaxy to appear "dense" from their then-current position. They were still very far away.

Now...that they aren't in a pack together is a possibility, although I would think they wouldn't be too far (distance being relative, of course) from each other as they'd want to take advantage of the citadel relay backdoor (now a defunct plan, of course).

Edit: Okay, after studying the ending sequence more, I think I'll concede that they have been travelling for quite some time and are already within the galaxy by the close of ME2.

Edit Edit: And we'd best hope they are travelling in a single pack already, because the one shown to us is already large enough.

Modifié par Eradyn, 30 mars 2011 - 01:53 .

[aragfore03]

We might want to consider that they may have been traveling since Soverign's initial failure to trigger the Citadel. It's speculated that he was trying for hundreds of years (i.e. the Rachni Wars.) Also, what we say may be a wave of reapers with others waiting by a relay. There are a number of ways this could be written to make sense.

[Shirosaki17]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned was Sovereign spending centuries figuring out why the signal hadn't been working if they only needed 2 years to get to the Alpha Relay. I mean they could have began wiping out the galaxy centuries ago.

I assumed the Reapers would have to cannibalize each other either for parts to make a mass effect relay or to somehow make it to the galaxy within Sheperd's lifetime.

[FierceReaper]

Sursion wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

In the finale video sequence you see all the Reapers (barring Harbinger if you want split hairs) lights turning on. A pretty solid indication that they were asleep.

The Reapers are machines, they think like machines. They wouldnt assume that their plan will go 100% every single time. The derelict Reaper where you got the IFF is proof that there will be species who can step up and give as good as they got.

Ingame when things are about to get hairy or if we think they are about to, we hit the quicksave just in case. While the Reapers dont have the benefit of a quicksave button, they would setup alternatives in case Plan A went south. Its one of those common sense things.

They weren't waking up, they were emerging from the darkness.

Exactly.  Most likely the Reapers have been awake for much longer than 2 years, since the Keepers not responding to the signal prompted Sovereign to enlist Saren and the Geth, which took months(or even longer, reading some of the other posts here). They would have been waiting to go through/been woken up when the signal went off, not snoozing through it.

Modifié par FierceReaper, 30 mars 2011 - 02:17 .

[Eradyn]

If the reapers survive this, I wonder if they'll be doing maintenance checks on their primary backdoor a little more frequently than once every 50,000 years.

[008Zulu]

Sursion wrote...

It was dramatic effect. You can tell they're emerging because all the lights don't come on at once. It starts from the front and moves back.

Mass Effect has usually been pretty good with physics and science in general, ignoring or breaking a fundamental rule for dramatic effect would be very out of place.

[Xivai]

Eradyn wrote...

Well, they're "close" in the sense that they are closer to the milky way than any other galaxy out there. But judging by ME2's final video, they are still ridiculously far away, even counting FTL travel to aid them. There must have been something else they've been utilizing...and whatever it is, they should have kept using that and said "screw the relays, this is better."

I've tried saying this. Peopel called me a mad man and said that it was a third person flash back to when sovreign was defeated. Yet if that ssomehow magically the case then it's poor story telling to not make that clear. I'm going with occams razor. The Reapers have to have some powerful sublight drives to make a trip like that, just not instant like the Relay would have been.

Edit
We know that cinematic is at the end of Mass Effect 2. The collector general get's ditched, and then they start moving out. Please stop saying absurd overly complicated things. Why is it so hard for an advanced species of inter galactic robots to have fast sublight drives? It also makes them more dangerous since they could still kill the galaxy without the relays, would just take longer.

Modifié par Xivai, 30 mars 2011 - 02:26 .

[Sursion]

Xivai wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Well, they're "close" in the sense that they are closer to the milky way than any other galaxy out there. But judging by ME2's final video, they are still ridiculously far away, even counting FTL travel to aid them. There must have been something else they've been utilizing...and whatever it is, they should have kept using that and said "screw the relays, this is better."

I've tried saying this. Peopel called me a mad man and said that it was a third person flash back to when sovreign was defeated. Yet if that ssomehow magically the case then it's poor story telling to not make that clear. I'm going with occams razor. The Reapers have to have some powerful sublight drives to make a trip like that, just not instant like the Relay would have been.

Edit
We know that cinematic is at the end of Mass Effect 2. The collector general get's ditched, and then they start moving out. Please stop saying absurd overly complicated things. Why is it so hard for an advanced species of inter galactic robots to have fast sublight drives? It also makes them more dangerous since they could still kill the galaxy without the relays, would just take longer.

Sublight? Why would Reapers be moving at sublight speeds? The Normandy can outpace them.

[Xivai]

Okay I derped and added star wars term instead. They must have some good FTL drives or something more powerful than what we have. Argument still stands.

