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[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Meredith was horrible even before the sword; the sword just made her turn on her own templars and see blood magic literally everywhere. She seems to be obsessed with protecting mages from themselves and protecting others from mages, in a rather twisted sense trying to make up for failing her sister, but badly overcompensating. Her stake in this is far too personal.

This.  At best, Meredith was an even worse version of Cullen.  And yet another reason Elthina deserved a fate far worse than the mercifully quick and painless death she got.

[TEWR]

were it me, I would've made Elthina believe that her own power wouldn't have been enough to stop Meredith, and that she believed she needed to be removed from the picture entirely for Meredith's evil to be stopped. So she would've been sending correspondence to Anders.

Would've made her character much better.

[oldakhippie]

kk,nvrmind I finally beat her, but I felt the ending was somewhat anti-climatic in comparasion to Origins and awakening. I would have liked to see hawke and Isabella(or whomever ur love interst is) sailing off into the sunset or something. I personally think they did it on purpose as a setup for DA-3.Now I gotta go back an side with the templars to see how that plays out.

[rpgfan321]

When I heard her backstory, I could understand her motivations and psychology. But compared to Loghain, Meredith was pretty anti-climatic and forgettable.

You can read a huge backstory on Loghain from the tie-in novels and the codex. As the player, you are not playing him and reliving his life, but from what you can read and hear from NPCs, the boss battle with Loghain feels spectacular.

With Meredith not so much... So her end didn't feel victorious.

[Plaintiff]

I don't think anything excuses Meredith, honestly. She's utterly hopeless. She's a self-righteous, paranoid nutbag. She's too busy looking for monsters under her bed to look for the real ones terrorizing the city, or to root out the ones under her command, who don't even have the exuse of possession for their deplorable actions.

Claiming that the idol made her crazy is giving it too much credit. The idol didn't do anything except give Meredith power and tell her exactly what she wanted to hear. She's too proud and self-righteous to believe that she would ever be susceptible to the corrupting influence of magic or demons, so when she starts hearing a voice, she decides it must be the Maker, singling her out the way he singled out Andraste.

If she wasn't such an arrogant hypocrite, she wouldn't have been affected so badly in the first place.

[Vormaerin]

She's not like Cullen, at least not if you mean the Cullen ranting at the Knight Commander at the end of the Tower rescue.

We know that she vetoed the Tranquil Solution. She (and Cullen) accepted every plea for mercy made by Hawke, both for renegade templars and for mages. Not to mention, she's right. There are blood mages all over the place in Kirkwall, with the full knowledge of the First Enchanter. There's no evidence she was involved in or condoned the abuses that occur. Of course, she's the commanding officer so she bears responsibility for not being in control of her underlings, at the very least.

Its also obvious that the pressure from Val Royeaux is to be harsher, not more lenient. She gets no effective support from Elthina, whose sole concern seems to be keeping other clerics from meddling in her diocese (with cause, perhaps. But still...)

Meredith's not up to the task of controlling the cesspit that is Kirkwall, with its ultra thin Veil and history of massive blood magic extending back before the city even existed. Though anyone who could do that would be far more heroic than either of the Dragon Age protagonists ever were. She cracks and, thanks to the Idol, cracks really, really badly.

Meredith doesn't get the screen time that Loghain did, so she's not as impressively developed. But she's far less villainous than he was.

Meredith is the more obviously broken person, but Orsino is the far worse villain if you ask me.

[Gervaise]

There are two people with extreme views that are willing to see innocent people die to further their cause: Meredith and Anders.  They are polar opposites but both feel they are justified in what they do from past experiences and the current situation in Kirkwall. 

At the beginning of Act 3 you are given the option of either supporting Meredith or Orsino, or the mddle ground, which by default means you are seen as supporting Orsino.  Although to some extent, right up until he transforms into the Harvester, he does seem to represent the more reasonable mage representative of reform to the system, rather than outright rebellion, much as Thrask seems to stand for the moderate Templars (and both turn out to have been morally compromised in sheltering/covering up murderous blood mages)
.
At the end you are forced to take sides, even though you can see that neither is going to solve things and in fact only make matters worse.  What is also annoying is that someone like Varric can say that he doesn't feel entirely happy about helping dangerous people run amok, if you support the mages, which shows that people are just going to see you as backing total mage freedom, when really you just do not agree with innocent people dying for something they didn't do.  Put it round the other way.  If this was a mage controlled city and they wanted to kill regular Templars whom they control, for a bomb placed by a rogue Templar, (think Tevinter) then I would have defended the Templars. 
 
I think it is good that the writers took the trouble to round out the Meredith character, so you can have a bit more sympathy with her situation (if countless encounters with murderous blood mages and demons hasn't already done this), but as with Loghain, the disappointing part is that you only get to find out this information if you support her.  So it is there more to make you feel better about supporting her than putting perspective onto the situation as a whole.   And with Loghain it gives a whole new perspective to the dark ritual decision, beyond just mere survival or not.   With Meredith it does not really change your perspective on the final decision does it? 

