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[BeljoraDien]

I find all these comments much more interesting than the DA:O vs. DA2 threads... There needs to be a poll for DA2 vs. Awakening.

[Archontic]

BeljoraDien wrote...

I find all these comments much more interesting than the DA:O vs. DA2 threads... There needs to be a poll for DA2 vs. Awakening.

These people need a forum so I can see a more diverse range of threads. These debates are all centered around beating a dead horse. Some of the arguments are well-written and intelligent, but it's still the same stuff any of us (presumably) have seen already. If it has to be anywhere, it should be on MetaCritic.

[Reinveil]

Archontic wrote...

BeljoraDien wrote...

I find all these comments much more interesting than the DA:O vs. DA2 threads... There needs to be a poll for DA2 vs. Awakening.

These people need a forum so I can see a more diverse range of threads. These debates are all centered around beating a dead horse. Some of the arguments are well-written and intelligent, but it's still the same stuff any of us (presumably) have seen already. If it has to be anywhere, it should be on MetaCritic.

Yes, people have no business voicing their disappointment about a game they paid for on the developer's forum, they should head to Metacritic.  Because it's really just about patting each other on the back and reinforcing mindless, venomous opinions for the sake of doing so.  And not at all because a substantial portion of Bioware's fans feel let down and are wondering what happened.

You'd see a more diverse range of threads if the game wasn't heavily flawed.  But hey, we should ignore that and quarantine the critics so you don't have to wade through it.  And it's not like we have to read the same tired defenses over and over again.  Oh wait...

I agree, the bickering is tiresome.  But the devs themselves locked a thread for making a similar suggestion earlier.  Because complaining about the complaining isn't productive, and what you propose isn't fair.  I don't think the people that enjoy the game should have to be locked into their own board or sent elsewhere, even if I disagree with them and am tired of reading the same arguments.  The far easier (and reasonable) thing to do is to go somewhere else if it really bothers you that much.

Edit: Unless you're suggesting everyone debating the issue should have their own board, in which case this one would become a ghost town.  Damn near every thread eventually turns into an argument, regardless of the OP's initial post.  Some of that will eventually die down, I think, but DAII is obviously a very polarizing game.

Modifié par Reinveil, 31 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[Icinix]

Awakening was awesome. Choices mattered and consequences could be severe.

...

...then there was DA2...

[Cutlass Jack]

JaegerBane wrote...

Reinveil wrote...
One way that Awakening absolutely kills the sequel, however, is in it's environments. Kal'Hirol alone destroys anything in DAII. Such fantastic artistic design during that sequence.

Absolutely. Even without considering it as just an expansion, the sheer range of environments in Awakening was brilliant. DA2 was pretty drab by comparison.

Now I know you people are having me on. Awakening was completely uninspired. Or rather directly inspired from Origins. DA2's were very original and distinctive, even if some maps were overused. Which really isn't a crime Awakening is innocent of.

[Persephone]

Icinix wrote...

Awakening was awesome. Choices mattered and consequences could be severe.

...

...then there was DA2...

Choices in Awakening mattered how?

Granted, I hate Awakening with a passion....but it's supposed choices only influenced (again) epilogue slides. Never mind that I hate the Epilogue Slides Awakening dumped on my Wardens. Awakening, while it still has an interesting plot, is the worst Bioware game I have ever played.

[Persephone]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

In Awakening It's up to you if Vigil's Keep and Amaranthine are destroyed and you also decide the fate of Architect.
In Dragon Age 2 you decide nothing.

Technically, speaking of game engine, DA2 is better though.

Never mind that saving either of the two leads to the same conclusion and killing or sparing the Architect makes little to no difference either.

My Hawke decided plenty of things and her personality, her relationships and her companions changed/evolved based on that. As did the story.

[Seblin]

Awakenings as an expansion had more unique areas than DA2 as an entire game did. At least it felt that way.(I don't know the statistics but I can make some up if it helps)

[Persephone]

Seblin wrote...

