409 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander_Adept]

Remus Artega wrote...

Commander_Adept wrote...

I wouldn't say that DLC is what it would be in Mass 3. I think Mass 1 was TOO RPG-ish, them taking away the equipment aspect but keeping gun customization, look customization and skills was definitely an improvement, for me, in Mass 2. Plus (The story was better in 2).

way to turn this topic into another ME1 vs. ME2 hassle...

Wasn't the intention, bro.

I was addressing the topic at hand, which is that the games have been changed since the beginning. I'm simply saying that the RPG part has been improved in Mass 2, whereas Mass 1's RPG elements seemed forced, to me at least. Plus Mass 2 had a better story.

[Commander_Adept]

Triple post, really?

Modifié par Commander_Adept, 30 mars 2011 - 03:39 .

[Commander_Adept]

Damn triple post

Modifié par Commander_Adept, 30 mars 2011 - 03:38 .

[CptAwesomePhD]

Genre is literally the worst thing that ever happened to any form of entertainment and I wish we could just judge games for what they are individually rather than bickering endlessly about whether they fit some arbitrary definition of what an RPG is. The gameplay of ME1 was almost identical to that of ME2 in that there was shooting, there was talking, and there was developing your character. ME2 greatly improved shooting, left talking almost untouched and streamlined character development into something you may or may not like, to me it's less 'fumbling around and turning junk into omingel' and more 'being an awesome superhero in space whose decisions determine the fate of the galaxy'.

Also, both ME 1 and ME 2 are terrific games, both writing- and gameplay-wise, and as someone who has played pretty much every Bioware RPG except Dragon Age I really don't see how Baldur's Gate or KOTOR were in any way 'deeper' or 'better' than either of them. They simply had you spend much more time managing spreadsheets in ways that were neither challenging nor interesting.

Modifié par CptAwesomePhD, 30 mars 2011 - 03:45 .

[tonnactus]

Il Divo wrote...


2) Neither Shepard, Illusive Man, or damn near anyone thought about the repercussions

Lesser ones then letting the reapers succeed.

Illusive Man was also curious about finding more information on the Reapers.

 

The derelict reaper was the perfect opportunity for this.

[termokanden]

CptAwesomePhD wrote...

Also, both ME 1 and ME 2 are terrific games, both writing- and gameplay-wise, and as someone who has played pretty much every Bioware RPG except Dragon Age I really don't see how Baldur's Gate or KOTOR were in any way 'deeper' or 'better' than either of them. They simply had you spend much more time managing spreadsheets in ways that were neither challenging nor interesting.

As much as I like the ME games, I have to disagree with that statement. Some people like to mess around with character builds. There are fewer options in ME2 because of how much skill evolutions cost. Combine that with a global cooldown and most people are likely to max 5 skills and put 1 point elsewhere. Now remove the class ability and passive (who doesn't max that?) and you have 3 skills left to max. Often it's pretty obvious what to pick here since the selection per class is limited, and some skills require points in other skills to max. Basically there's customization going on, but not all that much.

KotOR had some interesting options. I think NWN plus expansions was Bioware's best game for playing around with character builds though. Baldur's Gate didn't have much character planning beyond rolling and picking stats at level 1.

[Whatever42]

tonnactus wrote...

The derelict reaper was the perfect opportunity for this.

And TIM had a team there. So are you saying having a derelict Reaper should satisfy him and he won't pursue other avenues?

[tonnactus]

termokanden wrote...

As much as I like the ME games, I have to disagree with that statement. Some people like to mess around with character builds. There are fewer options in ME2 because of how much skill evolutions cost. Combine that with a global cooldown and most people are likely to max 5 skills and put 1 point elsewhere. Now remove the class ability and passive (who doesn't max that?) and you have 3 skills left to max.

And then someone might think that something like special ammo shouldnt ever been a power and didnt see it as one.So the soldier is left with 2 active abilities without the bonus talent.And some people called Dragon Age II dumbed down...

Modifié par tonnactus, 30 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[Babli]

I agree with OP. Arrival felt too much like some third person shooter. Absolutely no RPG was involved, almost everything was automatic dialogue and shooting, story and its presentation was meh and it felt somehow..empty. The worst thing was, I wasnt connected with my Shepard at all.

[Slayer299]

blacqout wrote...

Again, you're throwing your opinions around as if they are facts written in stone. They are just that, opinions, unless you have evidence that you can actually "show" said facts. If not, then be quiet and stop telling people they are ignorant for not agreeing with you. That's the behaviour of an 8yr old child....


