328 réponses à ce sujet

[piemanz]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

One HUGE problem in
waiting for the Reapers to arrive before attacking the Citadel. If the
Reapers would have attacked the Citadel head on, the Citadel would have
closed up and its also nearly indestructible and several orders of
magnitude bigger than a relay. The Reapers wouldn't want to destroy it
because that would likely shut down the relay network.

But
suddenly Sovereign and Saren uncover the second beacon. Then they
discover they need the cipher and get that. Now they know where the
conduit is and can launch an attack right inside the Citadel. Brilliant.
They'll just wait a few years for the Reapers and...

Damn, the
Council is on to them (as far as they know) and Shepard has had the same
visions and also knows where the Conduit is. Damn! Better hurry or
we'll lose the opportunity. Fortunately, we have this Geth armada to
help out. Should all be good. Nothing could go wrong.

Itkovian wrote...

I think I see your point... however there is a detail missing:

The Reapers CAN'T get to the Citadel and shut down the network anymore. Not after our victory in ME1.

The pivotal point of the Reaper plan is that they can send a signal to the Citadel, which has the keeper activate it and give complete control over the Reapers. The Reapers jump in, use the Citadel to shut down everything, and have fun.

On that level, no, using the Citadel to jump in is not necessary. They could just have flown to the Alpha Relay and then reached the Citadel, sent the signal and taken over. On that level, jumping in through the Citadel is just a shortcut, a convenient one that gives them an absolute element of surprised (which has a huge value, mind you).

However, the Protheans went and screwed that up. Now the Reapers can't just send a signal to the Citadel. In order to activate and take over the Citadel, Sovereign needed to interface with it directly. And in order to do that, he needed Saren to use the Conduit to infiltrate it with the Geth and stop the defenders from closing the Citadel.

And now? The Reapers can't use the Citadel anymore. The moment a Reaper fleet comes in, the defenders can just close its arms and it will be out of the Reaper's reach (even if they could blast it open, that won't leave it very functional *grin*). So THAT part, that MAJOR part of their plan is busted, including the element of surprise.

After all, if they could just jump in and take over the Citadel anyway, they would not have bothered with the Conduit.

So there is still no inconsistencies. Sovereign's goal in ME1 was to take over the citadel, and for that he needed the Conduit. He COULD have waited for the Reaper fleet to come, but if his goal was to take over the Citadel, what difference would that have made? He had the means to take over it with Saren and the Geth, and the fleet battle was mostly irrelevant, since it all hinged on having Saren open up the arms for Sovereign to interface with the Citadel.

Thank you.

Itkovian.

Nice posts....Explains it beautifuly.

[Levinstormdancer]

AwesomeName wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Citadel = shortcut. Instant transfer of many ships. Without the Citadel, they have to travel at regular FTL speed, which is MUCH slower and has zero suprise. The enemy can see you coming when you're in FTL unless you have a drive like the Normandy's (which the Reapers might actually have, come to think of it). The big thing is that it takes time to travel without mass relays, and it just shows how boneheaded the Reapers are that they only had ONE Citadel. Hello, every system needs a backup. Now they're trudging along at FTL speed, slowly trying to get to the mass relay network so they can invade the galaxy the way they had originally planned. Really, this isn't a plot hole. They were heading for the Alpha Relay in batarian space because it was the closest relay to their position in dark space. If they had arrived in the system before it was destroyed, they would have been on the relay network. Now they're going to head toward the next nearest relay. Once they're on the relay network, everything is pretty much lost. The only way to stop them is to either sabotage the entire system of mass relays, or "lock them out" somehow.

I really think the way they got to that relay had to have cost them something more than the element of surprise to explain why Sov went through the trouble.  They would barely have lost any of that if Sovereign kept silent and just waited for his friends to arrive.  By hatching such an elaborate scheme, Sovereign made his presense known to many sentients in the galaxy well before attacking the Citadel.  Years even.  If he just waited, in silence, for his buddies to show up, no one would have tried to destroy the alpha relay, and the galaxy would only have several hours to react - and it would've been the first time such a large number of sentients in the galaxy would have known about them.  Once they're in the network, it shouldn't take much longer than a day to get to the citadel (going by Retribution, when Grayson was travelling by shuttle, I got the impression that going through several relays was not much longer than a long plane journey).  Let's say they entered via the edge - they maybe give everyone a day's worth of warning?  How about the way Sov did it?  Way more than a day.  Which is better?

