328 réponses à ce sujet

[piemanz]

morrie23 wrote...


Edit, basically this could be fixed by having the non-Citadel route take a great toll on the Reapers, thus making the human Reaper plan more viable/desirable. Future information might straighten all this out, and I would happily welcome it.

A possible answer...

piemanz wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...



Fine,
aside from my totally incorrect use of the word "required" (I fully
admit to that, sorry), please look at everything else I'm saying. 
Clearly it was so damned important that Sovereign went through all that
trouble.  It must have been the safest way in.  Like I said, if the
Reapers could simply fly in, then Sovereign wouldn't have gone through
the trouble - he would have waited for them.  So they couldn't have
flown in.  LIKE I SAID, they must have used an alternative method of
getting in and it MUST have been more dangerous than using the citadel. 
I think you need to re-read the first post of mine you quoted.

Yea sorry i was mainly concetrating on the citadel part.

In
ME1 vigil says that the maybe the reapers go into some sort of
hibernation, it's possible that the fact they now have to travel the
distance at FTL is going to use energy that they otherwise would not
have used, meaning they could arrive in a somewhat weakened state.

We will have to wait and see.

[Lapis Lazuli]

If I remember correctly, the at the end of ME1 the quote was "the reapers are coming" or something like that. It wasn't "the reapers will fix the citadel trap and retry plan A"

[Almostfaceman]

Bad King wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Magnus4096 wrote...



Here we go again. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

They may as well have done this earlier to save Sovereign from all the painstaking work of building alliances and sending Saren on an EPIC FAIL QUEST. Even without the element of surprise, and even against a strong and unified galaxy, the reapers could still easily wipe out every galactic civilisation.

Fixed.

Fair enough

They didn't know it was going to fail.  It came within a hair-breadth of working.  The Reapers obviously didn't have a problem with the "zoom in and surprise" plan.  Sovereign dies - no skin off their noses - he was stuck watching the organics for 50,000 years because he called the Reaper-Leader's mom a wordy dird in the last invasion.  Your own logic is defeating you - if they're going to win one way or another - why not go for the surprise attack?  If you think they're going to win no matter what, why be irritated with the Saren plot?  It all ends the same anyway.  To prove it, as they move in 2 years later on the Alpha relay - if they get through they win.  Nobody believed Shepard enough to prepare for the Reapers.

[Lapis Lazuli]

If the reapers couldn't get here without the citadel, then they were defeated in ME1. End Trilogy.

[Whatever42]

AwesomeName, Sovereign got in with the arms closed because Saren had killed everyone in Citadel control and they couldn't close the arms until he did so later. If Saren hadn't invaded with his army through the conduit, those big arms would have closed and Sovereign would have been completely locked out and would not have been able to dock with that tower.

[JayhartRIC]

Saren was the one controlling the station's arms in ME1. He timed it so Sovereign could get through and keep the Council forces out. Also the Eden Prime beacon would have been found even if Sovereign never started looking for it. Then the Council races could have possibly been informed of the Reapers and been prepared for them anyway. What Sovereign and Saren did in ME1 was their best course of action. If Shepard didn't get a chance to use the Eden Prime beacon Sovereign would have probably succeeded.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Sursion wrote...

Or, an even more probable solution, they weren't that far away to begin with. Think about this: if you were robbing a building, would you rather teleport inside, grab what you need, and teleport out? Or break down the door, work your way through the building, revealing yourself to everyone.

Just because the Citadel is a better option, doesn't mean it's the only one.

This is what I've been considering as of late. The Batarian system is right on the edge of the galaxy. I say that if played AFTER the SM, the Reapers have been travelling for nearly 3 years since Sovereign's death (which I'm pretty sure the other Reapers were aware of) which would reasonably put them within another couple of days of finally reaching inhabited galactic area-- besides, think about it. There has to be a relay near the Reapers anyway. How ELSE would they get to the Citadel in the first place? So even if that relay was never turned on, they probably could have re-calibrated it to the Alpha relay or used parts to sustain themselves during their slow voyage.

Anyone else find it odd that in the first installment of ME2 (the main game) we have the Omega relay, and in the final DLC we have an Alpha relay? 
Weird. 

[Inutaisho7996]

Which would you rather do: fly from New York to London in 10 hours, or take a ship and get there in 3 months?

[Bad King]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Magnus4096 wrote...



Here we go again. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

They may as well have done this earlier to save Sovereign from all the painstaking work of building alliances and sending Saren on an EPIC FAIL QUEST. Even without the element of surprise, and even against a strong and unified galaxy, the reapers could still easily wipe out every galactic civilisation.

Fixed.

