156 réponses à ce sujet

[Lithuasil]

Edit in -Enclave - a great game that for some sad reason, no one played :|

[Lord Gremlin]

Lithuasil wrote...

@Lord Gremlin
Have you played Dark Messiah? I'm pretty sure you'd like that game

Of course I did. And the ending was: "FU, Dad, I will own this world myself and keep the demon hooker for pleasures."
But I disliked how main hero sounds, like a village boy.
It's just that the world of Dragon Age is perfect place for such an anti-hero.

[Lithuasil]

That actually made part of the appeal for me - he is still the same person, overrun by the events, even after he's literally no longer mortal.
Might still want to try out Enclave - the first (and only) game, that let's you do the same campaign twice, from each side respectively.

[Lord Gremlin]

Lithuasil wrote...

Edit in -Enclave - a great game that for some sad reason, no one played :|

In my country it was published by Akella, a piece of **** company I always hated. Might buy it from GOG someday...
And as far as I understand the game offers two campaigns - for demons and for mortals. That's what bugged me in DA2 - it's same end and same result, no matter what you do.

Naturally, i've expected that if you side with mages Meredith kills Orsino and you fight her, then wipe out all templars. And if you side with Templars Orsino turns into Harvester and kills Meredith, after that you fight him and kill every mage in Kirkwall. You know, something at least on par with Paragon of Her Kind quest in DAO. However, DA2 ending is always same, and some things are plain silly or outright idiotic.
I get now why some people wrote that DA2 is cloned DAO Orzammar main quest, just worse and with only 1 outcome.

[Lithuasil]

Not demons as such, just Humans / Orcs / things that happen to be on the mustach twirly side of the conflict, and it's the same conflict / campaign. YOu even meet yourself a few times.

And let's hope that (two origins, two parties being either your allies or the enemy respectively) is exactly what DA3 will do.

[Lord Gremlin]

Lithuasil wrote...
And let's hope that (two origins, two parties being either your allies or the enemy respectively) is exactly what DA3 will do.

This. Exactly this. But will this happen?

I demand an answer from Gaider. Well,  I know I can't really demand anything, but will whine anyway.

[Lithuasil]

I'll whine with you, for that goal
Though technically, this could even be done without making two different games, if you're clever about it. But hey, I can already hear people whining "but what if I want to side with the templars as mage, maybe I like being made tranquil and killed", so there's that >.<

[Lord Gremlin]

Lithuasil wrote...

I'll whine with you, for that goal
Though technically, this could even be done without making two different games, if you're clever about it. But hey, I can already hear people whining "but what if I want to side with the templars as mage, maybe I like being made tranquil and killed", so there's that >.<

Look...
People whined about not being able to romance a mabari, to create nug bombs, to summon several pets, to make Morrigan a lesbian, to romance Loghain, to make a nug procreate with mabari... You name it.
People always whine. We just need to be less ridiculous in that department. I think it's acceptable that your faction restricts certain possibilities. If you're a Tevinter blood mage how can you expect to be able to side with Qunari or Templars?

[Dasher1010]

So the OP would prefer a villain like Voltan to a villain like Magneto? Seriously, villains who are understandable add drama. Totally irredeemable child-sacrificing scumbags are better as anti-heroes. I like it when the hero is worse than the villain.

[Lithuasil]

Lord Gremlin wrote...
I think it's acceptable that your faction restricts certain possibilities. If you're a Tevinter blood mage how can you expect to be able to side with Qunari or Templars?

More importantly - the first two hours of origin in a dual campaign setting, should be spent being oppressed by a magister or abused by templars, so by the time you get out, you as a player, are a fanatic to whatever cause you're supposed to follow from then on.

[Lord Gremlin]

Dasher1010 wrote...

So the OP would prefer a villain like Voltan to a villain like Magneto? Seriously, villains who are understandable add drama. Totally irredeemable child-sacrificing scumbags are better as anti-heroes. I like it when the hero is worse than the villain.