It's impossible to prove a negative, so you'll have to forgive me for offering no evidence in support of my claim that EA are the only publisher to alter their logo for different game boxes. I'm just assuming that the people here pay attention to this sort of thing, in which case they'll agree with my assessment, but if that's an unreasonable assumption, i apologise.

As far as EA's altering of their logo to suit the ME and Dragon Age franchises, it simply does result in the aesthetic betterment of both brands.

You are the only person acting like a child here, Miss. I've been polite in my presenting my assessments, unlike you.

Ah, here we go again. You cannot make a *claim* that somehow, because EA alters their logo to match the artwork on the box of a piece of software they publish that it makes them respectful of the devs "artistic vision". That is an assumption that just makes little sense and you state you have no evidence, therefore what you have said is an opinion, not a fact. "Since it is impossible to prove a negative" - as you so clearly state, then your opinion is just that and you have proved my case for me...thank you!

You then go on to say that either I can admit your correct or I am wrong ("choose ignorance") is grossly insulting that your opinion is the only one that has any merit what-so-ever.

You can choose to recognise it, or you can choose ignorance, but the
fact that EA's care to alter their logo to fit an art scheme makes for a
better case is just that - a fact.

When you speak as if you're right and everyone else is wrong because you say so, that is acting like an 8yr old irregardless of your *actual* age. I do not make the assumption that I am always right and if proven wrong I admit it. You however have the opinion that there is only one way to see things....yours. Good Day.

edit - annoying formatting

Modifié par Slayer299, 30 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[tonnactus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


And TIM had a team there. So are you saying having a derelict Reaper should satisfy him and he won't pursue other avenues?

Priority number one: Stop the reapers abducting human colonies and whatever other plans they have.
Shooting an asteroid on the omega 4 relay would do excactly this. Stoping the collector ship just on horizon with the weapons of the normandy would be another option,but this mysteriously didnt happen in the game too.

[CptAwesomePhD]

termokanden wrote...

CptAwesomePhD wrote...

Also, both ME 1 and ME 2 are terrific games, both writing- and gameplay-wise, and as someone who has played pretty much every Bioware RPG except Dragon Age I really don't see how Baldur's Gate or KOTOR were in any way 'deeper' or 'better' than either of them. They simply had you spend much more time managing spreadsheets in ways that were neither challenging nor interesting.

As much as I like the ME games, I have to disagree with that statement. Some people like to mess around with character builds. There are fewer options in ME2 because of how much skill evolutions cost. Combine that with a global cooldown and most people are likely to max 5 skills and put 1 point elsewhere. Now remove the class ability and passive (who doesn't max that?) and you have 3 skills left to max. Often it's pretty obvious what to pick here since the selection per class is limited, and some skills require points in other skills to max. Basically there's customization going on, but not all that much.

KotOR had some interesting options. I think NWN plus expansions was Bioware's best game for playing around with character builds though. Baldur's Gate didn't have much character planning beyond rolling and picking stats at level 1.

Fair statement, fiddling around with character builds is a perfectly legitimate approach to playing RPGs. I guess this is really where genre becomes the crux of the whole thing. The instant you market a game as an RPG, different people will approach it with wildly different expectations of what it should let them do. To me, an RPG should allow me to immerse miyself in a vibrant and dynamic world that reacts to my actions and decisions. I want to be able to develop my character in ways that fit my style of playing, but i really don't care too much about the numbers behind the experience. So that's why I love the Mass Effect Games.

Players like you - and correct me if I'm wrong - are strategists that care deeply about game mechanics, about finding out how everything works and how every aspect of character development figures into how the game plays out. That's cool too. It's just that I don't think either approach is necessarily more 'RPG-ish' than the other, nor is the former in any way a 'dumbed down' version of the latter.

Modifié par CptAwesomePhD, 30 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[Remus Artega]

Babli wrote...

I agree with OP. Arrival felt too much like some third person shooter. Absolutely no RPG was involved, almost everything was automatic dialogue and shooting, story and its presentation was meh and it felt somehow..empty. The worst thing was, I wasnt connected with my Shepard at all.

Precisely I assume that to some the way Shepard think about the problem was ok...but my Shepard is not that concerned about Earth as much as he fears of the fate of entire galaxy...

Modifié par Remus Artega, 30 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[Whatever42]

tonnactus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


And TIM had a team there. So are you saying having a derelict Reaper should satisfy him and he won't pursue other avenues?

