51 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I gave feedback on their site but haven't received a response. The Vault allows a modder to post multiple files having to do with a single mod. For example, I have posted major releases for my mods and then patches. Does GMod allow that? It didn't look like it to me when I looked around.

Regards

[Kreisher]

ArtEChoke wrote...

Kreisher, could you explain a little about the purpose of your site?

My only point of comparison is Moddb - which has forums, dev blogs, user galleries (video, and so on), user blogs, project groups, development "clubs) (3d group, scripter group, concept art group, etc.) and the obligatory content dump for all the mods and downloads...

Gmod appears to be a content dump - what's your angle? Also, it looks like you're only focusing on rpgs... deliberate?

We've put a lot of effort into developing the UI of the site in a way that allows users to find and share content.  We have all the features of Moddb that you mentioned (plus a few) but we've believe the interface is easier to manage and navigate.  For instance we have unique "Game Profile" pages for each game, complete with featured content and categories specifically designed for that game.  

We also have a new feature we are polishing up called "Talk" (found on the game profile page) that acts as a news wall for all the user content coming through about that game.  This includes Blogs, forum posts, mod reviews, mod comments, mod news, and new mod uploads.  We think this is a great way for people to find mods others are using.  

The "Mod Library" is another example of what sets our site apart.  When you review, comment on, rate, or say "add to library", the mod gets added to your personal library of mods.  This allows you to easily go back and review content you've previously used.  You can also check out your friends library to see what they recommend.

There are plenty of other design choices we've taken with the site that I've not mentioned here.  We are trying really hard to develop a system that enables great mod developers to get the exposure they deserve. 

[kamal_]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

I dont see why anyone would put a vault mod up and NOT want it shared in other websites. Whats the point?

It's simple, they didn't ask.

"hey kamal, we think you made a cool mod and we'd like to put it on x" and I'd have said yes. But they didn't.

[Kreisher]

Kamal - as I said before - I very much apologize for not properly contact you. We've removed you mod as you requested, but if there is anything I can do to make things right, please let me know.

[Kreisher]

Clyordes wrote...

Kreisher - another question:
One of the main issues mentioned above is re keeping the mods on your site up to date. Some of us may be unwilling/unable to keep 'their' files updated on more than one site - so if we keep our files current on the vault, will your people be able to keep the Gmod versions current too?

Cly.

I wish we had a work around for this.  We've been looking into developing tools that auto-update content from multiple sources - but we're trying to avoid scraping other sites.  It's not that we can't scrape other sites - but we don't like the idea of it and are looking for better options.  The content we've uploaded for the closed beta was manually uploaded - which took a very very long time.  

If you have any suggestions - I'm very open to new ideas.  

In the long run, we'd like to become the one-stop-shop for all mods.  We're are trying extreamly hard to create the best experience on the internet for finding and sharing mods.  We want to be the youtube of mods where we have enough traffic that you don't have any reason to post your content on another site.  

[Kreisher]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

I gave feedback on their site but haven't received a response. The Vault allows a modder to post multiple files having to do with a single mod. For example, I have posted major releases for my mods and then patches. Does GMod allow that? It didn't look like it to me when I looked around.

Regards

We have a way of posting new versions of the mod, but we don't currently have an option for creating a patch for an existing version of a mod.  When on the mod profile for a mod you've created - under the "Download" button you should see a link that says "All versions".  If you click this you will see a list of all the versions you've uploaded (user of the mod can also see these other versions).  If you choose "New Version" then you have the option of uploading another version of the mod.  (Note: if you click the Upload link - rather than New Version - the file you upload will REPLACE the version listed next to the upload link you clicked).  As its set up right now, whichever version you've uploaded most recently is the one that is downloaded if the user clicks the big "download" button.  They could theoretically click the "all versions" and choose another version - but if they don't know to look for a patch or don't see that option may be out of luck.  

I took a screenshot of this - check out the image HERE

We are creating an option for "upload a patch", which will allow you to upload a patch for various versions of your mod.  We will also change the visual elements to make it more clear that patches are available and which patch goes with which version.  

This is really good feedback - thank you for pointing this out.  You're what sparked our decision to add this feature!

[Shaughn78]

Kreisher, I want to repeat Kaldor's question on simple updating of modules with the abilty to upload multiple different files to download.

As builders we have been creating ways to make updating our content simpler for players. We often upload smaller files to patch our content. Does your site allow for this? These are community modules and bugs will get through the testing period. We need to have a way to contine to offer the players a way to quickly and easily update the modules without having to download the entire thing over again.