[Chromie]

Hmm if the Reapers made the Mass Relays maybe their just all dormant at a relay in Dark Space?
They could have made it and left it there.

[008Zulu]

FierceReaper wrote...

Exactly.  Most likely the Reapers have been awake for much longer than 2 years, since the Keepers not responding to the signal prompted Sovereign to enlist Saren and the Geth, which took months(or even longer, reading some of the other posts here). They would have been waiting to go through/been woken up when the signal went off, not snoozing through it.

Harbinger could have been on the same activity cycle as Sovereign, and when the signal didnt arrive, he woke the others.

Still, there has been no plausible explanation of how they crossed such a vast distance in so short a time without rendering the idea of the Citadel obsolete.

[Bebbe777]

Well, since the Reapers have done this countless times, they would have several back ups. Sovereign was the first so they could activate the Citadel Relay and bring the Reapers straight into the heart of the galaxy and make the mission much easier. The second backup was the Collectors so they could create a new reaper to activate the Citadel. When that failed they would most likely have another backup which is go to the edge of the Milky Way and use the Relay network. It may not be main bulk of the Reaper fleet but just a backup placed closer to the Milky Way or maybe the main Reaper fleet always was that closed to the galaxy. They would never use FTL to get to the edge before since the benefit of a surprise attack would be lost to them and organics would be free to move along the network as long as the Reaper didn't have access to the Citadel.

[marshalleck]

008Zulu wrote...

FierceReaper wrote...

Exactly.  Most likely the Reapers have been awake for much longer than 2 years, since the Keepers not responding to the signal prompted Sovereign to enlist Saren and the Geth, which took months(or even longer, reading some of the other posts here). They would have been waiting to go through/been woken up when the signal went off, not snoozing through it.

Harbinger could have been on the same activity cycle as Sovereign, and when the signal didnt arrive, he woke the others.

Still, there has been no plausible explanation of how they crossed such a vast distance in so short a time without rendering the idea of the Citadel obsolete.

It's pretty easy to piece together a timeline that makes this all very confusing without resorting to any speculation whatsoever. We know Saren and Sov hooked up something like 20 years before ME1; that's what the book Revelation was partially about. Establishing Saren's past and setting him up for the game. So that's 20 years they were tooling around doing...what, exactly? Looking for the Conduit? Looking for thre Mu relay? Reprogramming the geth? If the Reapers could always have just flown back from being only 2 years beyond the rim of the Milky Way, why didn't their invasion start 18 years before ME1 occurred?

I guess they figured sitting around in dark space for 20 years would be better than just flying back in the first time Sovereign's ping to the Citadel timed out. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 30 mars 2011 - 03:04 .

[Shirosaki17]

marshalleck wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

FierceReaper wrote...

Exactly.  Most likely the Reapers have been awake for much longer than 2 years, since the Keepers not responding to the signal prompted Sovereign to enlist Saren and the Geth, which took months(or even longer, reading some of the other posts here). They would have been waiting to go through/been woken up when the signal went off, not snoozing through it.

Harbinger could have been on the same activity cycle as Sovereign, and when the signal didnt arrive, he woke the others.

Still, there has been no plausible explanation of how they crossed such a vast distance in so short a time without rendering the idea of the Citadel obsolete.

It's pretty easy to piece together a timeline that makes this all very confusing without resorting to any speculation whatsoever. We know Saren and Sov hooked up something like 20 years before ME1; that's what the book Revelation was partially about. Establishing Saren's past and setting him up for the game. So that's 20 years they were tooling around doing...what, exactly? Looking for the Conduit? Looking for thre Mu relay? Reprogramming the geth? If the Reapers could always have just flown back from being only 2 years beyond the rim of the Milky Way, why didn't their invasion start 18 years before ME1 occurred?

I guess they figured sitting around in dark space for 20 years would be better than just flying back in the first time Sovereign's ping to the Citadel timed out. 

Sovereign spent centuries looking for the conduit. It wasn't just 20 years.

[Inverness Moon]

008Zulu wrote...

Sursion wrote...

It was dramatic effect. You can tell they're emerging because all the lights don't come on at once. It starts from the front and moves back.

Mass Effect has usually been pretty good with physics and science in general, ignoring or breaking a fundamental rule for dramatic effect would be very out of place.

Do you know how you logically couldn't see stars or anything out of the windows in FTL in ME1, but suddenly you could in ME2? Or how about the fact that the galaxy wouldn't be nearly as bright as it was portrayed in the ME2 ending cinematic. Let's not forget that the size of the explosion on Virmire as seen from space was FAR too large to have been done by a 20 kiloton explosive.

[marshalleck]

Fair enough. I couldn't recall a specific quote to that effect, but I was sure it was longer than 20 years. The point, in case you missed it, was to establish a very basic and incontrivertible timeline that makes this "fly back in 2 years" thing rather clumsy.