I think you're sort of disregarding how very important suprise is in any type of warfare.  Could it cost them something more than surprise by having to go the long way?  Sure, but that doesn't mean it's necessary.  In warfare surprise, means lowered costs, less loss of life and material, less energy cost, because of faster victory.   This is always the goal of every combat commander, get the most for less.  Also throw in there the reapers are machines and strive for efficiency in everything and that makes surprise's benefits even more important to them.

[piemanz]

AwesomeName wrote...

Personally, if they just say to us, "flying in has weakened them significantly - something that wouldn't have happened had Sovereign's plan worked", then that solves the plot hole that I'm not happy with.

I think that will be the case but it's also a mixture of that and what Itkovian and whatever  were saying.

Basicly this contigeny plan is significantly less desirable than coming through the citadel relay.

Modifié par piemanz, 30 mars 2011 - 06:58 .

[QwertyQwerty]

The point of the Citadel is more of "We can destroy the bulk of the Galaxy's Government and Military in one quick surprise attack" and less of "It can let us travel quickly to the Galaxy"

[Heather Cline]

We will find out what happens when ME3 launches at the end of the year. But the thing is, the Reapers have been waiting in Dark space for a long time. They are patient and they have infinite amount of time to do what they need to do.

Yes they are coming and as most people said, most ships move at the speed of plot. Take Star Trek or Star Wars. The ships go into hyperdrive or warp speed and the ships move fast but it's still at the speed of plot. Hell even J. Strazynski who wrote Babylon 5 said that his ships the white stars moved at the speed of plot. That's how it works.

So that is how it always works in fiction be it television fiction or whatever.

[piemanz]

AwesomeName wrote...

piemanz wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Personally, if they just say to us, "flying in has weakened them significantly - something that wouldn't have happened had Sovereign's plan worked", then that solves the plot hole that I'm not happy with.

I think that will be the case but it's also a mixture of that and what Itkovian and whatever  were saying.

Basicly this contigeny plan is significantly less desirable than coming through the citadel relay.

Plus it would be SO easy for the writers to put in.  It could literally be one conversation somewhere in the game.

As i said, they definatly alluded to it in ME1 with the conversation with vigil, whether it's a factor in ME3 i guess we will just have to wait and see

[Ghurshog]

contown wrote...

I thought it would take them centuries, maybe more, to get to our galaxy without the citadel or a mass relay. Which is why the needed the citadel. Then out of nowhere in Arrival, they're 2 days away. It's never explained. Did they just turn on their engines and fly here in a few years? If it's that easy for them to get here, why did Sovereign  even bother?

This makes no sense to me. Did I completely miss something, or is this just a big plot hole?

The setting never explained 'where' darkspace 'is'. However note that the system you go to on the mission is next to the edge of the galaxy map. Reapers travel through space probably like everyone when trying to go from planet to planet in the same solar system. 

The Mass Relays provide FTL (Faster than Light) travel. Sub light travel is still needed to 'get around' in the same system.

So the reapers simply start heading to the nearest relay to them in the galaxy. 

however I find the whole 'alpha' relay thing fishy. It was made pretty clear that is what the Citidel station relay was for.

Oh well.

[piemanz]

Ghurshog wrote...

however I find the whole 'alpha' relay thing fishy. It was made pretty clear that is what the Citidel station relay was for.

Oh well.

It's only called the Alpha relay because it's the first relay the reapers can reach on their current path and that is it's only distinctive feature from any other relay.

Modifié par piemanz, 30 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[Nozybidaj]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So that means they needed a sneak attack on the Citadel using the Conduit.

The reaper's aren't using the Conduit, Saren was to sneak onto the Citadel.  Sovereign just warped in from "somewhere" once Saren was ready.

Still what was the point?  A shortcut?  They entire reaper fleet is what? 3 years away.  To a human that's equivalent to the time it takes to walk to the bathroom.  Do you really worry about taking shortcuts for that? (I suppose that depends on the urgency actually )

Just take the 3 years, fly in, no one is even aware the reapers exist.  Send a Collector (which haven't been wiped out because no one would know they are reaper servants) to take over the citadel.  Use the Alpha Relay to zip in, attack, harvest, go home.