Awakenings as an expansion had more unique areas than DA2 as an entire game did. At least it felt that way.(I don't know the statistics but I can make some up if it helps)

I believe the quantity of enviroments, while interesting, is not a deciding factor in the end. Not to me, anyway.

[Marionetten]

Persephone wrote...

Never mind that saving either of the two leads to the same conclusion and killing or sparing the Architect makes little to no difference either.

They don't. If you decide to save Amaranthine you will actually go into Amaranthine and fight the darkspawn inside. If you decide to burn it down... well, you don't. Instead you head for Vigil's Keep. These are two completely different scenarios. Killing the Architect doesn't matter much because it's done at the very end of the game. The sequel was expected to carry the consequences for this choice. Needless to say, it didn't.

Persephone wrote...

My Hawke decided plenty of things and her personality, her relationships and her companions changed/evolved based on that. As did the story.

Not really. No matter what you decide the ending remains the exact same. BioWare did a HUGE cop out with the whole everyone is evil solution. They should have offered unique endgame scenarios depending on your choices. They didn't. Instead they decided to railroad every single Hawke into the same mediocre conclusion. Disappointing.

Modifié par Marionetten, 31 mars 2011 - 01:55 .

[1Nosphorus1]

Persephone wrote...
My Hawke decided plenty of things and her personality, her relationships and her companions changed/evolved based on that. As did the story.

I wouldn't call that plenty, I'd call that a few.

[SPOILERS BELOW THIS LINE]
--------------------------------------------




You couldn't decide her name, you couldn't decide which family member lives, you couldn't change the fate of your mother, you have a handful of relationships which apparently take nearly a decade to bloom, Hawke quotes the maker in combat and afaik couldn't change his/her disposition towards him, even if you play as a good natured/helpful Hawke you still end up charming with the same repulsive pushyness that sarcastic Hawke spews, and the plot would've been fine if Hawke hadn't of been involved at all.

Infact I'm starting to think that Hawke didn't actually exist and it's all in Varrics imagination, after all how can Kirkwall suddenly not know what Hawke looks like after a few years if he's the most important person in the world?

[gingerbill]

Volourn wrote...

"We had Oghren (the best Dragon Age companion by far), "

Kiddin' right? He's in the bottom 3 of DA series companions. heck, he's bottom 5 of BIO's worst npcs of all time. If he wasn't a dwarf 9that I'm biased in favor of), I'd hate him even more!!!

agreed , oghren was a very boring stereotype character , one of the worst characters bioware has ever done , someone like varric is a mile ahead of him in writing and VO.

Personally i think DA2 was far better than awakenings but not as good as DAO

[Persephone]

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
My Hawke decided plenty of things and her personality, her relationships and her companions changed/evolved based on that. As did the story.

I wouldn't call that plenty, I'd call that a few.

[SPOILERS BELOW THIS LINE]
--------------------------------------------




You couldn't decide her name, you couldn't decide which family member lives, you couldn't change the fate of your mother, you have a handful of relationships which apparently take nearly a decade to bloom, Hawke quotes the maker in combat and afaik couldn't change his/her disposition towards him, even if you play as a good natured/helpful Hawke you still end up charming with the same repulsive pushyness that sarcastic Hawke spews, and the plot would've been fine if Hawke hadn't of been involved at all.

Infact I'm starting to think that Hawke didn't actually exist and it's all in Varrics imagination, after all how can Kirkwall suddenly not know what Hawke looks like after a few years if he's the most important person in the world?

Oh I could name her just as easily as my Cousland, my Amell, my Tabris etc. So what's the problem? 

No, in real life I also couldn't "decide" that my little sister died from cancer or that my mother died when I was not yet twenty. Your point being?

My romances all blossomed in Act II.

Not all my Hawkes quoted the Maker in her battle cries or were goody goody Chantry believers.

Aw, you don't like snarky Hawke. Yes, that makes the game "repulsive". And she most certainly influenced the plot greatly.

As for not knowing a hero's looks....it's a common part of hero worship. We have no agreed upon likenesses of King Arthur, Robin Hood etc. etc.

Modifié par Persephone, 31 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[Icinix]

Persephone wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Awakening was awesome. Choices mattered and consequences could be severe.

