156 réponses à ce sujet

[wikkedjoker]

We have one Flemeth, she's been plotting forever.

[Noatz]

Fieryeel wrote...

GSSAGE7 wrote...

Again, it's not like there haven't been downright, no justification evil characters in these games. I challenge you to try and justify Howe's actions.

True, Howe passes well.

I had Cousland origins, and when he slaughtered my family, it pissed me off big time. Add to the fact that for majority of the game he was completely untouchable, while I imagine how he sits on a throne of my family's stolen treasure after torturing mom and dad.

It made me really satisfied when I could finally sink my blade into him.

I want such villians in DA3. The one who's so evil and yet powerful you simply cannot touch him, only look at him in rage, then it all comes to a sweet conclusion where you finally have his neck in your hands.

So you want to have a villain you genuinely hate, that's fair enough.

It doesn't have to be a one dimensional immoral monster though. The problem with Howe is while hes a colossal douche there's not much motivation behind it besides pure greed. He's little more than a hunger demon in human form. Same goes for characters like Uldred, or Branka, or Bartrand. But they're bit villains so like others have said already its sort of alright to have them being arbitrarily evil and/or mad and not address their motivations at all.

Trying to make villains that both make sense as characters and are hatable is a difficult task. I suppose the closest Bioware have come is the Reapers so far, although they are playing the "incomprehensible motives" card still at the moment. If it is as it seems as of the end of ME2 in that the Reapers require large amounts of various living bodies to reproduce themselves then they'll have succeeded in this somewhat given you can understand why they're doing what they're doing, but they aren't much different from the darkspawn then.

[Noatz]

wikkedjoker wrote...

We have one Flemeth, she's been plotting forever.

While there's a good chance shes up to no good, we don't know this for sure.

[Wolfva2]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

We already had Tim Curry doing a completely irredeemable evil character in this series. He was magnificent.

True, true, but in my worldview you can never have enough irredemable complete monsters played and/or voiced by Tim Curry. 

Perhaps he should play a child abducting demon in the form of a clown. Come on, that's one of his best roles! And he was a total evil 'muhahaha' villain.

Heck, he's already played the Lord of Darkness in an 80's fantasy film, directed by Ridley Scott no less. That's just begging for him to voice the Archon of the Tevinter Imperium or whatever, he seems like the most promising candidate to engage in some scenery chewing evil. 

Heh, the first time any villain voiced by Tim Curry looked at my character and shouted, "BOYYYYYY" I think I'd have a nerdgasm.  But now I'm gonna be having dreams of Merril in the Harlequin scene......mmmmmmmm.....

[MadMoskus]

I agree. Good fantasy stories almost always have an extremely evil villain. And defeating that one is what really creates the 'hero' feeling.

Origins did this. DA2 did not. Origins was a fantastic game, DA2 was not.

[_- Songlian -]

Fieryeel wrote...

We need a villain without redemming qualities or reasoning. We need a villain who's evil because he/she can be. We need a villain who eats children and baths in the blood of virgins or something similar, who's got some evil plan to conquer the entire world.

Wow, no thank you. Not for me, at least. 

Feasible evil = Complex motivations. In order for evil to really work, I need to feel conflicted about it. Pure evil is a concept I've last heard when I was seven and my mother bought fairy tales from the local library for me to read. In adult, grown-up world, nobody wakes up and just thinks, "Hey, I know! I'm going to be evil today. Just for fun." Everyone thinks they're the good guy. 

If that sort of evil works for you, congrats. It doesn't for me. 

Modifié par - Songlian -, 30 mars 2011 - 11:23 .

[Lithuasil]

Now we need a team of professionals in suits, that kidnap everyone agreeing with the OP, to make sure none of this people ever come in contact with the bioware writing staff :|

[_Aine_]

I think almost the opposite of the OP.

I would love a villian whose story makes me act out against it, rally my right against their wrong. Be a difficult and clever adversary. Have the story piece by piece work against them by my efforts...only to find out in the end they were right all along and it was actually *me* who was the villian and did the world injustice by rallying against him/her =(

Oh the guilt trip would be exquisite. lol I would whine and complain, but it would at least make me care. Villians that are obvious villians are easy to kill (in a game) without caring (too much). But if you end up being wrong, or now that I think about it, alternately LIKING them, well, that is a difficult villian.

Actually the choice to kill Anders would have been so much more difficult had he had more of the *old* Anders in him - or made him more loveable and have had Vengeance only come out in flashes rather than this angsty, focused pro-mage rally that he seemed to always have.