Priority number one: Stop the reapers abducting human colonies and whatever other plans they have.
Shooting an asteroid on the omega 4 relay would do excactly this. Stoping the collector ship just on horizon with the weapons of the normandy would be another option,but this mysteriously didnt happen in the game too.

That's where you make your mistake. Where did TIM say his first priority was in stopping the abduction of human colonies.  Stopping the Reapers from destroying the galaxy is the number one priority. That means risk. Simply stopping one minor henchman of the Reapers does nothing to save us. We need to find out why they are doing what they are doing and discover everything they know about the Reapers.

[robarcool]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

It seems the ME series is finally a pure shooter game. While ME1 was an rpg, and ME2 was a shooter with rpg elements in it, if Arrival/LoTSB are any indication to what ME3 will be, ME3 will be nothing but a shooter.

Let me start of by saying I was extremely disappointed with this new DLC. I was reluctant to buy it at first, but figured that after the collossal failure of DA2, Bioware wasn't going to risk ruining another franchise. I guess I was wrong. This DLC took me little over an hour to beat. 99% of the whole expansion was shooting. It was nothing but a shooting gallery. There were very few instances of dialogue, howver they were extremely short and guess what the kicker part was - IT WAS ALMOST ALL AUTOMATIC DIALOGUE. There were maybe 2 times where you could choose from the full dialogue whee. There were another 3 or so times where you could only choose ONE option in order to progress the conversation, thus rendering the "option" to "choose" completely useless. This trilogy is supposed to be about the players own character, as said by Bioware, yet how can that be when the character is completely out of our control in dialogue? With the little amount of dialogue they had, would it have been so much to implement player control? I kid you not, it felt so much like a typical 3rd person shooter. Bioware should quit calling it an RPG and admit that ME2 is nothing but a shooter. If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

Now onto the DLC. It was extremely short. It went so fast that you didn't even have a chance to understand what was going on. It was just shoot 30 people in this room, walk over here and pull a plug, shoot another 50, pull another plug. Then it just progressed into a total shooting gallery. The only time for dialogue was at the very beginning, a portion of the middle with a certain villain, and right at the end. The bulk of the DLC was just combat, and very bad combat mind you. If I wanted to play a shooter game, I'd play a game like GoW which does it better. I invested my time into this trilogy because it was supposed to be an RPG. After ME1 that all went down the drain apparently. LoTSB was the first hint with it's significant use of automatic dialogue and overuse of combat sequences, and now Arrival is the icing on the cake. Given DA2's failure, ME2's failure, and Bioware's faliure to live up to it's name, It's going to be a pretty big choice whether or not I would want to give any of their future games/dlc's a shot. They've brought themselves so low in the past 2 years, it's ridiculous. If there was an award for how fast you can drag your reputation through the mud, they would have it.

Stop marketing your games (DA2, ME2) as RPG's and just call it what it is - an Action/Shooter game.

Needless to say, this DLC was horrible. It was really disappointing. You guys need to get a reality check. ME is either an RPG, or a Shooter. There can be no compromise. You either cater to the RPG fans or the Shooter fans. Right now you're catering to the shooter fans, and handing this game to your RPG fans calling it a cake when it's really a cookie. IGN, the people who regarded ME2 as 2010's game of the year, gave this DLC a 7.0 and even criticized it for it's linearity and combat oriented missions. Also keep in mind that it is less than an hour and a half in length, with the majority of it being combat. There wasn't much story in this at all.

I'm really dissapointed with Bioware's actions lately. They've really fallen from who they were before. However I'm not the one who will be at loss. The RPG fanbase you have forsaken will simply find another means of entertainment. We have other viable alternatives. If you don't want to play ball, you will simply lose your customers. Judging by the reaction to DA2, I'm sure ME3 will be where you start to see a more significant hit in sales.

Rest in peace Bioware of old. I will indeed miss you.

-Polite

I agree with your review. While I do enjoy the off balanced ME2 towards shooter mechanics, this DLC was a shooter with 95:5 ratio of shooter to RPG elements (just a figure). The dlc is too linear and the combat can be boring at times. Midway through the dlc, I felt like just running away to the Normandy even before completing the whole thing. The only saving grace of this weak DLC were the talks with Harbinger (Collector General in case you do this before destroying Collectors) and with Admiral Hackett.
BTW, why is Dr. Kenson's face model is so bad? Has she begun to turn into a husk or what!