***Edit**

You answered this question while I made this post.

Modifié par Shaughn78, 07 avril 2011 - 11:17 .

[ArtEChoke]

Sounds good, Kreisher, thanks for the response.

I take it you have to be logged in to see all of the functionality?

[painofdungeoneternal]

Sounds like a chicken or the egg problem. Right now the NWN2 community is on the vault. To change that they would have to shut down the vault, or offer something they don't that really matters.

You could release a tool to manage content, which could integrate with the vault and your content, and allow us to be on both and easier. Uploading content to the vault is a bit of a pain, and knowing what to download, ie if you have DMFI you get this version, if not you get that one.

To make it worthwhile you'd have to offer tools which integrate with NWN2 and are similar to the Autodownloader feature we use for persistent worlds. We use drop box now for that. If something like that was to be put into effect for NWN2, using the same xml files conveniently listing what is needed, well we'd have something, especially if i could as a developer configure it to have some intelligence depending on what else a user already has installed. It already has the various haks needed and a way to manage them. Toolset integration on the developer side perhaps.

Of course this is much more likely to be developed by folks in this community, the autodownloader was developed for the actual game by a programmer who was a member and got hired to help with the last patch, and we've already had various installers for online play. The other issue is installers need to be able to grok our game formats and do merging ( note we have a library for this as well developed by skywing ). I really don't see patching properly knowing how to patch a 2da file when you have 2 projects being used by the same person.

Not sure how big the nwn1, nwn2 community is for you, which tends to be why most work like this tends to be done by folks who care more about love of the game than making money at it. Frankly if you started working on something like this i'd lay out 50/50 odds some community member beats you to the release and has something far more elaborate and polished. Might even be me if i got bored enough to tackle all that.

But regardless if we did such a thing we'd need an API/cloud to support such, and having our stuff in two places would be good if IGN ever decided to shut down the vault.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 07 avril 2011 - 11:28 .

[Kreisher]

ArtEChoke (and anyone else on this forum wanting to check out the site), if you want to create an account and then let me know what your username is - I can go in an activate your account manually.

[Kreisher]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Sounds like a chicken or the egg problem. Right now the NWN2 community is on the vault. To change that they would have to shut down the vault, or offer something they don't that really matters.

You could release a tool to manage content, which could integrate with the vault and your content, and allow us to be on both and easier. Uploading content to the vault is a bit of a pain, and knowing what to download, ie if you have DMFI you get this version, if not you get that one.

To make it worthwhile you'd have to offer tools which integrate with NWN2 and are similar to the Autodownloader feature we use for persistent worlds. We use drop box now for that. If something like that was to be put into effect for NWN2, using the same xml files conveniently listing what is needed, well we'd have something, especially if i could as a developer configure it to have some intelligence depending on what else a user already has installed. It already has the various haks needed and a way to manage them. Toolset integration on the developer side perhaps.

Of course this is much more likely to be developed by folks in this community, the autodownloader was developed for the actual game by a programmer who was a member and got hired to help with the last patch, and we've already had various installers for online play. The other issue is installers need to be able to grok our game formats and do merging ( note we have a library for this as well developed by skywing ). I really don't see patching properly knowing how to patch a 2da file when you have 2 projects being used by the same person.

Not sure how big the nwn1, nwn2 community is for you, which tends to be why most work like this tends to be done by folks who care more about love of the game than making money at it. Frankly if you started working on something like this i'd lay out 50/50 odds some community member beats you to the release and has something far more elaborate and polished. Might even be me if i got bored enough to tackle all that.

But regardless if we did such a thing we'd need an API/cloud to support such, and having our stuff in two places would be good if IGN ever decided to shut down the vault.

Yep - the chicken and egg problem is our biggest concern and we are doing everything we can to alleviate the issue.  The Vault sites (or Moddb / nexusforums / curse / etc. ) aren't going anywhere anytime soon - which means we have to create compelling reasons for people to post content on our site.  The sites design and single minded focus on mods is one reason - and the other is the installer.  


We have half our team working on a very robust installer / content manager for mods.  The system will 1. Auto-update 2. Check for known compatibility issues 3. backup files before installing 4. check for collision (overwriting) issues between mods and 5. uninstall mods.

We hope to have this installer tool out mid summer - and will be extending the site beta to include the installer beta in May.  We're trying to build intelligence into the system so it learns when issues arise.  