Fair enough

They didn't know it was going to fail.  It came within a hair-breadth of working.  The Reapers obviously didn't have a problem with the "zoom in and surprise" plan.  Sovereign dies - no skin off their noses - he was stuck watching the organics for 50,000 years because he called the Reaper-Leader's mom a wordy dird in the last invasion.  Your own logic is defeating you - if they're going to win one way or another - why not go for the surprise attack?  If you think they're going to win no matter what, why be irritated with the Saren plot?  It all ends the same anyway.  To prove it, as they move in 2 years later on the Alpha relay - if they get through they win.  Nobody believed Shepard enough to prepare for the Reapers.

They may as well have used the Alpha Relay plan as soon as they knew that Sovereign couldn't activate the Citadel Relay instead of waiting for over a millenium for Sovereign to build alliances and re-launch the attack (which ended up failing anyway).

Modifié par Bad King, 31 mars 2011 - 02:48 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Bad King wrote...

They may as well have used the Alpha Relay plan as soon as they knew that Sovereign couldn't activate the Citadel Relay instead of waiting for over a millenium for Sovereign to build alliances and re-launch the attack (which ended up failing anyway).

I still don't get this notion that people have that Sovereign spend thousands of years after he found out that the citadel wasn't working?

Are they talking about the Rachni?

[Nashiktal]

Do not forget that the citadel holds the census information of every official colonized world in the galaxy. They want that info to know where to strike so as to leave as little leaks as possible once they relays are shut down.

And after what happened with the protheans and their secret hideaway, i'm sure they will be extra diligent.

[Bad King]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Bad King wrote...

They may as well have used the Alpha Relay plan as soon as they knew that Sovereign couldn't activate the Citadel Relay instead of waiting for over a millenium for Sovereign to build alliances and re-launch the attack (which ended up failing anyway).

I still don't get this notion that people have that Sovereign spend thousands of years after he found out that the citadel wasn't working?

Are they talking about the Rachni?

Legion tells you that Sovereign had been gathering allies for 1000+ years.

Modifié par Bad King, 31 mars 2011 - 03:23 .

[Junri]

Nashiktal wrote...

Do not forget that the citadel holds the census information of every official colonized world in the galaxy. They want that info to know where to strike so as to leave as little leaks as possible once they relays are shut down.

And after what happened with the protheans and their secret hideaway, i'm sure they will be extra diligent.

Yeah, but they know where all the Citadel is. Remember all Mass Relays path all the way to the citadel. The moment they enter the galaxy I'm sure the Citadel will be one of the first targets they'll attack.

[Bad King]

Nashiktal wrote...

Do not forget that the citadel holds the census information of every official colonized world in the galaxy. They want that info to know where to strike so as to leave as little leaks as possible once they relays are shut down.

And after what happened with the protheans and their secret hideaway, i'm sure they will be extra diligent.

They could have got to the Citadel using the Alpha Relay. Even if the Citadel closed its arms, I don't fancy its chances against the entire Reaper fleet.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Bad King wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Bad King wrote...

They may as well have used the Alpha Relay plan as soon as they knew that Sovereign couldn't activate the Citadel Relay instead of waiting for over a millenium for Sovereign to build alliances and re-launch the attack (which ended up failing anyway).

I still don't get this notion that people have that Sovereign spend thousands of years after he found out that the citadel wasn't working?

Are they talking about the Rachni?

Legion tells you that Sovereign had been gathering allies for 1000+ years.

Yeah but this doesn't mean that Sovereign had already tried to activate the Citadel, Hell there can be a endless number of reasons as to why Sovereign has be "gathering allies" first and foremost to shape the events of the galaxy to suit the Reapers needs - Sovereign was a caretaker of sorts - even Vigil calls him that.

[samurai crusade]

Let me recap the Reapers plan thus far.
Citadel is the key for galactic reaping due to the census information....not to mention a hub for major military power (a Pearl Harbor if you will). It is the quickest and easiest way for the Reapers to do work. Until the Protheans ruined the Keeper signal. So Sovereign has to find a work around ie. the Conduit to bring the Reapers through the Citadel. Fail.
Meanwhile. Harbinger is conducting research on sentient species. Finding ways to kill everything but Humans in order to complete a Reaper (reason unknown). Fail.
Meanwhile.... the Reaper fleet has been marching towards the Alpha Relay in Batarian space. This relay allows them to chart a course much further than any other Relay... giving them a second option to attack quickly. Fail.
Now. The Reapers are still on the march but have to use conventional relays. Keep in mind FTL and all this movement uses resources... yes the Reapers still use Eezo and mass effect cores. So the Reapers will need to replenish resources when they reach a system... they are not going to be at full strength.

[Bad King]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Bad King wrote...

They may as well have used the Alpha Relay plan as soon as they knew that Sovereign couldn't activate the Citadel Relay instead of waiting for over a millenium for Sovereign to build alliances and re-launch the attack (which ended up failing anyway).

