180 réponses à ce sujet

[viverravid]

Maybe Fantasy RPG players just prefer to make their own character?

Of course. Which is why Planescape:Torment is considered to be one of the best fantasy rpgs ever made.

Also, PS:T didn't have any of those annoying things like fixed companion armor or weapons, only 3 classes to choose from, set protagonist race and name, and a basically fixed main plot.

[PunchoT]

viverravid wrote...

Maybe Fantasy RPG players just prefer to make their own character?

Of course. Which is why Planescape:Torment is considered to be one of the best fantasy rpgs ever made.

Also, PS:T didn't have any of those annoying things like fixed companion armor or weapons, only 3 classes to choose from, set protagonist race and name, and a basically fixed main plot.

Yes, but the choices you could make as The Nameless One had more satisfying results than DA2. It probably also helped that Planescape had a far more compelling plot, numerous conversations, and played similarly to a book with all of it's descriptions and text.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Morroian wrote...

I've said it before but Hawke has come alive for me as a fully realised character more than any of my wardens did ie. its a matter of personal preference.

You're missing the point.  We're not talking about how alive or fully realised he is.

We're talking about how well you know him.  You don''t know Hawke as well as you can know the Warden, because Hawke sometimes acts on his own.  Unless you can predict his behaviour 100% of the time, he's less your character than the Warden could be.

Roleplaying requires certainty.

[Sylvius the Mad]

viverravid wrote...

Also, PS:T didn't have any of those annoying things like fixed companion armor or weapons, only 3 classes to choose from, set protagonist race and name, and a basically fixed main plot.

That just demonstrates how unimportant the main plot is in crafting a great RPG.

It's the roleplaying that matters.  That's all that ever patters.

RPG gameplay consists entirely of in-character decision-making.  That's literally the whole game.

[Nassegris]

First off… I’m not all negative about the game, there are aspects of it that I like and I quite enjoyed my first play-through. I’m trying to make it through a second one but I don’t think it’s happening. I played through Origins 8 times. 8.

Now… with not being able to make my own character – Origins gave me such a gorgeous taste of what it was like to have control of who my character was. I’ve never been allowed to go into the details of his or her personality to that extent in a game before, nor have I seen such depth of interaction with NPCs in the game. I was excited with every new companion because I could figure out how my Warden would relate to them and the relationships (friendship, enemy, neutral, lover, etc) really gave spice to the plot for me and gave me a reason to want to go back. I love the ME games, I really do – I adore them, actually, but I only ever play through them once. There’s no reason to do it all over again, not for me, and now the same is true of DA2.

Why would I play it again when usually, whatever I reply to someone I’ll get a quick comment back and then they continue talking as though I never said anything. I feel I have no impact. I feel I have no control over my own character when I have a choice of three responses – super-nice, loony and vicious, and sometimes the things she says is just completely out of line with what I wanted and I’m chewing my nails in frustration. On top of that – boom, three years pass. During these three years, apparently she or he was incapable of picking up new skills, changing relationships with already existing companions, figuring out why the heck her lover ran off in the middle of the night, and on top of that, she’s making new acquaintances she then idly waves and says hello to later and I’m supposed to be ‘playing’ her, supposed to BE her in this game yet I feel like I have no clue what the heck is going on in her head.

The whole thing with being unable to talk to your companions whenever you like bugs the heck out of me. The interaction is narrowed down to nothing. If she has a fight with them and then isn’t allowed to address it until she’s done a quest much later – that’s pretty messed up. Especially since if she tries to talk to them they’ll just respond with a generic reply that makes it seem like they’ve been inflicted with amnesia.

Give me some control back over my character. Give me some way of deciding what happened during the lost years. Let me decide who her friends are and more importantly – let her talk to her companions whenever she likes, because the current situation makes all the relationships extremely shallow. “Hi, I’m Hawke!”, “Hi, I’m Anders!”, “Let’s make out!”

With the conversation choices so incredibly narrow, the interaction with the Companions so very frail and inconsistent, decisions about her interactions with other people decided behind my back during time gaps and me left feeling like there’s no way MY Hawke would be behaving like this or let others treat her like this but I have no other choice – I don’t end up feeling she’s my Hawke at all. I’m playing a character in a locked-down story where I have minimal impact.

This would have been fine with a stand alone game but not in a world where I’ve played a game that rocked the floor underneath my feet and made me feel like a part of it. Without DA:O I would never have known how spectacular this game could have been and I would have liked it better (I still love it), but with DA:O in my back pocket, I keep wishing I could have grown to know Varric in Origins instead, so we could’ve sat by the campfire, chatting about inconsequential stuff, making jokes and maybe he’d tell me some story from his childhood, or I could have grown to like Anders because he’d talk about something other than the evil of the templars, and I might have gone as Crazy (with capital C) for Fenris as I did for Zev… because there was definitely potential there, but alas, I never get to know him very well.

Sorry. Very long post. I feel sad now.

[Ponendus]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Morroian wrote...

I've said it before but Hawke has come alive for me as a fully realised character more than any of my wardens did ie. its a matter of personal preference.

You're missing the point.  We're not talking about how alive or fully realised he is.

We're talking about how well you know him.  You don''t know Hawke as well as you can know the Warden, because Hawke sometimes acts on his own.  Unless you can predict his behaviour 100% of the time, he's less your character than the Warden could be.

Roleplaying requires certainty.

Yeah this pretty much sums up what I think. Roleplaying requires certainty, its ok if the world or events are a surprise, but it doesn't work for me when my own characters actions take me by surprise.