Question: If we developed a tool that allowed you to sync your mod updates accross multiple sites - would you use it?

Modifié par Kreisher, 07 avril 2011 - 11:48 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

As long as someone's listening, let me lay out a wishlist:
1)Feedback. Modding only really works when everybody is talking to each other, players reporting bugs, builders explaining bugs, players recommending modules to other players. The only way you can get that kind of feedback going is with a big, concentrated community. This is one reason people are less than enthusiastic about a new site, it dilutes the community. It's bad enough that we're split now between the IGN Vault, this Site, and the defunct old BioWare forums, not to mention bits and pieces on Steam, Atari, and even the GitP forums. Another site just isn't gonna help anything, not unless you got some brilliant new message board technology you're not telling us about.

2)Publicity. One of the cruel ironies of modding is that by the time people have figured out how to mod the game properly, the game is so old that almost no one remembers it, or just remembers how buggy the initial release was way back when. The only real advantage I could see to a site like yours is if you managed to attract players from newer games back to older games with a more established collection of mods. Essentially, you have to tell players that if they like mod A from game X, they'll probably also like mod B from game Y. Amazon does a good of this, but all I saw on GMod was a bunch of icons crammed into seemingly random categories. If you can't even fit the title of the mod on the page, how are people gonna know what it's like?

It all smacks of a cheap attempt to mine free content for page clicks, without any respect for what the community actually needs or wants, and of course with little to no respect for the amount of work modders put into their art. That sounds a bit irrationally hyperbolic, and of course it is, but that's the way customer service works, you have to earn our trust, and our respect.

[Kreisher]

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

As long as someone's listening, let me lay out a wishlist:
1)Feedback. Modding only really works when everybody is talking to each other, players reporting bugs, builders explaining bugs, players recommending modules to other players. The only way you can get that kind of feedback going is with a big, concentrated community. This is one reason people are less than enthusiastic about a new site, it dilutes the community. It's bad enough that we're split now between the IGN Vault, this Site, and the defunct old BioWare forums, not to mention bits and pieces on Steam, Atari, and even the GitP forums. Another site just isn't gonna help anything, not unless you got some brilliant new message board technology you're not telling us about.

2)Publicity. One of the cruel ironies of modding is that by the time people have figured out how to mod the game properly, the game is so old that almost no one remembers it, or just remembers how buggy the initial release was way back when. The only real advantage I could see to a site like yours is if you managed to attract players from newer games back to older games with a more established collection of mods. Essentially, you have to tell players that if they like mod A from game X, they'll probably also like mod B from game Y. Amazon does a good of this, but all I saw on GMod was a bunch of icons crammed into seemingly random categories. If you can't even fit the title of the mod on the page, how are people gonna know what it's like?

It all smacks of a cheap attempt to mine free content for page clicks, without any respect for what the community actually needs or wants, and of course with little to no respect for the amount of work modders put into their art. That sounds a bit irrationally hyperbolic, and of course it is, but that's the way customer service works, you have to earn our trust, and our respect.

Hey Lugaid,

Feedback: Do you have an account on the site?  If so you should check out all the sharring options we have available.  You can message your friends, write on someones wall and leave a comment on the mod profile page.  All of these actions then ping you as a developer letting you know you have feedback.  The social system is a lot like facebook.

Publicity:  Total agree.  We have a "recommendations engine" similiar to the one you described on our roadmap.  The system will suggest mods (from the same game) similiar to the mod you are viewing.  If you've informed the site that you own other games - then we will suggest similiar mods from those games you say you own.  There are tons of great mods out there for games that people may own but havent played in awhile that are just waiting to be explored.

As for the suggestion that we are "mining free content".  First - We don't have ads on the site (and will avoid having them as long as we possible can) so page clicks don't mean much.  Second - Our team is ALL about mods.  We began Gmod originally back in 2005 with some custom installers for Farcry, Doom 3 and HL2 and have been wanting to get back in and do something amazing for the community ever since.  I personally got into modding in 2002 with Morrowind - I know the dedication you put into your projects and have absolute respect for the mod community.  But talk is cheap, we will have to win your respect and trust over time by being a honest and reliable company - which we fully and completely intend to do.

 

Modifié par Kreisher, 08 avril 2011 - 02:08 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Kreisher,

I appreciate your posts. That goes a long way in my book.