Exactly. And for the record you could do exactly this in Jade Empire. You could become just as bad as the main villain AND have a demon servant. It also adds a sense of achievement - you've became worse than the main villain! I love that.
DMoMM lets you do this too. And even in Gothic 3 if you decide to become a servant of Belial you become worse than any other character (except for Belial himself).

[txgoldrush]

Purple People Eater wrote...

DA3 needs Sephiroth.

Kefka >>>>> Sephiroth

[KAAurious]

So essentially. After destroying all the old gods at once. Hawke and the Warden will look at eachother.

When all of a sudden Exdeath will spring out of nowhere and be all Exdeathy.

Modifié par KAAurious, 31 mars 2011 - 03:50 .

[Rifneno]

txgoldrush wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

DA3 needs Sephiroth.

Kefka >>>>> Sephiroth

Kefka is the most overrated villain ever.  His entire backstory consists of one unnamed wandering townsperson saying he heard they did magical experiments on him that made him nuts.  That's it.  Why does he want to destroy everything?  Because he's nuts.  How did he siphon all the magic from the ancient gods?  Because he's nuts.. err..   Most importantly, why is he dressed like Krusty the Clown on acid?  Because he's nuts.  Sorry Square, even for the SNES days, that didn't cut it for me.

[XiNAVRO]

Someone else already mentioned him (and as a negatory), but Joker from the Dark Knight was an amazing villain in my books. As the official description goes "psychopathic, mass-murdering, schizophrenic clown with zero empathy" - he was unpredictable, yet even more charismatic and chilling than any other.

Perhaps Joker may not fit the bill for a medieval-themed fantasy game such as Dragon Age, but being a villain without a reason isn't exactly one sided nor boring; as long as the character is done right.

Modifié par XiNAVRO, 31 mars 2011 - 04:13 .

[Foolsfolly]

XiNAVRO wrote...

Someone else already mentioned him (and as a negatory), but Joker from the Dark Knight was an amazing villain in my books. As the official description goes "psychopathic, mass-murdering, schizophrenic clown with zero empathy" - he was unpredictable, yet even more charismatic and chilling than any other.

Perhaps Joker may not fit the bill for a medieval-themed fantasy game such as Dragon Age, but being a villain without a reason isn't exactly one sided nor boring; as long as the character is done right.

You can never have too much Joker.

NEVER.

The Dark Knight's Joker was a great example of a pure evil character who just wishes to bring anchary. He's the reason for the plot, he tests the heroes (and they break), and he was so magnificant that Ledger won the effing Oscar for the role.

A BioWare Joker like character who's actions strain and test the city while the protagonists are tested to find their moral core and breaking point? Sign me up for that.

Hawke never got tested largely because there's no decent villain to test him.

[Killer3000ad]

We need an Irenicus type.

[Darth Obvious]

The Angry One wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

Kreia > Sun Li > Saren > Malak > Archdemon > ME2-terminator-thingy > Meredith

Why do people like Kreia so much?

She is more interesting than Vader, Palpatine, Malak, and Dooku combined. Totally unique character concept, unmatched attitude, fantastic voice-acting... probably the deepest Star Wars character ever created on-screen. She turns the whole light/dark side dichotomy on its head, and really makes the player think about what those concepts actually mean in practical terms. In short, she humanizes Star Wars in ways never before considered by any previous Star Wars writers.

And unlike virtually all of the villains in these other games (whom we never really know all that much about), Kreia is along for the bulk of the game, and so we learn a great deal about her views/personality/backstory. Even though she is the "big bad" at the end, the player completely understands her point of view, and may even partially agree with it. In other words, Kreia is the most "real" character in the entire history of the Star Wars universe, and the depth of KotOR 2 makes the prequel trilogies look like pathetic children's stories in comparison.

To this day, KotOR 2 is still my favorite of all of these games, followed closely by ME, KotOR, and JE.

DAO is a very distant fifth, then ME2, and last and certainly least DA2.

[Lithuasil]

While I agree that having the antagonist around for a larger part of the game is preferable - it would have helped Kreias case a lot if she wasn't preachy and abnoxious, to the point where I, when first playing Kotor2, I never actually brought her when I didn't have to. Between the preaches, and all the mystery and foreshadowing they did with her, they simply went overboard. Also:

In short, she humanizes Star Wars in ways never before considered by any previous Star Wars writers

Darth Bane, Darth Zannah, Exar kun, and the entire cast of the Legacy arc would like to have a few words with you.

