409 réponses à ce sujet

[Lunatic LK47]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
You honestly believe that ME1's skill tree was confusing? It had descriptions for each ability right in the game. ME2's skill progression system is useless since you only have about 4-5 skills and have to invest in only those, with the exception of some leftovers for certain classes. Then you choose an upgraded form of the skill. In ME1 it was more detailed, and you had specializations. ME2 isn't a convergence of genres, it's a transition from Shooter/RPG to complete Shooter. 

-Polite

Uh, the ME1 skill system is not confusing, but just ended up being badly designed. I avoided Adepts, Sentinels, and Engineers like the plague just because they only had access to handguns, making 3/4ths of their arsenal useless. Adept's access to pistol training was outright stupid (i.e. Why do I have to waste valuable skill points in armor just to access a handgun? What's next, I need to ride a bicycle if I want to learn how to play basketball?), not to mention tech-oriented skills like Sabotage and Damping would keep us out of the action for TWO ****ING MINUTES, leaving us nothing more than a rifle-butt or pistol whip. Hell, even the weapon-based skills is outright senseless considering Shepard is a SPECIAL FORCES MARINE (i.e. Hardcore training regimen involved, and it usually involves HUNDREDS OF HOURS IN THE FIRING RANGE.) What did Shepard do, cry himself/herself to asleep because of Akuze/Elysium/Torfan? WTF did Udina, Anderson, and Hackett pick Shepard as a Spectre candidate if this became the case?

[snakeboy86]

i'm more convinced everyday thats it literally impossible to make everyone happy, as this DLC and many others have shown

[Lukertin]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
Hell, even the weapon-based skills is outright senseless considering Shepard is a SPECIAL FORCES MARINE (i.e. Hardcore training regimen involved, and it usually involves HUNDREDS OF HOURS IN THE FIRING RANGE.) What did Shepard do, cry himself/herself to asleep because of Akuze/Elysium/Torfan? WTF did Udina, Anderson, and Hackett pick Shepard as a Spectre candidate if this became the case?

It's especially funny given that in the country with the largest Marine force (USA), every marine is a rifleman, and in other countries with sizable Marine forces (a rather pointless distinction since the US Navy is five times the size of the next largest navy), rifle usage is a huge component of training.  You would think that in the future, the Systems Alliance would model a lot of their basic training and traditions after the largest and best militaries that exist at that particular point in the time.

[Naltair]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
You honestly believe that ME1's skill tree was confusing? It had descriptions for each ability right in the game. ME2's skill progression system is useless since you only have about 4-5 skills and have to invest in only those, with the exception of some leftovers for certain classes. Then you choose an upgraded form of the skill. In ME1 it was more detailed, and you had specializations. ME2 isn't a convergence of genres, it's a transition from Shooter/RPG to complete Shooter. 

-Polite

I was pointing to how it was muddled and not clear, anyway I am not seeing much of a discussion here, you came here to whine so I shall leave you to it.

[Lunatic LK47]

Lukertin wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
Hell, even the weapon-based skills is outright senseless considering Shepard is a SPECIAL FORCES MARINE (i.e. Hardcore training regimen involved, and it usually involves HUNDREDS OF HOURS IN THE FIRING RANGE.) What did Shepard do, cry himself/herself to asleep because of Akuze/Elysium/Torfan? WTF did Udina, Anderson, and Hackett pick Shepard as a Spectre candidate if this became the case?

It's especially funny given that in the country with the largest Marine force (USA), every marine is a rifleman, and in other countries with sizable Marine forces (a rather pointless distinction since the US Navy is five times the size of the next largest navy), rifle usage is a huge component of training.  You would think that in the future, the Systems Alliance would model a lot of their basic training and traditions after the largest and best militaries that exist at that particular point in the time.

No ****. Even Delta Force operatives, British S.A.S operatives., and Navy SEALs have higher standards and are expected to be more precise considering they don't have the luxury of twenty magazinees if they need to carry out covert operations.