[Raith Mano]

I understand where you're coming from about the combat and how majority of the DLC was nothing but a shoot-out, and I too was disappointed with it- to a degree.

BioWare has a tough job ahead of them with Mass Effect 3, and this DLC was meant as a bridge between the two games. Unfortunately, because of this, BioWare had to point everyone towards the same conclusion at the end of the DLC. If some people had chosen to not blast the asteroid at the relay, or had been able to save the batarians, their would be multiple beginnings to ME3 strictly based on DLC. This would punish those who didn't buy the DLC, and Casey Hudson has said several times that their is no intention to punish gamers who don't buy the DLC. Therefore, we need a bit of a uniformed start to the game.

It is unfortunate that they covered up a small story with a lot of shooting to make Arrival longer and yeah, they should have added in more story, some teammate interactions, maybe a new weapon or two, but at the same time, BioWare had their work cut out for them, trying to keep a uniformed ending for the beginning of ME3, not punish people who don't buy DLC (no one should be forced to), and give a nice bridge right in to ME3 from ME2.

Now could you have killed all the batarians or at least saved some? Yeah. Could there have been more storyline given away, maybe something on the back story of the reapers or maybe the species who made the reapers? Yeah. Something like that could have been awesome; we had a reaper artifact in our possession! Or maybe even had recovered some proof of the reaper invasion/existence from the artifact and the research being done. Considering all the b.s. Shepards been given regarding the existence of repears, a bit of proof in his direction would be a great help.

In short, yeah, it should have had less shooting involved, given some more storyline, maybe even brought in a new character for ME3 (maybe you could save the doctor), but it didn't. It is what it is, and they had a bridge to build without much material. Could they have added in more? Maybe wet our appetites a bit more with giving us some juicy information? Sure. But once again, that may hurt those who don't buy it.

[tonnactus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...



That's where you make your mistake. Where did TIM say his first priority was in stopping the abduction of human colonies. ..

The whole point of the "suicide" mission was to stop the "unimportant" henchmens...

[TwistedComplex]

*GASP*

There's shooting... In a... SHOOTER GAME?!?!?!?!?

ALERT THE F***IN NAVY

Please. Complain about how the sky is blue next, i really want to hear your opinion

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 30 mars 2011 - 05:52 .

[esideras]

James2912 wrote...

games are getting dumber and dumber at least the blockbuster titles. because society seems to be getting dumber and dumber. Everybody wants instant satisfaction and RPGs are not about instant satisfaction. I have always thought of RPGs as more of a thinking man's video game, haha, Mass Effect is just following the same trend as every other big name title.

Because In a shooter you never have to think, yeeeah....
Go tell that to the e-sports teams.

[TwistedComplex]

James2912 wrote...

games are getting dumber and dumber at least the blockbuster titles. because society seems to be getting dumber and dumber. Everybody wants instant satisfaction and RPGs are not about instant satisfaction. I have always thought of RPGs as more of a thinking man's video game, haha, Mass Effect is just following the same trend as every other big name title. 

Yeah, cause it takes a lot of brain power to figure out "Bigger number means more damage! ME SO SMART!!"

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 30 mars 2011 - 06:14 .

[Mister Mida]

I always figured you were a borderline ME2 fanboy, Polite. Guess I was wrong.

[TwistedComplex]

shinobi602 wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

Yeah, I wanted a DLC where I could play dress-up and talk and talk. All this shooting was annoying.

Not really, just because we don't want one extreme doesn't mean we want the other.

Why not tread a middle path?

Arrival WAS a middle path. There was PLENTY of dialog with the Dr and Hackett and PLENTY of shooting in the base

RPG purists are just too blinded by idealism to see that

If you don't want shooting in a Mass Effect game, i think The Sims is more your speed

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 30 mars 2011 - 06:20 .

[ciaweth]

This is the same as claiming that LotSB is evidence that the ME franchise is now all about asari.

In a similar vein, this thread is now about pie.

[greed89]

no this Thread is now Diamonds!

[Whatever42]

tonnactus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

That's where you make your mistake. Where did TIM say his first priority was in stopping the abduction of human colonies. ..

The whole point of the "suicide" mission was to stop the "unimportant" henchmens...

The point was to take the fight to the Collectors for Shepard - find the missing colonists, rescue your crew.

For TIM, it was all about getting intel and technology. His motivations have been consistant. He didn't have you nuke the disabled Collector Vessel, he had you board it. He didn't have you blast the Collect Vessel on Horizon from orbit, you landed to see what they were up to.