...

...then there was DA2...

Choices in Awakening mattered how?

Off the top of my head..
You could go an entirely different end misison - City or keep.
There were numerous ways to deal with the whispers of dissent. Opened up and closed other pathways.
You could end up with few squad members, or all of them.

..I could go on...but the dismissal of epilogue slides and therefore consequences of actions makes them moot points..

Those epilogue slides DID matter, they were endings in Awakenings that were determined by our choices...you got to read something that was 'Oh yeah, thats right, I upgraded all those walls and got that silverite armour"  = it was only later during DA2 the devs decided they would treat the epilogue slides with disdain.

With that said, I love awakenings and think awakenings is the best expansion / add-on for a game I've seen since Righteous Fire.

[Persephone]

Icinix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Awakening was awesome. Choices mattered and consequences could be severe.

...

...then there was DA2...

Choices in Awakening mattered how?

Off the top of my head..
You could go an entirely different end misison - City or keep.
There were numerous ways to deal with the whispers of dissent. Opened up and closed other pathways.
You could end up with few squad members, or all of them.

..I could go on...but the dismissal of epilogue slides and therefore consequences of actions makes them moot points..

Those epilogue slides DID matter, they were endings in Awakenings that were determined by our choices...you got to read something that was 'Oh yeah, thats right, I upgraded all those walls and got that silverite armour"  = it was only later during DA2 the devs decided they would treat the epilogue slides with disdain.

With that said, I love awakenings and think awakenings is the best expansion / add-on for a game I've seen since Righteous Fire.

Only that defending either the city or keep was as diverse as blue and a darker shade of blue.

You can end up with few squaddies or more of them in DA2 as well.

I despise the Epilogue slides because a) they are bugged as heck and a cheap excuse for "consequences"

And I still thing BG TOB is the best expansion for an RPG ever done. But that's just me.

[Icinix]

Persephone wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Awakening was awesome. Choices mattered and consequences could be severe.

...

...then there was DA2...

Choices in Awakening mattered how?

Off the top of my head..
You could go an entirely different end misison - City or keep.
There were numerous ways to deal with the whispers of dissent. Opened up and closed other pathways.
You could end up with few squad members, or all of them.

..I could go on...but the dismissal of epilogue slides and therefore consequences of actions makes them moot points..

Those epilogue slides DID matter, they were endings in Awakenings that were determined by our choices...you got to read something that was 'Oh yeah, thats right, I upgraded all those walls and got that silverite armour"  = it was only later during DA2 the devs decided they would treat the epilogue slides with disdain.

With that said, I love awakenings and think awakenings is the best expansion / add-on for a game I've seen since Righteous Fire.

Only that defending either the city or keep was as diverse as blue and a darker shade of blue.

You can end up with few squaddies or more of them in DA2 as well.

I despise the Epilogue slides because a) they are bugged as heck and a cheap excuse for "consequences"

And I still thing BG TOB is the best expansion for an RPG ever done. But that's just me.

Yeah..I think I was fortunate because I only hit the bugged awful side of Awakenings on one half cared about run through.  All other ones were fine and the outcomes were exactly what I expected and aimed for...and cheap though they may be..I left the computer content that the game had finished.  I left DA2 with the feelings I needed to know more and didn't have the belly full of contentment.

Yeah I the squad mates one you're right of course, and I really like the friendship / rivalry part of the game. I think thats a fantastic way of handling relationships - but it's been overshadowed by so much else...but in Awakenings they felt more like my little army that I put together rather than a group of people I seemed to force to work together. Some of which passionatley hate each other (Fenris, Merril, Anders)...That said. I think Aveline is one of the greatest fleshed out characters in a long time. She was definitely my best bud in DA2.

..and yeah. Fair call on Baldurs Gate.  I am a privateer nut job though...so I bring it up every chance I get! Still hoping for a remake or ME: Privateer one of these days....

[1Nosphorus1]

Persephone wrote...
Oh I could name her just as easily as my Cousland, my Amell, my Tabris etc. So what's the problem? 