[MajesticJazz]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm really dissapointed with Bioware's actions lately. They've really fallen from who they were before. However I'm not the one who will be at loss. The RPG fanbase you have forsaken will simply find another means of entertainment. We have other viable alternatives. If you don't want to play ball, you will simply lose your customers. Judging by the reaction to DA2, I'm sure ME3 will be where you start to see a more significant hit in sales.

Rest in peace Bioware of old. I will indeed miss you.

-Polite

RIP Bioware
1995-2007

[TheSeventhJedi]

I think there are several reasons why this seemed like more of a shooter - because let's be honest - it really is just a side quest in the exact same game, so why does it play like a shooter?

#1 No one cared about any of the "loot." Loot was lacking enough in ME2 as it was, but when you're playing through this with your first Shepard, and you've literally done everything there is to do, explored every nook and cranny, bought every upgrade, all of that - what in the world are you gonna do with 500 credits here and there and a medigel upgrade?

#2 Conversation - not only was too much of it on autopilot, but like much of the ME1 dialogue, your choice of response well and truly didn't matter. Not just in the long term though - you would say something, there would be a noticeable pause, and then you would get back on track to the autopilot. There wasn't a single choice, and the renegade interrupt was too little, too late.

#3 Combat for the sake of combat. The combat was - dare I say it - pointless. At the prison, I expect to be attacked (which I can, ironically, avoid.) Once Kenson flips, I expect some of her followers to attack (and I think we can agree the Object Rho fight was perhaps the best part.) When I survive all five waves, the object forces me down, out of nowhere, and for no reason. But then... I wake up! She says "we want Shepard alive." Umm.... why? Let's forget that they've kept me sedated for two days, and that none of her employees aren't indoctrinated, why? Finally, you only fight a few guys until you set the asteroid in motion, and of course, Kenson rigs it to blow. Indoctrinated or not - I'm gettin the hell outta Dodge! Why are there still people fighting me as I'm on my way to the shuttle? One of them yells out that the shuttle left them behind - of course it did! You were walking AWAY from the shuttle to fight one dude!

To the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker. If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter, and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.



As a near-unrelated aside - I actually liked DA2 a fair bit. I thought the mechanics were much improved over DAO. My problem is that I'm into act 3 of DA2 - and I still don't know what the story is. That's a problem. No offense to any of the BW writers who normally do a superb job, but I really hope Drew K finished with TOR in time to help out with ME3.

Modifié par TheSeventhJedi, 31 mars 2011 - 03:34 .

[greed89]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

I fail to see how how Arrival had no RPG elements in it. ME is an RPG in the fact that you make choices that affect the story. And it's been marketed as an action-rpg shooter. There really isn't a better term for it. At the end of the day, who bloody cares what genre it belongs to? What matters is how good the game is for WHAT it is, not for how well it can conform to ONE man's definition. They don't make ME with the ultimate goal being to make it fall strictly within certain boundaries. No, they try to make the best story they can, tell it the best way they can, and make it as emotionally engaging as they can through the gameplay. It's foolish making a game and restricting yourself to genre definitions. Screw genre definitions. There's been plenty a book, movie, tv show, artwork, piece of graphic design that's been REALLY good precisely because it "broke the rules."

ME started out as an RPG. ME2 is a shooter, with little RPG elements in it. It's only inevitable given Bioware's current course with the game that ME3 will have less RPG features than ME2, which was minimal. The game is supposed to be the players unique and personal universe, according to Casey Hudson. Please explain to me how that can be the case if the player's character already has predetermined dialogue and choices? Look throughout ME2 and the entire LoTSB and Arrival DLC's and you'll know what I mean. If there are set choices, and automatic dialogue sequences, what's there to differentiate between two people who play Mass Effect? It won't be a unique personal experience at all. It will be the same exact experience for everyone, thus proving Mr. Hudson a liar. Unfortunately, that's where they're heading. It's been seen in DA2, it's been seen in ME2, what do you think will happen in ME3?

-Polite

ME2 only had a few auto Dialouge and none of them required a variety of difrent awnsers


your making a mountain out of a mole hill

[george martin]

ME1 while a fantastic game with a great story was still actually quite short, after you're done on the citadel you can finish the game in no time if you don't do many side missions. ME2 is a much longer game, has more dialogue and is a great rpg. Not as good a storyline as ME1 but still very entertaining with fantastic voice acting and far better game play.