Regards

[Shaughn78]

Kreisher wrote...
We don't have ads on the site (and will avoid having them as long as we possible can) so page clicks don't mean much.  

I may be a bit cynical but the above quote seems in direct conflict with another article I read about your site.

"Olympus will make money via a combination of advertising and subscriptions, with the subscription costing around $9 per quarter. Players can pay for a subscription and have access to the installer to get all available mods easily. Or they can watch a short ad whenever they download something. One of the obstacles for monetization is that game companies often don’t allow mods of their games to be sold for profit, so they must often be given away for free."

So if we do pay the subscriptions, you won't  force us to see adds, for now?

source: http://venturebeat.c...ds-marketplace/

Modifié par Shaughn78, 08 avril 2011 - 01:48 .

[Kreisher]

Shaughn78 wrote...

Kreisher wrote...
We don't have ads on the site (and will avoid having them as long as we possible can) so page clicks don't mean much.  

I may be a bit cynical but the above qute seems in direct conflcit with another article I read about your site.

"Olympus will make money via a combination of advertising and subscriptions, with the subscription costing around $9 per quarter. Players can pay for a subscription and have access to the installer to get all available mods easily. Or they can watch a short ad whenever they download something. One of the obstacles for monetization is that game companies often don’t allow mods of their games to be sold for profit, so they must often be given away for free."

So if we do pay the subsrciptions you won't force us to see adds, for now?

source: http://venturebeat.c...ds-marketplace/

Let me try to explain without giving too much away:

First, we don't plan to have banner ads and the like on the site.

Second, active mod developers and commited members of the community will be given a subscription at no cost.  We accomplish this by assigning points to various activities (including your mod being downloaded), the points then go toward your subscription.  You can also "spend" ponts on various promotional events - such as an all expenses paid trip to PAX.

Finally, non active members that want to use the installer will have the option of either paying for a subscription or watching a short video ad each time they install a mod.  
 
We will also have options whereby users can donate to developers - either with paypal or by watching a video - this money would then be given directly to the developer.

So - to reiterate - active mod developers will NOT see video ads or be asked to pay for a subscription.

Modifié par Kreisher, 08 avril 2011 - 05:21 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Will the installer be OS X compatible or only support Windows (XP?, Vista?, 7?)?

[MokahTGS]

Kreisher wrote...

ArtEChoke (and anyone else on this forum wanting to check out the site), if you want to create an account and then let me know what your username is - I can go in an activate your account manually.

I've been waiting for approval...username of "mokahtgs"

There's a NWN mod I can upload as well as area prefabs if you have a catagory for that.

[MokahTGS]

Modifié par MokahTGS, 08 avril 2011 - 08:54 .

[0100010]

Your taking steps in the right direction at least by maintaining communications here. You may want to step t up a notch and visit the nwn2cr IRC channel as well, a large number of the modders with in depth knowledge of the problems you may be facing regarding managing NWN content are on frequently. (find it via the stickied topic in general discussions)

Some have mod installers for NWN2 already in the works as well as hosts of other tools used for the modders themselves. Other mods are in the form of game play and content expansion rather than a whole self contained story mod. (such as Kaedrin's PRC pack) How are you going to handle that ype of content? Will such people have 'free subscriptions' even though that just make things that other mod makers use? (models, animations, scripting systems, etc.)

As an additional result of the above there are many haks, 2das and other content files which is in the process of being synced up so as to minimize the downloading costs and time. For example if you already have downloaded pain's mosnter pack (a standard hak) for Mod A, you don't need it download it again for Mod B (provided both mods use it in the same way and w/ the same name, etc) These are things that community has already been handling and working out for a while.

As for your site in general. Where is your link to steam for someone to purchase NWN2 platinum?
http://store.steampo...d.com/app/2760/
Don't you think it would be a good idea to encourage people who may not have the game but see a mod they like the sound of to know where to go and buy it? This should not apply just to NWN2 of course, (where old game purchases are possible anyway)

Modifié par 0100010, 09 avril 2011 - 12:27 .

[Kreisher]

MokahTGS: Just sent you an email with a registration key. If you don't see it let me know. My username is Sumwon - friend me when you have your account up.

Kaldor Silverwand: We don't currently have plans to support the Mac. We're writing the installer in C- (.net), to support the Mac we'd have to rewrite it in C. The Mac just doesn't support enough games to make it worth developing for at this point.