The whole scenario of them just floating right on into the milky way anyway just destroys any point to anything that has been done prior to that.  I assume this is intentional, what with the reboot in ME2, but I'm not sure about that.  I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility they just didn't think it through when coming up with the new plot for ME2.

[piemanz]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So that means they needed a sneak attack on the Citadel using the Conduit.

The reaper's aren't using the Conduit, Saren was to sneak onto the Citadel.  Sovereign just warped in from "somewhere" once Saren was ready.

Still what was the point?  A shortcut?  They entire reaper fleet is what? 3 years away.  To a human that's equivalent to the time it takes to walk to the bathroom.  Do you really worry about taking shortcuts for that? (I suppose that depends on the urgency actually )

Just take the 3 years, fly in, no one is even aware the reapers exist.  Send a Collector (which haven't been wiped out because no one would know they are reaper servants) to take over the citadel.  Use the Alpha Relay to zip in, attack, harvest, go home.

The whole scenario of them just floating right on into the milky way anyway just destroys any point to anything that has been done prior to that.  I assume this is intentional, what with the reboot in ME2, but I'm not sure about that.  I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility they just didn't think it through when coming up with the new plot for ME2.

Itkovian wrote...

I think I see your point... however there is a detail missing:

The Reapers CAN'T get to the Citadel and shut down the network anymore. Not after our victory in ME1.

The
pivotal point of the Reaper plan is that they can send a signal to the
Citadel, which has the keeper activate it and give complete control over
the Reapers. The Reapers jump in, use the Citadel to shut down
everything, and have fun.

On that level, no, using the Citadel to
jump in is not necessary. They could just have flown to the Alpha Relay
and then reached the Citadel, sent the signal and taken over. On that
level, jumping in through the Citadel is just a shortcut, a convenient
one that gives them an absolute element of surprised (which has a huge
value, mind you).

However, the Protheans went and screwed that
up. Now the Reapers can't just send a signal to the Citadel. In order to
activate and take over the Citadel, Sovereign needed to interface with
it directly. And in order to do that, he needed Saren to use the Conduit
to infiltrate it with the Geth and stop the defenders from closing the
Citadel.

And now? The Reapers can't use the Citadel anymore. The
moment a Reaper fleet comes in, the defenders can just close its arms
and it will be out of the Reaper's reach (even if they could blast it
open, that won't leave it very functional *grin*). So THAT part, that
MAJOR part of their plan is busted, including the element of surprise.

After all, if they could just jump in and take over the Citadel anyway, they would not have bothered with the Conduit.

So
there is still no inconsistencies. Sovereign's goal in ME1 was to take
over the citadel, and for that he needed the Conduit. He COULD have
waited for the Reaper fleet to come, but if his goal was to take over
the Citadel, what difference would that have made? He had the means to
take over it with Saren and the Geth, and the fleet battle was mostly
irrelevant, since it all hinged on having Saren open up the arms for
Sovereign to interface with the Citadel.

Thank you.

Itkovian.

Modifié par piemanz, 30 mars 2011 - 07:33 .

[Schattenkeil]

Why does the title of a book I like pop into my mind reading this thread's title? "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"?

[Whatever42]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So that means they needed a sneak attack on the Citadel using the Conduit.

The reaper's aren't using the Conduit, Saren was to sneak onto the Citadel.  Sovereign just warped in from "somewhere" once Saren was ready.

Still what was the point?  A shortcut?  They entire reaper fleet is what? 3 years away.  To a human that's equivalent to the time it takes to walk to the bathroom.  Do you really worry about taking shortcuts for that? (I suppose that depends on the urgency actually )

Just take the 3 years, fly in, no one is even aware the reapers exist.  Send a Collector (which haven't been wiped out because no one would know they are reaper servants) to take over the citadel.  Use the Alpha Relay to zip in, attack, harvest, go home.

The whole scenario of them just floating right on into the milky way anyway just destroys any point to anything that has been done prior to that.  I assume this is intentional, what with the reboot in ME2, but I'm not sure about that.  I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility they just didn't think it through when coming up with the new plot for ME2.