[Darth Obvious]

Lithuasil wrote...

While I agree that having the antagonist around for a larger part of the game is preferable - it would have helped Kreias case a lot if she wasn't preachy and abnoxious, to the point where I, when first playing Kotor2, I never actually brought her when I didn't have to.

She is your teacher in the game, so being preachy and obnoxious is pretty much her job. I honestly can't imagine her being any other way.

And what Jedi teacher isn't preachy? I can't think of any. Her commentary pissed people off if they identified with either extreme - the Jedi or the Sith, mainly because she was mostly right about things. Both the Jedi and the Sith can obviously be annoying, and even the Jedi can easily do more harm than good. The bottom line is that the Force is often a hell of a lot more trouble than it is worth.

Lithuasil wrote...

Darth Bane, Darth Zannah, Exar kun, and the entire cast of the Legacy arc would like to have a few words with you.

Bane and Zannah are pretty cool I guess, and I found the Legacy books to be decent, but certainly not great.

Also, KotOR 2 was released 2004/2005. When was the first Bane book released? 2006? 2007?

[txgoldrush]

Rifneno wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

DA3 needs Sephiroth.

Kefka >>>>> Sephiroth

Kefka is the most overrated villain ever.  His entire backstory consists of one unnamed wandering townsperson saying he heard they did magical experiments on him that made him nuts.  That's it.  Why does he want to destroy everything?  Because he's nuts.  How did he siphon all the magic from the ancient gods?  Because he's nuts.. err..   Most importantly, why is he dressed like Krusty the Clown on acid?  Because he's nuts.  Sorry Square, even for the SNES days, that didn't cut it for me.

Also Cid mentions this as well and how Celes was not affected, unlike Kefka.

No, Kefka does have a motive....he finds enjoyment in destroying peoples lives and seeks to prove his point that life is meaningless, hence The World of Ruin (He murders all the adults in Mobliz so the children would live without their parents and without hope). He even calls killing people "fun" at the end of the game. He is a nihilist who has no value for  life at all.  Its not who he is that makes him great, its what he does, and what he stands for.

And in 1994, he was a huge step up in villainy. its too bad SE tries to copy him almost every FF game...Kuja..lol

[Vicious]

However, I do like the fact that if you spared him, he's then a fugly looking companion who may or may not get to have sexy times with Morrigan.

The fact that he'd rather die than have sexytime with Morrigan is hilarious. And that he calls her "SWAMP WITCH."

OK Loghain had awesome voice acting.

[Vicious]

I liked Sarevok as a villain. I especially liked that he showed up again in BG2 and showed up AGAIN in Throne of Bhaal as a companion, to the point where Minsc made an amusing comment about him constantly coming back.

[KristofCoulson]

Dastardly and Muttley, the true villains.

www.hotink.com/wacky/dastrdly/DMlogo.gif

Modifié par KristofCoulson, 01 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[Bayz]

Fieryeel wrote...

We need a villain without redemming qualities or reasoning. We need a villain who's evil because he/she can be. We need a villain who eats children and baths in the blood of virgins or something similar, who's got some evil plan to conquer the entire world.

Archdemon fitted a little into this category, problem was that he was so detached from us...we only saw him duing Deep Roads, and final quest.

Loghain was nowhere near. He seemed an enormous ****, but in the end, he was really trying to protect Fereldan.

The Mother was close, but one couldn't blame her as she was practically insane, and who could blame her? Having developed sentience again after turning into a Broodmother.

Arishok, Orsino, Meredith all had their reasonings, and one could even sympathize with them.

We really need a villain whos the "Muahhahahha I am evil because I CAN BE!!! I will destroy your world just for the fun of it!" and whom we can see throughout the game, instead of only during two scenes.

There are complex bosses with deep compelling stories like those of BG2, and there are those simple but horrendously powerful bosses which really makes you wanna wring the life out of.

...No