So, either it ends up being me who was wrong, or the villian makes you sympathise/like them... those are the villians I find the most fun to work opposed to because they aren't *easy*.

We all have different likes and dislikes though. I guess I just like a mental mind-%$#@ every now and then.

Modifié par shantisands, 30 mars 2011 - 01:53 .

[Purple People Eater]

DA3 needs Sephiroth.

[Lithuasil]

Didn't da2 have him already?

[Darth Obvious]

Kreia > Sun Li > Saren > Malak > Archdemon > ME2-terminator-thingy > Meredith

[rabbitchannel]

Dislike. I'd rather have one whose motives are vague at the start. As time goes by we see that there is reason for the evil, how that person has been wronged by the world and how he has been twisted into something unrecognizable. I want to feel empathy and sympathy yet fear and respect. I want to regret striking the final blow.

[yoshibb]

Harcken wrote...

Na, we just need a villian who sticks around for the whole game, from start to finish; not a collection of half-assed mini-villians.

This is what I want too. I want the villain to be a villain to me. I want to be so pissed off by the end at him that I want crush his heart with my bare hand. You can still have a villain like that who is 3 dimensional. I don't like constantly agreeing with the antagonists. I like beating the crap out of them. 

I kind of felt like that with Sun Li, but it can go a little further. If the bad guy tried to assassinate one of your closest companions (and almost succeeded), if he killed a family member just to mess with the main character (or do something like ship Bethany off to Tevinter slavers), then I wouldn't be all "Well, I guess you can go free I mean I can kind of see your point." A villain that's always one step ahead and always toying with the hero.  

[Lithuasil]

Actually, with enough development time, there'd be real potential here, for DA2 - giving the pc both a mage and a mundane origin, and making the very people that aid you, your companions even, the antagonists, depending on what side you're on.

[_Aine_]

Lithuasil wrote...

Actually, with enough development time, there'd be real potential here, for DA2 - giving the pc both a mage and a mundane origin, and making the very people that aid you, your companions even, the antagonists, depending on what side you're on.

Yep, the work would have been mostly at the beginning as it would be a whole new start/origin, although you *could* have that one start inside Kirkwall, in the circle to fill you up with templar-angst and see the corruption and have the current start fleeing Lothering as anything BUT mage (so you and Bethany would be in the circle with an escape perhaps and then as an apostate in Kirkwall, or alternately just as an apostate, as there were friendship/rivalry dialogue already recorded in terms of quest responses throughout the game.   Obviously would need more implemented though.  Still, works for me =D  

Wonder if it would be possible to piece it together to be workable, if we get a toolset. Hmmm.  

Modifié par shantisands, 30 mars 2011 - 03:48 .

[Lithuasil]

I actually just mistyped - I meant *potential for DA3* - what DA2 needs, is a dedicated modding team to fix the mess that is the third act
As for DA2 - have the mage start in a circle, and the mundane start in some village that gets eaten by bloodmages due to upcoming war...

[Arppis]

I want a villain you keep chasing for the duration of the game. Where you constantly breath down his neck for one reason or another. Where player wants to get revenge or something. That would be interesting.

[The Angry One]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Kreia > Sun Li > Saren > Malak > Archdemon > ME2-terminator-thingy > Meredith

Why do people like Kreia so much?
She's a massive hypocrite who goes on and on about not being overtly evil or overtly good, then goes killcrazy evil when she feels like it and still berates you for being evil if you go that way.
Oh and she has no plan because her ambition (to eliminate the Force) is impossible and she admits it's impossible.

Plus she's by Obsidian, not BioWare.

[Lithuasil]

I'm much more pissed at Kreia for traveling with me for ages, and not teaching me the "three flying lightsabers" trick :|

[The Angry One]

Well at least she's the only character in the game to get Revan's assigned gender right consistently!

[Clangeddin86]

I think that the Arishok would have made a much better final boss than Meredith... but that's just me I guess.

[Lithuasil]

I wouldn't know, finding out would have likely required me to speak to her more then absolutely necessary

[Lord Gremlin]

OP... You've just describe the type of hero I'd like to be.

BTW bathing in virgin's blood keeps your skin healthy and hair silky.

As for DA3, let me kill the Divine and consider me among those who'll pre-order.

[Lithuasil]

@Lord Gremlin
Have you played Dark Messiah? I'm pretty sure you'd like that game

[The Angry One]

Or Soul Nomad & the World Eaters demon run, where the hero turns into an evil masochistic puppy kicking baby eating genocidal maniac who probably has bathed in blood, virgin or otherwise.