[Kreisher]

 

0100010 wrote...
Your taking steps in the right direction at least by maintaining communications here. You may want to step t up a notch and visit the nwn2cr IRC channel as well, a large number of the modders with in depth knowledge of the problems you may be facing regarding managing NWN content are on frequently. (find it via the stickied topic in general discussions)
Some have mod installers for NWN2 already in the works as well as hosts of other tools used for the modders themselves. Other mods are in the form of game play and content expansion rather than a whole self contained story mod. (such as Kaedrin's PRC pack) How are you going to handle that ype of content? Will such people have 'free subscriptions' even though that just make things that other mod makers use? (models, animations, scripting systems, etc.)
As an additional result of the above there are many haks, 2das and other content files which is in the process of being synced up so as to minimize the downloading costs and time. For example if you already have downloaded pain's mosnter pack (a standard hak) for Mod A, you don't need it download it again for Mod B (provided both mods use it in the same way and w/ the same name, etc) These are things that community has already been handling and working out for a while. 
As for your site in general. Where is your link to steam for someone to purchase NWN2 platinum?http://store.steampowered.com/app/2760/Don't you think it would be a good idea to encourage people who may not have the game but see a mod they like the sound of to know where to go and buy it? This should not apply just to NWN2 of course, (where old game purchases are possible anyway)

Great questions, I'll do my best to answer them:

You may want to step t up a notch and visit the nwn2cr IRC channel as well, a large number of the modders with in depth knowledge of the problems you may be facing regarding managing NWN content are on frequently.

Thanks for the heads up - I'll check it out this weekend.  I'll also forward the info on to the installer dev team - them may have some specific questions for the community.

Some have mod installers for NWN2 already in the works as well as hosts of other tools used for the modders themselves. Other mods are in the form of game play and content expansion rather than a whole self contained story mod. (such as Kaedrin's PRC pack) How are you going to handle that type of content?

In addition to the installer we have a super robust launcher / downloader we're going to license (the same one that will be used by SWTOR).  This will allow us to do cool things like runs diffs against different mod content - which will be useful for patching mods to the newest version.  As for files that are re-used by mod packs, we will probably end up downloading the full mod (including the redundant content).  The cost / time to download is fairly nominal, its the installation that will be more troublesome.  We are aware of these types of shared component cases and are designing the installer to handle them.  

Will such people have 'free subscriptions' even though that just make things that other mod makers use? (models, animations, scripting systems, etc.)

If the mod pack / compilation is popular then yes.  We don't distinguish between original and reworked content.  However this does bring up a good point.  The way we have the mod upload process set up right now, a developer can give credit to multiple developers who's work they are using.  A great example is the oblivion mod Kavatch Rebuilt.  The mod was made using content from 16 different developers - and each developer is listed in the credits.  You also have the option of giving credit depending on the role the developer played in making the mod.  For instance, you can credit the person who developed the textures as "artists" and the person who wrote the scripts as "programmer".

As an additional result of the above there are many haks, 2das and other content files which is in the process of being synced up so as to minimize the downloading costs and time. For example if you already have downloaded pain's mosnter pack (a standard hak) for Mod A, you don't need it download it again for Mod B (provided both mods use it in the same way and w/ the same name, etc) These are things that community has already been handling and working out for a while.

Answered this above I think.  We are trying our best to build an installer thats versatile enough to handle most every situation for every game.  As we get further into the dev process on the installer - we would love to get it in the hands of mod devs so we can get feedback / suggestions.  I'll keep everyone posted as we get closer to the point.

As for your site in general. Where is your link to steam for someone to purchase NWN2 platinum?http://store.steampowered.com/app/2760/Don't you think it would be a good idea to encourage people who may not have the game but see a mod they like the sound of to know where to go and buy it? This should not apply just to NWN2 of course, (where old game purchases are possible anyway)

Yep - on our roadmap.  We're currently in closed beta but recommending various games to purchase is certainly something we will do.  Our office is actually located less then 2 blocks from Valve and across the street from the new Bungie office (we can see both from our windows).

Modifié par Kreisher, 09 avril 2011 - 02:29 .

[Obadiah]

Glad I found this topic. Just going to bump it for any of the other NWN2 modders that missed it the first time around and are wandering why their mod showed up on another site as a download.

[bealzebub]

I was just looking at GMod.com and noticed that the most downloaded mod, (Zork- the Great Underground Empire) has a total of 6 downloads. The next highest has 2, and then 1,1,1,1,0,0...
If this is true, the site has only had 12 downloads since it started.