Concluding that ME3 will be like the arrival DLC doesn't make any sense to me, you're comparing a future game to one DLC, essentially comparing apples and oranges. I'm sure ME3 will be a mixture of shooting and RPG just like the first 2. They do need more dialogue in the game when squad mates are walking out and about, the elevator rides would be better than loading screens, and fewer squad mates with more dialogue would be more preferable for me. 6-8 squad mates max is all they really need anyways.

In any case wait till the game comes out you may be very surprised.

[greed89]

Some people wont be happy with ME# unless ur attacking with swords and just clicking on your opponents via DAO

[MajesticJazz]

TheSeventhJedi wrote...


To the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker. If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter, and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.

The original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with Mass Effect?

[emmanuelsieyes]

Arrival and Lair of the Shadow Broker are _bridging_ DLC's. The entire idea is that they build up the story for ME3. BioWare gave us Arrival and LoTSB so that we get to see story elements happening - instead of just hearing about it in a cutscene, or reading about it in CDN.

Having Liara be the Shadow Broker will be an important plot point for ME3. Blowing up that relay will be an important plot point for ME3.

[Tazzmission]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Arrival and Lair of the Shadow Broker are _bridging_ DLC's. The entire idea is that they build up the story for ME3. BioWare gave us Arrival and LoTSB so that we get to see story elements happening - instead of just hearing about it in a cutscene, or reading about it in CDN.

Having Liara be the Shadow Broker will be an important plot point for ME3. Blowing up that relay will be an important plot point for ME3.

and dont forget even for an hour of gameplay arrival is more of a prolouge to me3.... wich imo is a great way to start teasing btw

[greed89]

MajesticJazz wrote...

TheSeventhJedi wrote...


To the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker. If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter, and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.

The original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with Mass Effect?

And i wonder how much of that "agumentation" will be pointless and redundant?

[Niddy']

I'm surprised this lasted so long, Mods usually lock and delete anything with criticism.

[Lukertin]

MajesticJazz wrote...
The original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with Mass Effect?

The difference is that the original Deus Ex bored me, Mass Effect didn't.

[MajesticJazz]

greed89 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

TheSeventhJedi wrote...


To the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker. If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter, and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.

The original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with Mass Effect?

And i wonder how much of that "agumentation" will be pointless and redundant?

I take it that you never played the original Deus Ex game ha?

In that game, the original, there was various upgrades/augmentation that basically served as your leveling up and NONE of it was pointless and redundant. I don't want to get into the details, but all I'm trying to say is that just because ME was supposed to be a hybrid of Shooter and RPG, doesn't mean that the RPG had to be VERY basic like it was in ME2.

Deus Ex proved that you can have a hardcore FPS shooter title, but still at the same time have hardcore RPG elements. The same is being applied to the prequle, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Basically Eidos Montreal is making DE: HR 50% FPS/Shooter and the other 50% Exploration/RPG.

What Bioware did with ME2 was make it 80% Shooter and 20% Exploration/RPG.


In other words, Deus Ex and even Deus Ex: Human Revolution is what a REAL Shooter-RPG is/should be. Bioware's ME2 was just a plain out 3rd Person shooter, that took some RPG elements and embedded it within the gameplay.

[greed89]

MajesticJazz wrote...

greed89 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

TheSeventhJedi wrote...


To the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker. If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter, and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.

The original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with Mass Effect?

And i wonder how much of that "agumentation" will be pointless and redundant?

I take it that you never played the original Deus Ex game ha?

In that game, the original, there was various upgrades/augmentation that basically served as your leveling up and NONE of it was pointless and redundant. I don't want to get into the details, but all I'm trying to say is that just because ME was supposed to be a hybrid of Shooter and RPG, doesn't mean that the RPG had to be VERY basic like it was in ME2.

Deus Ex proved that you can have a hardcore FPS shooter title, but still at the same time have hardcore RPG elements. The same is being applied to the prequle, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Basically Eidos Montreal is making DE: HR 50% FPS/Shooter and the other 50% Exploration/RPG.