No, in real life I also couldn't "decide" that my little sister died from cancer or that my mother died when I was not yet twenty. Your point being?

My romances all blossomed in Act II.

Not all my Hawkes quoted the Maker in her battle cries or were goody goody Chantry believers.

Aw, you don't like snarky Hawke. Yes, that makes the game "repulsive". And she most certainly influenced the plot greatly.

As for not knowing a hero's looks....it's a common part of hero worship. We have no agreed upon likenesses of King Arthur, Robin Hood etc. etc.

I suppose you have a point with your name, yet the background was always preset with zero options compared to Origins.

And personal issues aside I was making a comparison between the games, you have zero influence on how they play out, in a game that promotes itself on choice, you have almost no influence on how they come about, and always infact end up at the same ending regardless.

Merril's took about 7 years for it to blossom, that's rather ridiculous.

You missed the point entirely with Humour Hawke, the fact that a good natured Hawke, who talks in specific manner, reverts to the same option if you were sarcastic (hence why I called it repulsive) makes it a bad game, there was no other option to flirt other than being a douchebag.

And for not knowing a Hero's look there is no answer that can justify it, Hawke spent nearly a decade in Kirkwall, became the champion and became recognised by pretty much every citizen, his friends should at least know what he looked like.

Using King Arthur and Robin hood for example, is ridiculous, they've been dead for over 600 years, no-ones going to be able to recall what they had looked like, but I'm pretty sure Robin's merry men at the time would sure as hell know what he looked like.

Even using "Christ" as an example, his disciples at the time would know it, and so would all of the people who had witnessed him, i'm pretty sure a few months after his demise they'd be like "Hey, I'm pretty sure he weren't white..."

[DJ0000]

Are there some low points in Dragon Age 2, undoubtedly yes. But it was nowhere near as bad as Awakening.

Awakening was one long faceroll with even less companion interaction than DA2.

For me Awakening has been the low point of the series so far.

[The_FenixV]

RohanD wrote...

Yep Awakening was far better than DA2. Never had any bugs with it.

Architect was win
Sigrun was win
Nathaniel was cool
Anders was hilarious
Justice was cool (but got him too late to really care)
Oghren was meh

Story overall was really great imo. Heaps of stuff they could have done with it in a true sequel, not the steaming pile we got that was DA2.

To me it was different.. Sigrun was meh 
Nathaniel was cool especially if you played the Human noble origins, if you played the other origins he was just okay. 
Justice: Meh 
Oghren : Awesomeness. 
Valenna or Velenna whatever her name was, was cool. 
Anders: Okay. Anders is only good when Oghren is in the same party. 

[Persephone]

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Oh I could name her just as easily as my Cousland, my Amell, my Tabris etc. So what's the problem? 

No, in real life I also couldn't "decide" that my little sister died from cancer or that my mother died when I was not yet twenty. Your point being?

My romances all blossomed in Act II.

Not all my Hawkes quoted the Maker in her battle cries or were goody goody Chantry believers.

Aw, you don't like snarky Hawke. Yes, that makes the game "repulsive". And she most certainly influenced the plot greatly.

As for not knowing a hero's looks....it's a common part of hero worship. We have no agreed upon likenesses of King Arthur, Robin Hood etc. etc.

I suppose you have a point with your name, yet the background was always preset with zero options compared to Origins.

And personal issues aside I was making a comparison between the games, you have zero influence on how they play out, in a game that promotes itself on choice, you have almost no influence on how they come about, and always infact end up at the same ending regardless.

Merril's took about 7 years for it to blossom, that's rather ridiculous.

You missed the point entirely with Humour Hawke, the fact that a good natured Hawke, who talks in specific manner, reverts to the same option if you were sarcastic (hence why I called it repulsive) makes it a bad game, there was no other option to flirt other than being a douchebag.

And for not knowing a Hero's look there is no answer that can justify it, Hawke spent nearly a decade in Kirkwall, became the champion and became recognised by pretty much every citizen, his friends should at least know what he looked like.