Because the conduit would have been uncovered by that point and made useless to them because Shepard was tracking it down. So no Saren and an army of Geth taking over the Citadel tower from the inside.

We've already covered why a frontal assault on the Citadel won't work - they'll just close it up. So that means no using the Citadel in their plans - no wiping out galactic government, no shutting down the relay network for their exclusive use. That means instead of a quick harvest, its an all-out war for centuries. That's bad. Lots of Reapers may die (they are not invincible).

[Il Divo]

Nozybidaj wrote...

The reaper's aren't using the Conduit, Saren was to sneak onto the Citadel.  Sovereign just warped in from "somewhere" once Saren was ready.

Still what was the point?  A shortcut?  They entire reaper fleet is what? 3 years away.  To a human that's equivalent to the time it takes to walk to the bathroom.  Do you really worry about taking shortcuts for that? (I suppose that depends on the urgency actually )

Just take the 3 years, fly in, no one is even aware the reapers exist.  Send a Collector (which haven't been wiped out because no one would know they are reaper servants) to take over the citadel.  Use the Alpha Relay to zip in, attack, harvest, go home.

The whole scenario of them just floating right on into the milky way anyway just destroys any point to anything that has been done prior to that.  I assume this is intentional, what with the reboot in ME2, but I'm not sure about that.  I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility they just didn't think it through when coming up with the new plot for ME2.

Because what you are proposing as an inconsistency still has several problems. Surprise attack from the Citadel has several advantages not obtained from using the Alpha relay, which others have pointed out.

1) Ability to shut down all secondary relays which would isolate all systems from each other.

2) Decapitate the head of Galactic Government.

3. Obtain records detailing the locations of all Organic settlements.

This is not to mention that the Alpha Relay requires the Reapers to expend excessive resources flying for 2 years, in addition to engaging in a long, destructive campaign.

[Nozybidaj]

piemanz wrote...
..snip....

/facepalm  The point you both of you aren't getting is if they can just fly on in they never needed the Citadel in the first place.  If they have the capability to fly the entire reaper army right up the Alpha Relay and zip around the galaxy even attempting to take the Citadel with a single reaper and a single fleshy indoctrinated agent risking revealing your presence to the galaxy is one of the dumbest and worst planned startegies in the history of strategies. 

The only way even attempting to regain control of Citadel after discovering the keepers are no longer reacting to the signal is if the Reapers are either 1) Incredibly desperate to get here and/or 2) It will take a really really long time to get here without it.

They risked (and lost) their element of surprise and even lost one of their own for what?  Cause they couldn't wait the 2 years to get here?  Really?  They are beings that live for thousands or millions of years and they really couldn't wait that long?

I suppose this is just another element coming from ME2 where I have to hold to the belief that everyone in the entire galaxy (reapers now included) are colossal idiots for the story to actually make sense.  /sigh

Because the conduit would have been uncovered by that point and made useless to them because Shepard was tracking it down.

Actually, it wouldn't have been found because no one would have been looking for it.  Saren would have never attacked Eden Prime, Shepard would never have been sent there and exposed to the it.  If they hadn't gambled everything on it they still would still completely hold the element of surprise.

They could have just floated right on in and gathered at the alpha relay, assembled the collector army, warp up to the citadel, the entire reaper army at one time would decimate whatever forces were there before anyone even knew what was happening.  Send the Collector army onboard the Citadel and take over.

If the reality is the Reapers really can just fly to the galaxy in 2 years then they took the biggest gamble of all time in ME1 with no real payoff even if they had succeeded.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 30 mars 2011 - 07:55 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Nozybidaj wrote...

The reaper's aren't using the Conduit, Saren was to sneak onto the Citadel.  Sovereign just warped in from "somewhere" once Saren was ready.

Still what was the point?  A shortcut?  They entire reaper fleet is what? 3 years away.  To a human that's equivalent to the time it takes to walk to the bathroom.  Do you really worry about taking shortcuts for that? (I suppose that depends on the urgency actually )

Just take the 3 years, fly in, no one is even aware the reapers exist.  Send a Collector (which haven't been wiped out because no one would know they are reaper servants) to take over the citadel.  Use the Alpha Relay to zip in, attack, harvest, go home.