What Bioware did with ME2 was make it 80% Shooter and 20% Exploration/RPG.


In other words, Deus Ex and even Deus Ex: Human Revolution is what a REAL Shooter-RPG is/should be. Bioware's ME2 was just a plain out 3rd Person shooter, that took some RPG elements and embedded it within the gameplay.

ohh please

Not havign a a bottomless and retareded inventory system didnt make  ME2 any less of a rpg

[MajesticJazz]

Lukertin wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...
The original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with Mass Effect?

The difference is that the original Deus Ex bored me, Mass Effect didn't.

Or course Deus Ex bored you! Because it wasn't created to cateer to gamers with a short attention span. I think that statement of yours pretty much sums up what Bioware was trying to do with ME2 and even DA2. They saw how great Call of Duty was and how it is pretty much ALL ACTION and cinematic, and wanted that in ME2.

Deus Ex probably has one of the most intriguing videogame stories from the years 2000-2010. It told the story of transhumanism very well and was meant as an adult game for people who care about story and deep conflict. 

As for Deus Ex: Human Revolution.....have you seen the trailers? I expect that game to have just as much action/cinematic storytelling as ME3 is not more and done 100x better!

My point is.....Bioware "says" that they are trying to make a hybrid Shooter-RPG which is why ME2 wasn't the hardcore RPG that people expect, but yet companies like Eidos Montreal is making a Shooter-RPG in Deus Ex: Human Revolution and yet that has WAY MORE RPG elements in with WITHOUT compromising the gameplay/combat. In other words, Deus Ex: Human Revoultion is a TRUE Shooter-RPG hybrid as it is 50% Combat/Shooter and 50% Exploration/RPG. I cannot say the same about ME2 and I don't think ME3 will be any different as ME2 was mainly 80% Combat/Shooter and 20% Exploration/RPG.

[TheSeventhJedi]

greed89 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

greed89 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

TheSeventhJedi wrote...


To the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker. If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter, and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.

The original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with Mass Effect?

And i wonder how much of that "agumentation" will be pointless and redundant?

I take it that you never played the original Deus Ex game ha?

In that game, the original, there was various upgrades/augmentation that basically served as your leveling up and NONE of it was pointless and redundant. I don't want to get into the details, but all I'm trying to say is that just because ME was supposed to be a hybrid of Shooter and RPG, doesn't mean that the RPG had to be VERY basic like it was in ME2.

Deus Ex proved that you can have a hardcore FPS shooter title, but still at the same time have hardcore RPG elements. The same is being applied to the prequle, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Basically Eidos Montreal is making DE: HR 50% FPS/Shooter and the other 50% Exploration/RPG.

What Bioware did with ME2 was make it 80% Shooter and 20% Exploration/RPG.


In other words, Deus Ex and even Deus Ex: Human Revolution is what a REAL Shooter-RPG is/should be. Bioware's ME2 was just a plain out 3rd Person shooter, that took some RPG elements and embedded it within the gameplay.

ohh please

Not havign a a bottomless and retareded inventory system didnt make  ME2 any less of a rpg

Quote tree for this.^

Deus Ex is great, I agree, but the pace was nowhere near the awesome pace of Mass Effect - in my opinion, of course.  ME1's inventory was a joke, as were the upgrades and exploring, and pretty much every other RPG aspect.  ME2's redesign was a knee-jerk reaction to try and fix it, and while they went in the right direction for my tastes, they passed the mark and kept going.  I really hope the crew at BW has their eyes on the potential of a system like Deus Ex though, and makes the ME system more robust. 

That wasn't my point though.  I was simply arguing why Arrival felt like more of a shooter than the rest of ME2.  If we were talking which RPG aspects we would add or change, we would turn into the thread that shall not be named again, and that thread never goes anywhere because it's left so much up to personal taste.

[greed89]

Singing up allot of praises of a game that isn't even out yet

[Tazzmission]

Niddy' wrote...

I'm surprised this lasted so long, Mods usually lock and delete anything with criticism.

probably because this is the final dlc and they may figure you know what let them express how they feel

[Jaron Oberyn]

[quote]Naltair wrote...