Using King Arthur and Robin hood for example, is ridiculous, they've been dead for over 600 years, no-ones going to be able to recall what they had looked like, but I'm pretty sure Robin's merry men at the time would sure as hell know what he looked like.

Even using "Christ" as an example, his disciples at the time would know it, and so would all of the people who had witnessed him, i'm pretty sure a few months after his demise they'd be like "Hey, I'm pretty sure he weren't white..."

The origins in DAO took an hour and then everything was pretty much the same anyway. Which is why all my recent DAO runs ended once Ostagar began.

I noticed plenty of choice, shaping my character, her relationships, her companions etc. And my Hawke ended up differently in several ways. (Non spoiler forum though)

My good natured Hawke's flirting was utterly sweet and not snarky at all.

Heroes of tales often change their appearance depending on the storyteller. And glad I am because none of my 4 Hawkes look alike at all.

[Reinveil]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Reinveil wrote...
One way that Awakening absolutely kills the sequel, however, is in it's environments. Kal'Hirol alone destroys anything in DAII. Such fantastic artistic design during that sequence.

Absolutely. Even without considering it as just an expansion, the sheer range of environments in Awakening was brilliant. DA2 was pretty drab by comparison.

Now I know you people are having me on. Awakening was completely uninspired. Or rather directly inspired from Origins. DA2's were very original and distinctive, even if some maps were overused. Which really isn't a crime Awakening is innocent of.

Since we're telling others what their opinion should be...

You think we're "having you on", and I suspect you either don't have eyes or are deluding yourself.  The only map in all of DAII I thought was even marginally interesting was the Deep Roads at the end of act 1.  The rest was utterly generic (and please don't start in with Kirkwall being some marvel of visual design, it's the same "big city" seen in every RPG ever...what you're allowed to see of it, anyway).  And in what ways are Awakening's maps "overused"?  I seem to recall visiting each hub once, doing the side jobs, finishing the main quest and moving on to the next unique area.

Modifié par Reinveil, 31 mars 2011 - 10:10 .

[Reinveil]

Persephone wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

In Awakening It's up to you if Vigil's Keep and Amaranthine are destroyed and you also decide the fate of Architect.
In Dragon Age 2 you decide nothing.

Technically, speaking of game engine, DA2 is better though.

Never mind that saving either of the two leads to the same conclusion and killing or sparing the Architect makes little to no difference either.

The latter would have made a difference if Bioware had actually incorporated more than cameos and passing references to the events in Origins into DAII.  And isn't that particular flag bugged, anyway?  People that did spare him don't hear about him at all, while those that didn't get an indication that they in fact did.  That has nothing to do with Awakening's mechanics and everything to do with II's shoddy writing and QA.

[Awildawn]

I loved the plot of Awakening and I think I wrote somewhere that, at the time, I was expecting additional DLCs to flesh out the story such as relationship dlcs, sidequests that would add more depth... then, they decided to create DA2.
DA2's story, to me, seems finished and somewhat complete (every question seems to have been answered) but I'm expecting (more like wanting) new zones as DLCs. It's clear that if even one of DA2 DLCs include a reused area, the message boards are going to be in uproar... again.

So yeah, I enjoyed both, but I'm quite sure everyone agrees that these two last games could have used some more time.

[DarthSliver]

I have to disagree with the OP, I felt the same feeling i did for Awakening when i completed it as i did for Dragon Age 2. DA2 was good, but it felt like an expansion that bridged to the actual sequel of Dragon Age Origins. Both left me wanting more and with DA2 leaving me with more of that feeling than Awakening. Both ended just as you began to get sucked into the story of what was going on. Awakening wouldve benefited from being a full game rather than an expansion. I wanted to see more Talking Darkspawn, I felt that aspect was done really well.

But despite my like for DA2, its still a rushed gamed and couldve benefited from not being released yet. All the concepts in game was awesome but was poorly executed. It had 3 different Main Plots going on in one game, i mean thats not bad but it wasnt executed good i think. They didnt seem to mesh well together and more or so conflicted with each other.

Awakening and Dragon Age 2 about on the same playing field for me. Eh.