The whole scenario of them just floating right on into the milky way anyway just destroys any point to anything that has been done prior to that.  I assume this is intentional, what with the reboot in ME2, but I'm not sure about that.  I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility they just didn't think it through when coming up with the new plot for ME2.

The reapers have no reason to be so overly cautious, Blow right past the citadel fleet and gain access to the citadel - open the relay and the harvest can begin, It all worked perfectly and without to much hazzle.

If you're going to examin the motives of game characters you have to take into account the game world - Soverign has Geth, Krogan Warlords, Krogan Battlemasters more Geth a buch of rocket towers dropships dropping of even more Geth protecting the Tower while he tries to access the computer, He has absolutely no Reason to belive that anybody would be abel to fight though that in a short time and really in game is there anybody who could?

No Soverign could't know that Shep is a hax who can figure out to stay in cover longer than nine seconds or dosen't have that impulse to run around mindlessly around the battlefield, Hell Shep can even fire at the same target for a prolonged time and move out of the way from rockets(whats up with that?).

In game Soverigns plan made perfect sense, It's shep who's really an out of game character that ruined it.

[AcidRelic]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So that means they needed a sneak attack on the Citadel using the Conduit.

The
reaper's aren't using the Conduit, Saren was to sneak onto the
Citadel.  Sovereign just warped in from "somewhere" once Saren was
ready.

Still what was the point?  A shortcut?  They entire reaper
fleet is what? 3 years away.  To a human that's equivalent to the time
it takes to walk to the bathroom.  Do you really worry about taking
shortcuts for that? (I suppose that depends on the urgency actually [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] )

Just
take the 3 years, fly in, no one is even aware the reapers exist.  ????Send
a Collector (which haven't been wiped out because no one would know
they are reaper servants) to take over the citadel. ???? Use the Alpha Relay
to zip in, attack, harvest, go home.

????The whole scenario of them
just floating right on into the milky way anyway just destroys any point
to anything that has been done prior to that.  I assume this is
intentional, what with the reboot in ME2, but I'm not sure about that.  I
wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility they just didn't think
it through when coming up with the new plot for ME2.????

THIS could be an answer. Read posts before posting, it might help.

piemanz wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

One HUGE problem in
waiting for the Reapers to arrive before attacking the Citadel. If the
Reapers would have attacked the Citadel head on, the Citadel would have
closed up and its also nearly indestructible and several orders of
magnitude bigger than a relay. The Reapers wouldn't want to destroy it
because that would likely shut down the relay network.

But
suddenly Sovereign and Saren uncover the second beacon. Then they
discover they need the cipher and get that. Now they know where the
conduit is and can launch an attack right inside the Citadel. Brilliant.
They'll just wait a few years for the Reapers and...

Damn, the
Council is on to them (as far as they know) and Shepard has had the same
visions and also knows where the Conduit is. Damn! Better hurry or
we'll lose the opportunity. Fortunately, we have this Geth armada to
help out. Should all be good. Nothing could go wrong.

Itkovian wrote...

I think I see your point... however there is a detail missing:

The Reapers CAN'T get to the Citadel and shut down the network anymore. Not after our victory in ME1.

The pivotal point of the Reaper plan is that they can send a signal to the Citadel, which has the keeper activate it and give complete control over the Reapers. The Reapers jump in, use the Citadel to shut down everything, and have fun.

On that level, no, using the Citadel to jump in is not necessary. They could just have flown to the Alpha Relay and then reached the Citadel, sent the signal and taken over. On that level, jumping in through the Citadel is just a shortcut, a convenient one that gives them an absolute element of surprised (which has a huge value, mind you).

However, the Protheans went and screwed that up. Now the Reapers can't just send a signal to the Citadel. In order to activate and take over the Citadel, Sovereign needed to interface with it directly. And in order to do that, he needed Saren to use the Conduit to infiltrate it with the Geth and stop the defenders from closing the Citadel.

And now? The Reapers can't use the Citadel anymore. The moment a Reaper fleet comes in, the defenders can just close its arms and it will be out of the Reaper's reach (even if they could blast it open, that won't leave it very functional *grin*). So THAT part, that MAJOR part of their plan is busted, including the element of surprise.

After all, if they could just jump in and take over the Citadel anyway, they would not have bothered with the Conduit.