I still don't get this notion that people have that Sovereign spend thousands of years after he found out that the citadel wasn't working?

Are they talking about the Rachni?

Legion tells you that Sovereign had been gathering allies for 1000+ years.

Yeah but this doesn't mean that Sovereign had already tried to activate the Citadel, Hell there can be a endless number of reasons as to why Sovereign has be "gathering allies" first and foremost to shape the events of the galaxy to suit the Reapers needs - Sovereign was a caretaker of sorts - even Vigil calls him that.

Certainly a possibility, but there is still no evidence that Sovereign hadn't tried to activate the Citadel Relay 1000+ years ago. After failing to activate the relay, it would have taken Sovereign a long time to work out how he would activate the relay and it would have taken him even longer to carry out the plan. The other reapers may as well have begun their journey instead of waiting on Sovereign.

The other possibility is that Harbinger and the Reapers actually began their journey towards the Milky Way before the events of Mass Effect 1- perhaps they had been travelling towards the galaxy for hundreds of years as soon as they had discovered that Sovereign couldn't access the Citadel relay.

Modifié par Bad King, 31 mars 2011 - 03:46 .

[Spectreshadow]

Bad King wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Bad King wrote...

They may as well have used the Alpha Relay plan as soon as they knew that Sovereign couldn't activate the Citadel Relay instead of waiting for over a millenium for Sovereign to build alliances and re-launch the attack (which ended up failing anyway).

I still don't get this notion that people have that Sovereign spend thousands of years after he found out that the citadel wasn't working?

Are they talking about the Rachni?

Legion tells you that Sovereign had been gathering allies for 1000+ years.

Yeah but this doesn't mean that Sovereign had already tried to activate the Citadel, Hell there can be a endless number of reasons as to why Sovereign has be "gathering allies" first and foremost to shape the events of the galaxy to suit the Reapers needs - Sovereign was a caretaker of sorts - even Vigil calls him that.

Certainly a possibility, but there is still no evidence that Sovereign hadn't tried to activate the Citadel Relay 1000+ years ago. After failing to activate the relay, it would have taken Sovereign a long time to work out how he would activate the relay and it would have taken him even longer to carry out the plan. The other reapers may as well have begun their journey instead of waiting on Sovereign.

The other possibility is that Harbinger and the Reapers actually began their journey towards the Milky Way before the events of Mass Effect 1- perhaps they had been travelling towards the galaxy for hundreds of years as soon as they had discovered that Sovereign couldn't access the Citadel relay.

There is no evidence of this but it can be strongly suggested that the Rachni Wars was the first major attempt of Sovereign to begin the harvest.  I would say if the Salarians didn't find the Krogan it likely would have succeded.

[tcn-talon]

To all of the people in this thread who believe that what we are seeing at the end of ME2 is the Reapers powering up for the first time and beginning their journey toward the galaxy: Learn your cinema, people.

The shot in question is the moment when we begin by seeing one Reaper, and the circle of light quickly expands outward to reveal first dozens, then hundreds, then thousands of Reapers, all hell-bent on making it to the galaxy and ending all things for everyone. This is what is known in cinema as a Reveal Shot. Yes, it is intended for dramatic effect. We are being shown for the first time the scope of the problem the galaxy is facing and just how hopeless the situation is. We are also being shown as a reminder just how large the galaxy is and how small we are when compared to it. The angles used also imply that the galaxy isn't quite so large to the Reapers, who view things on a grander scale. The galaxy is theirs, for whatever purpose they intend, and we are nothing more than a component of their property.

So, all of you saying, "What we are seeing is their lights coming on, they all just woke up and started their journey so them being two days away from the Alpha Relay doesn't make sense", I apologize but I am afraid you MISSED THE POINT ENTIRELY. And shame on you, because as Reveal Shots go that was one of the best I've seen in a video game or movie in a long time.

[jasonsantanna]

Could be that the Citadel was the Reapers main entrance into our galaxy as a fleet, because they are so large and many this was the most viable option, enter Shep and crew that was foiled so plan B , the contingency entrance a small relay only two years away , but only able to allow 1 reaper @ a time through, that plan foiled, the plan C destroy suns which create blackholes so the reaper fleets may pass through, Haestrom , dark energy which has been hinted on in ME2 .

[Whatever42]

Bad King wrote...

They could have got to the Citadel using the Alpha Relay. Even if the Citadel closed its arms, I don't fancy its chances against the entire Reaper fleet.

Perhaps not but could they reliably take the Citadel without destroying it in the process? Destroying it likely wrecks the entire relay system which would not only screw the Reapers ability to reap us but would significantly impair any future reaping ability.