156 réponses à ce sujet

[Foolsfolly]

Darth Obvious wrote...

She is more interesting than Vader, Palpatine, Malak, and Dooku combined. Totally unique character concept, unmatched attitude, fantastic voice-acting... probably the deepest Star Wars character ever created on-screen. She turns the whole light/dark side dichotomy on its head, and really makes the player think about what those concepts actually mean in practical terms. In short, she humanizes Star Wars in ways never before considered by any previous Star Wars writers.

And unlike virtually all of the villains in these other games (whom we never really know all that much about), Kreia is along for the bulk of the game, and so we learn a great deal about her views/personality/backstory. Even though she is the "big bad" at the end, the player completely understands her point of view, and may even partially agree with it. In other words, Kreia is the most "real" character in the entire history of the Star Wars universe, and the depth of KotOR 2 makes the prequel trilogies look like pathetic children's stories in comparison.

To this day, KotOR 2 is still my favorite of all of these games, followed closely by ME, KotOR, and JE.

DAO is a very distant fifth, then ME2, and last and certainly least DA2.

I agree greatly with your description of Kreia and disagree greatly with your order of games.

So, good post, sir.

[Bayz]

We need an Alma-like antagonist. I haven't had nightmares enough yet after she raped the PC

[Greta13]

For DA3 I want two thing:
Evil, Joker like character to fight throughout the game, and evil(er) character as main character!
Evil vs. evil batteling for control of Thedas! Sigh, one can wish anyways...
Oh yah, and I want a pet mabari like Kujo.

[Alex Kershaw]

I prefer complex villains

[Addai]

aryon69 wrote...

Well too me Petrice was that type. While I doubt she ate children or went bathing in blood she did go to some extreme lengths all for her warped sense of faith. Not really what you want but she showed some promise. By the way that second arrow she caught was an impressive shot.

The Qunari convert whole nations at the edge of a blade.  Petrice is responding to a real threat, albeit in underhanded ways.

[Addai]

Fieryeel wrote...

We need a villain without redemming qualities or reasoning. We need a villain who's evil because he/she can be. We need a villain who eats children and baths in the blood of virgins or something similar, who's got some evil plan to conquer the entire world.

Archdemon fitted a little into this category, problem was that he was so detached from us...we only saw him duing Deep Roads, and final quest.

Loghain was nowhere near. He seemed an enormous ****, but in the end, he was really trying to protect Fereldan.

The Mother was close, but one couldn't blame her as she was practically insane, and who could blame her? Having developed sentience again after turning into a Broodmother.

Arishok, Orsino, Meredith all had their reasonings, and one could even sympathize with them.

We really need a villain whos the "Muahhahahha I am evil because I CAN BE!!! I will destroy your world just for the fun of it!" and whom we can see throughout the game, instead of only during two scenes.

There are complex bosses with deep compelling stories like those of BG2, and there are those simple but horrendously powerful bosses which really makes you wanna wring the life out of.

(husband)

I don't think its purely a yay or nay issue.   Bioware simply has to go with what they think is the most interesting story.     And part of that is trying to do something a bit different than they did before to keep things fresh and interesting.    So in that regard you could be right.... we certainly have had plenty of sympathetic anti-villians.   I think something closer to a regular villian would work, but in some way they still need to subvert a trope or two in writing the story.

[doloreg]

Why have a thought provoking antagonist (not villain), when you can have a card carrying villain who does stuff for the evulz.
Sounds like a great idea, let's put scooby-doo there too, the story's not black and white enough.

[Porenferser]

Someone like Azar Javed, the Professor or the Grand Master in The Witcher, those were some very well written antagonists.

Modifié par Porenferser, 29 avril 2011 - 05:17 .

[88mphSlayer]

Fieryeel wrote...

We need a villain without redemming qualities or reasoning. We need a villain who's evil because he/she can be. We need a villain who eats children and baths in the blood of virgins or something similar, who's got some evil plan to conquer the entire world.

Archdemon fitted a little into this category, problem was that he was so detached from us...we only saw him duing Deep Roads, and final quest.

Loghain was nowhere near. He seemed an enormous ****, but in the end, he was really trying to protect Fereldan.

The Mother was close, but one couldn't blame her as she was practically insane, and who could blame her? Having developed sentience again after turning into a Broodmother.

Arishok, Orsino, Meredith all had their reasonings, and one could even sympathize with them.

We really need a villain whos the "Muahhahahha I am evil because I CAN BE!!! I will destroy your world just for the fun of it!" and whom we can see throughout the game, instead of only during two scenes.

There are complex bosses with deep compelling stories like those of BG2, and there are those simple but horrendously powerful bosses which really makes you wanna wring the life out of.

[phaonica]

Fieryeel wrote...

We need a villain without redemming qualities or reasoning. We need a villain who's evil because he/she can be. We need a villain who eats children and baths in the blood of virgins or something similar, who's got some evil plan to conquer the entire world.

Archdemon fitted a little into this category, problem was that he was so detached from us...we only saw him duing Deep Roads, and final quest.

Loghain was nowhere near. He seemed an enormous ****, but in the end, he was really trying to protect Fereldan.