So there is still no inconsistencies. Sovereign's goal in ME1 was to take over the citadel, and for that he needed the Conduit. He COULD have waited for the Reaper fleet to come, but if his goal was to take over the Citadel, what difference would that have made? He had the means to take over it with Saren and the Geth, and the fleet battle was mostly irrelevant, since it all hinged on having Saren open up the arms for Sovereign to interface with the Citadel.

Thank you.

Itkovian.

Nice posts....Explains it beautifuly.

They have had a plan that has worked for COUNTLESS ages. They wanted SURPRISE so other races are cut off from each other and can't band together to fight back.  Now they have opposition and are basiclly "winging it" To me it all makes sense and I don't find too many inconsistancies. That was the whole point of ME1 and in ME2 the point was about building a team and getting the emotion into the team for ME3, and continuing to build relations for ME3's big showdown IMHO. Yeah they could have done more about the Big Bad but it's a GREAT lead into the FINAL chapter. The Collector's building a Reaper also makes sense for them, after seeing the .... capabilities of humans through Shepard, want to use human gentics for a new Reaper.

[Alikain]

why do you guys find hard to believe that they made it this far to the alpha relay. if you believe that the reapers are the created of the mass relay then you should no that there is more than one alpha relay. just called it back-up plan. they always use the citadel to get back into dark space right. citadel have to connect to something else in dark space for them to come through.

[Il Divo]

AwesomeName wrote...

Yeah, if they explain that they can't open the Citadel from the outer hull, fair enough.  That'll cover it.  But, in addition to that, I hope they explain that getting to the Alpha relay somehow weakened them, just to further cement the fact the Sovereign's job was really important, plus it'll make our chance at winning much more believable.

It definitely has to. One of the primary concerns people have raised is how exactly we are going to fight the Reapers. If they've been flying for the last 2 years, they're not going to be at peak capactiy.

[Anacronian Stryx]

And now? The Reapers can't use the Citadel anymore. The moment a Reaper fleet comes in, the defenders can just close its arms and it will be out of the Reaper's reach (even if they could blast it open, that won't leave it very functional *grin*). So THAT part, that MAJOR part of their plan is busted, including the element of surprise.

Yeah that worked perfectly in ME1..oh wait seems like a Reaper can move faster than the arms can actually close...Damnation.

[Nozybidaj]

AcidRelic wrote...

THIS could be an answer. Read posts before posting, it might help.

Except it doesn't actually help answer anything, but whatever.  I shouldn't be surprised by it at this point.

Anacronian Stryx wrote...
In game Soverigns plan made perfect sense, It's shep who's really an out of game character that ruined it.

It makes perfect sense if there is either an element of time or desperation that forces them to take that gamble.  The point is if they can just fly here in a very short period of time regardless of success or failure of that plan then it makes no sense to take that gamble.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 30 mars 2011 - 08:04 .

[Itkovian]

Nozybidaj wrote...

piemanz wrote...
..snip....

/facepalm  The point you both of you aren't getting is if they can just fly on in they never needed the Citadel in the first place.  If they have the capability to fly the entire reaper army right up the Alpha Relay and zip around the galaxy even attempting to take the Citadel with a single reaper and a single fleshy indoctrinated agent risking revealing your presence to the galaxy is one of the dumbest and worst planned startegies in the history of strategies. 

The only way even attempting to regain control of Citadel after discovering the keepers are no longer reacting to the signal is if the Reapers are either 1) Incredibly desperate to get here and/or 2) It will take a really really long time to get here without it.

They risked (and lost) their element of surprise and even lost one of their own for what?  Cause they couldn't wait the 2 years to get here?  Really?  They are beings that live for thousands or millions of years and they really couldn't wait that long?

I suppose this is just another element coming from ME2 where I have to hold to the belief that everyone in the entire galaxy (reapers now included) are colossal idiots for the story to actually make sense.  /sigh

Please read what he quoted. My post detailed all the reasons they wanted to take the Citadel BEYOND the fact it'd save them a 2 year journey.

There is more to the Citadel than a convenient shortcut, and this is explained quite well by Vigil in ME1. That's why Sovereign bothered with the conduit, and that's why the Citadel is important. Otherwise, he would indeed have simply waited for the Reaper fleet to arrive.

Remember: Citadel is more than a shortcut. It always was. And now they can't use it. Dang.

Itkovian