[quote]PoliteAssasin wrote...
You honestly believe that ME1's skill tree was confusing? It had descriptions for each ability right in the game. ME2's skill progression system is useless since you only have about 4-5 skills and have to invest in only those, with the exception of some leftovers for certain classes. Then you choose an upgraded form of the skill. In ME1 it was more detailed, and you had specializations. ME2 isn't a convergence of genres, it's a transition from Shooter/RPG to complete Shooter. 

-Polite
[/quote]
I was pointing to how it was muddled and not clear, anyway I am not seeing much of a discussion here, you came here to whine so I shall leave you to it.

[/quote]

I don't understand how criticism of the diminishment of RPG elements is equivalent to whining. It's feedback. So judging by the logic in your statement, unless someone is discussing how great and flawless Bioware's games are they're whining. Well you go ahead and think that my friend. It's not going to get you far going into denial. The game has some serious flaws, and it's transitioning from one genre to another.

[quote]greed89 wrote...

[quote]PoliteAssasin wrote...

[quote]AwesomeName wrote...

I
fail to see how how Arrival had no RPG elements in it. ME is an RPG in
the fact that you make choices that affect the story. And it's been
marketed as an action-rpg shooter. There really isn't a better term for
it. At the end of the day, who bloody cares what genre it belongs to?
What matters is how good the game is for WHAT it is, not for how well
it can conform to ONE man's definition. They don't make ME with the
ultimate goal being to make it fall strictly within certain boundaries.
No, they try to make the best story they can, tell it the best way they
can, and make it as emotionally engaging as they can through the
gameplay. It's foolish making a game and restricting yourself to genre
definitions. Screw genre definitions. There's been plenty a book,
movie, tv show, artwork, piece of graphic design that's been REALLY good
precisely because it "broke the rules."[/quote]

ME started out
as an RPG. ME2 is a shooter, with little RPG elements in it. It's only
inevitable given Bioware's current course with the game that ME3 will
have less RPG features than ME2, which was minimal. The game is supposed
to be the players unique and personal universe, according to Casey
Hudson. Please explain to me how that can be the case if the player's
character already has predetermined dialogue and choices? Look
throughout ME2 and the entire LoTSB and Arrival DLC's and you'll know
what I mean. If there are set choices, and automatic dialogue sequences,
what's there to differentiate between two people who play Mass Effect?
It won't be a unique personal experience at all. It will be the same
exact experience for everyone, thus proving Mr. Hudson a liar.
Unfortunately, that's where they're heading. It's been seen in DA2, it's
been seen in ME2, what do you think will happen in ME3?

-Polite
[/quote]

ME2 only had a few auto Dialouge and none of them required a variety of difrent awnsers


your making a mountain out of a mole hill

[/quote]

I think you should consider playing the game over again before making such an erroneous statement.

[quote]MajesticJazz wrote...

[quote]TheSeventhJedi wrote...


To
the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG
mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker.
If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've
never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter,
and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're
experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I
think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has
me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.
[/quote]

The
original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also
Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG
elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution
and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is
not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with
Mass Effect?

[/quote]

Because Bioware/EA fears that the RPG system would be too complicated and scare away the CoD consumer base that they're trying to target. They don't realize that CoD players, or at least the majority of them, aren't interested in role playing games at all.

[quote]greed89 wrote...

[quote]MajesticJazz wrote...

[quote]greed89 wrote...

[quote]MajesticJazz wrote...

[quote]TheSeventhJedi wrote...


To
the OP - BW never intended to make a straight RPG, and many of the RPG
mechanics and "choice" of ME1 were expensive lipstick on an ugly hooker.
If the story hadn't been so absolutely amazing, the sequel would've
never been made. They also never intended to make a straight shooter,
and many of the Gears arguments are reductio ad absurdum. They're
experimenting to find that sweet spot between action and RPG, and I
think they can find it for ME3. Ironically, the part of Arrival that has
me most worried for ME3 is actually the story/writing.
[/quote]

The
original Deus Ex and (And the Human Revolution prequel) were/are also
Action/FPS-RPGs and yet those games STILL managed to pull off heavy RPG
elements. I mean have you seen the videos for Deus Ex: Human Revolution
and all the possible augmentation options available? Eidos Montreal is
not watering down the RPG elements in Deus Ex, so why is Bioware with
Mass Effect?