The Mother was close, but one couldn't blame her as she was practically insane, and who could blame her? Having developed sentience again after turning into a Broodmother.

Arishok, Orsino, Meredith all had their reasonings, and one could even sympathize with them.

We really need a villain whos the "Muahhahahha I am evil because I CAN BE!!! I will destroy your world just for the fun of it!" and whom we can see throughout the game, instead of only during two scenes.

There are complex bosses with deep compelling stories like those of BG2, and there are those simple but horrendously powerful bosses which really makes you wanna wring the life out of.

Sorry, I only read the OP of this thread, but this pretty much describes exactly what I DONT want a villain in my games to be like. IMO that just makes the villain too easy to kill. For me, part of what makes a villain threatening is if they make you doubt and question and falter. And to me, they're also better villains if they are fully responsible for their choices (and not being controled by some outside force). I thought Meredeth was a decent villain up until the red lyrium was involved. Personaly, I think that Morrigan would make a very interesting potential antagonist.

edit: I really should stop using the word villain. I like effective antagonists more than I like villains.

Modifié par phaonica, 29 avril 2011 - 07:14 .

[Faroth]

I kind of prefer the villains like Loghain. The ones who do something so corrupt and evil you have absolutely no love for them whatsoever....but as you learn more there's a part of you that starts to sympathize and even see the rationality of their "madness."

Then you read "The Stolen Throne" and you shake your fist angrily at David Gaider for making you like Loghain as you yell to the sky "You made me like him! GAAAIDEEERRRRR!"

Modifié par Faroth, 30 avril 2011 - 01:39 .

[Auroras]

 The original -- and still the best.

Modifié par Auroras, 30 avril 2011 - 03:11 .

[Harid]

I am getting tired of villains I feel sorry for, but the person should be evil, but think they are doing good rather than evil and know they are doing evil, if you know what I mean. More Jon Irenicus than Luca Blight.

Sociopaths tend not to really get any power (because people tend to realize they are sociopaths) unless it's a power grab, or they surround themselves with other sociopaths. So I always have problems with them being a main or sub villain. It worked like 10 years ago but today, more is demanded.

[TEWR]

DA3, you play as a Seeker fighting the worst threat to Thedas in its entire history. they call it....








EA

[Nerdage]

Ahhh, Irenicus, how I miss you. He had his human side, but as I remember that was his problem in the first place. I don't think he ever thought he was doing good, Harid, his only goals were revenge and power as far as I could see, and he knew it.

I'm not sure where this trend of making as many choices as possible so torturously grey and convoluted came from. The trouble with making all the choices grey is that then they're all the same colour... I may as well just pick options randomly, since I know everything I do is wrong somehow and it'll come back to bite me anyway it doesn't matter. Plus I end the game with no strong sense for my character, since one grey is much like another. Give me a proper evil to smite - or indeed usurp, if I so choose - some proper contrast to let me define my character.

Modifié par nerdage, 30 avril 2011 - 04:01 .

[TEWR]

Rojahar wrote...

If you want 1-dimensional stories and characters, why don't you just go watch cartoons? Maybe go play your Nintendo Wii?

whoa whoa whoa. the Wii has some great games with great stories, great characters, and great everything


Like Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn.

Sadly, there isn't much that the Wii can be praised for imo. There's Fire Emblem, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and Wii Sports. Everything else I've seen sucks something awful

[Dio Demon]

Evil villain ... did I hear this right??? The perfect villain would be ... ME!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA I shall put gum in your hair and steal little kids icecreams because I'm that EVIL MUAHAHAHA

Modifié par Crazy Eyed One, 30 avril 2011 - 04:19 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

We need something like GLaDOS.

Edit: In personality. Not an actual evil AI.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 30 avril 2011 - 02:34 .

[dragonflight288]

Hmm. In my opinion, the perfect antagonist would be Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII.

Skilled, charismatic, driven, misguided, powerful, and overall very, very evil with a wicked sense of humor. In real life, the people generally considered evil don't think themselves as evil. So why not have an antagonist that everyone, including our PC, looks up at as an example. But are forced to fight them, not because of the standard and cliche betrays the party, betray the world sort of deal, but as they face very real issues in the Dragon Age world, become more and more fixated on preserving things as they are. (Change is coming to the world, and some fight it with every fiber of their being).

As he or she becomes more fixated, they stop seeing any good or evil, and we the player can see their subtle decline.

That or we have a monster from the beginning and by the time we get to the end we have a more human/elven/dwarven view of them and what their motivations are.

[AlexXIV]

Flemeth? Anyone?

[Persephone]

Much prefer antagonists like Irenicus & Loghain.

The Mother in Awakening was meh.

The Archdemon was as boring as it can get.

Meredith was bloody awesome until she went from icy zealot who sometimes shows HINTS of regret (Her "If you cannot show me another way, do NOT brand me a tyrant!" gave me cold shivers, fantastic line) to completely lyrium addled monster way TOO fast. If they had taken the time to show her corruption evolve more (It IS hinted at, I.E. by Cullen) , it would have been amazing. (Ah, Act IV...where are you, when we need you?)