I would have liked to have got the Meredith story regardless of whether I backed her or not, possibly not from her personally but someone who knew her closely, perhaps Elthinia, because it does act as a counter to Anders justification for doing what he does and her assertion "it breaks my heart to do it," would seem less like empty rhetoric.
 

[Vormaerin]

Well, I disagree somewhat with the assertion that "Meredith" is willing to see innocent people die to further her cause. That only happens when she's mixed up with the lyrium idol for a long time. We don't have enough information to determine how much effect that had, though its effect on Varric is an indication it doesn't make people better..

But I do agree with the larger point that it is annoying that crucial information for the story is hidden behind "choices" you have to make largely blind. I'd rather have a more coherent, compelling story and cast of characters than that kind of "choice".

[Rifneno]

Ahh the lyrium idol, Meredith's get-of-jail-free card. You noticed that only a few people even notice she's acting different, right? Bartrand's servant knew he was in a horror movie. The templars thought it was business was usual. Why? Because Meredith has been bordering on raving insanity since she put on her swastika-covered armor.

Oh, and LOL at the "no evidence she knew of wrongdoing by her underlings." We also never actually see Isabela have sex, so clearly she's a virgin.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uhm.. At least Isabela her self insinuate that she is rather experienced in the field. Meredith herself never shows any knowledge of the abuses taking place.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm.. At least Isabela her self insinuate that she is rather experienced in the field. Meredith herself never shows any knowledge of the abuses taking place.

Um, if Meredith does not know about the abuses taking place under her command, add blind, deaf, dumb, and willfully ignorant to the list, as well as incompetant. If Hawke random Jow Q public can walk into the Gallows and see and hear all sorts of creepy, disturbing things going on or hinted at, as well as half of Kirkwall talking about and knowing about the abuses, then Meredith knows. She simply chooses to allow it to continue.

Since the Templars are a Military organizaqtion, military Standards apply. The commanding officer is always responsible for the behaviors, failures, and successes of their troops. They are expected, at the minimal, to be aware of  what is going on amongst their ranks, and ensuring order, discipline, and standard operations are adhered to.

Thus, regardless of how I look at it, Meredith is epic fail. She is either fully aware of what is going on, and chooses to ignore it or tolerate it, or she is simply the most incompetant waste of space ever to assume the rank and responsibility. What I saw in the game, either possibility is likely.

And it goes further than Meredith. Elthina is her direct superior, and thus, had the authority and resoponsibility to make sure Meredith was doing her job properly. Elthina failed here. The entire chain of command, in fact, is pretty epic fail.

[Gervaise]

Actually Cullen tells you in Act 2 that Meredith is being far more reclusive than she used to be and less inclined to trust outsiders and even flags up this seems to have coincided with Hawkes return. So much of what goes on generally could be being kept from her notice, particularly if people are afraid she may "shoot the messenger". The reason things get so out of hand may actually be because she is staying in her office more and trusting her subordinates to let her know, whilst glaring across the corridor at Orsino. So second in command Cullen is culpable on two counts - he seems to be covering up what is going on among the Templars or sifting the information she receives to suit his own agenda (so both Meredith and Elthinia may not be fully acquainted with all the facts) and he fails to take action when he and others suspect that Meredith is "losing the plot".
Given that Bartrand starts cutting people up and doing other grusome things as a result of his contact with the idol, Meredith's insanity is really quite mild in comparison but may be that is because she had greater strength of mind to begin with or the lyrium she consumes gives her some immunity to the effects of the idol. Whilst alot of Bartrand's madness occurs after he got rid of the main idol, a piece of it was still within the mansion. The odd thing is that no one noticed the strange new sword she is carrying back in Act 2, not even to enquire out of curiosity.
And you would think that a pro-Templar/anti-mage Hawke after witnessing what happened to Bartrand, would actually report to the Templars the fact that an incredibly dangerous magical artifact may currently be present in or around the city or elsewhere in the Freemarches and they should watch out for any signs of abnormal behaviour. But then logical thinking does not seem to feature highly with Hawke.

[lokiarchetype]

Might seem like an odd comparison but Meredith sort of reminds me of Colonel Jessup from a Few Good Men.

Both are staunch authoritarian leaders who are downright fanatical and uncompromising about their duty.
Both view their role as a provider of order and security and that the manner in which it is provided should not be questioned by those who benefit from it.
And lastly, both ultimately fail in their role as protector as in their zealous pursuit of fulfilling this duty they harm the innocent, and the innocent are who they should be defending.

I can't be the only one that could see her saying this to Hawke, though

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with swords. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Varric? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for the mages, and you curse the templars. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That the mages' deaths, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.  You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that Circle, you need me in that Circle. We use words like honor, code, loyalty.  We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something."

Modifié par lokiarchetype, 13 août 2011 - 10:19 .