[/quote]


And i wonder how much of that "agumentation" will be pointless and redundant?

[/quote]

I take it that you never played the original Deus Ex game ha?

In
that game, the original, there was various upgrades/augmentation that
basically served as your leveling up and NONE of it was pointless and
redundant. I don't want to get into the details, but all I'm trying to
say is that just because ME was supposed to be a hybrid of Shooter and
RPG, doesn't mean that the RPG had to be VERY basic like it was in ME2.

Deus
Ex proved that you can have a hardcore FPS shooter title, but still at
the same time have hardcore RPG elements. The same is being applied to
the prequle, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Basically Eidos Montreal is
making DE: HR 50% FPS/Shooter and the other 50% Exploration/RPG.

What Bioware did with ME2 was make it 80% Shooter and 20% Exploration/RPG.


In
other words, Deus Ex and even Deus Ex: Human Revolution is what a REAL
Shooter-RPG is/should be. Bioware's ME2 was just a plain out 3rd Person
shooter, that took some RPG elements and embedded it within the
gameplay.

[/quote]ohh please

Not havign a a bottomless and retareded inventory system didnt make  ME2 any less of a rpg

[/quote]

Says the person who regards ME2 as pure gold. Just because some people don't have the mental capacity or patience to handle a highly detailed inventory system doesn't mean it's retarded, and it doesn't mean that others can't. Also, I'm pretty sure it was capped at 50 items at a time, not bottomless. No need to exaggerate to try to make your point.

-Polite

[Il Divo]

MajesticJazz wrote...
Or course Deus Ex bored you! Because it wasn't created to cateer to gamers with a short attention span. I think that statement of yours pretty much sums up what Bioware was trying to do with ME2 and even DA2. They saw how great Call of Duty was and how it is pretty much ALL ACTION and cinematic, and wanted that in ME2.

I'd disagree. The game hardly required any complex thought. Sure, it allowed for multiple playstyles, but the actual statistics were even more basic than those presented in Mass Effect. Once you've chosen to be stealth, combat, tech, etc, everything else falls into place. Deus Ex's greatness stems from the sheer variety of playstyles available, not from some high attention span requirement.

Deus Ex probably has one of the most intriguing videogame stories from the years 2000-2010. It told the story of transhumanism very well and was meant as an adult game for people who care about story and deep conflict. 

Once again, I'd disagree. The story was detailed, but didn't really examine any deeper concepts. Transhumanism as a concept was fun to explore, but I rarely (if ever) found myself emotionally vested, something which I can say for Mass Effect 2 and most other Bioware games. Deus Ex didn't strike me as the best example of an 'adult' game. Planescape: Torment is a much better example in this regard, for multiple reasons.

As for Deus Ex: Human Revolution.....have you seen the trailers? I expect that game to have just as much action/cinematic storytelling as ME3 is not more and done 100x better!

My point is.....Bioware "says" that they are trying to make a hybrid Shooter-RPG which is why ME2 wasn't the hardcore RPG that people expect, but yet companies like Eidos Montreal is making a Shooter-RPG in Deus Ex: Human Revolution and yet that has WAY MORE RPG elements in with WITHOUT compromising the gameplay/combat. In other words, Deus Ex: Human Revoultion is a TRUE Shooter-RPG hybrid as it is 50% Combat/Shooter and 50% Exploration/RPG. I cannot say the same about ME2 and I don't think ME3 will be any different as ME2 was mainly 80% Combat/Shooter and 20% Exploration/RPG.

This reminds me of the Ign boards when people would talk about how prior to release Fable was going to replace Morrowind as a much better RPG, which turned out not to be the case. Deus Ex: HR looks incredible, but until we're all playing, maybe we should restrict this to games actually released.

Modifié par Il Divo, 31 mars 2011 - 04:49 .