251 réponses à ce sujet

[daguest]

i found the dlc fine.  And i found each of you just worth trashtalking. Do your boss ask for free job ? I guess not. They make a work, they sell it, i want it, i pay. No problems for me. 5$ for 1h, sounds good for me.
When you buy foods at your supermarket, do you trashtalk people because you want the food for free, because in some countries UN or whatever give foods to people for free ? I hope you don't...

Modifié par daguest, 19 novembre 2009 - 06:27 .

[Arsaidh]

sugasugaki wrote...

Of course, Bioware/EA has every right time maximize their monetary investment. Which is why I believe DLC that is lackluster shouldn't be purchased, which would show that mediocre DLC isn't a good ROI. They can try all they want, I hope they just fail so that they either a) make more compelling DLC or stick to focusing on an expansion.

Good luck with that. Who knows, it might be the first fan boycott in history to actually make a difference. Me, I won't hold my breath.

Another thing to keep in mind: The Money Guys you find in the upper echelons of software companies are convinced piracy is a huge drain on their potential revenue. Account-locked DLC is (theoretically) much harder to pirate, so the Money Guys really, really like the idea of selling you DLC instead of standalone expansions. Regardless of the actual reality of the situation (i.e. even obnoxious online authentication systems don't make a notable dent in piracy) DLC is the current darling of the Money Guys, and that isn't likely to change for a while.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Personally I'd like to see more substantial DLC, some more expensive stuff with a bit more meat on the bones. I'll still buy all of the DLC for Dragon Age because I love the game... which is ultimately what this kind of DLC is for. It's for people who just want ANY content they can get for the game.



I'm sure Bioware/EA loves people like me

[sugasugaki]

Arsaidh wrote...

Good luck with that. Who knows, it might be the first fan boycott in history to actually make a difference. Me, I won't hold my breath.

Another thing to keep in mind: The Money Guys you find in the upper echelons of software companies are convinced piracy is a huge drain on their potential revenue. Account-locked DLC is (theoretically) much harder to pirate, so the Money Guys really, really like the idea of selling you DLC instead of standalone expansions. Regardless of the actual reality of the situation (i.e. even obnoxious online authentication systems don't make a notable dent in piracy) DLC is the current darling of the Money Guys, and that isn't likely to change for a while.

It's not a boycott, it's just my choice as a consumer. I guess you think anything short of emptying your wallet out to EA is a boycott, whatever.

Piracy has little bearing on Bioware's approach to DLC, frankly. Aside from Shale, which is meant to deter piracy/used games market, this DLC is meant to be supplemental revenue from legitimate customers. They don't won't make money making DLC for the people that pirate, they make it off consumers that buy the content.

People also mistaken thinking that those who don't want to buy DLC do so because they're cheap. I could've bought DA for $28 new, legit, with the Shale DLC. I didn't out of wanting to support Bioware. As I said my gripe with the DLC is a quality issue--the DLC just sucks. GTAIV's DLC is an example of compelling DLC. New dialog, story, etc. A mini expansion if you will. Purposely leaving out armor  (Duncan, Cailan) and to include it in a future DLC is just making a buck off your consumers.

[sugasugaki]

Lowlander wrote...

The huge problem with this, is if it succeeds there is no incentive to do a proper expansion. It is a lot more lucrative to sell DLC fluff than build a real expansion.

This. If they make a higher gross from DLC at a higher profit margin, why would they even make expansions? If I were a big-wig I sure as heck wouldn't.

[Arsaidh]

Lowlander wrote...

daguest wrote...
When you buy foods at your supermarket, do you trashtalk people because you want the food for free, because in some countries UN or whatever give foods to people for free ? I hope you don't...

WTH does food have to do with this?

We have turned a bleak corner with DLC.

Contrast with NWN before DLC.  You got a complete and full game, then followed with  full 20-30 hour expansions for $20 each. When you bought the game you were happy becacue it was complete and when you got an expansion it was high value.

Now with DLC they go back and sell tidbits to go with the orignal campaign that amount to next to nothing beyond paying for more swords and armor to replay they same game again with. This is milking(nickle and dimeing) the fanbase and nothing more. Further it feels like most of should have been part of the game to begine with.

The huge problem with this, is if it succeeds there is no incentive to do a proper expansion. It is a lot more lucrative to sell DLC fluff than build a real expansion.

This kind of DLC is a massive step backward for the game consumer.

You don't think the 80+ hours of content in Dragon Age: Origins is a "complete and full game"? What, pray tell, would you consider "complete and full"?

Further, if you feel the DLC just gives you better items without adding to the story... why do you feel compelled to buy it? If you think Return to Ostagar will just be about Mega-Shiny Armor and the Sword of Hackmaster +12, why the squinking about the price point?

I promise you, there will be a "proper expansion" even if they make lots of money on DLC. Especially if they make lots of money on DLC. It's built right into the game: Didn't you notice that "Other Campaigns" button? Blizzard isn't about to cancel the next WoW expansion just because they're already making a hojillion dollars a month in subscription fees.

[Arsaidh]

sugasugaki wrote...

It's not a boycott, it's just my choice as a consumer. I guess you think anything short of emptying your wallet out to EA is a boycott, whatever.

Beat that strawman good and hard, Sugasugaki.

Piracy has little
bearing on Bioware's approach to DLC, frankly.

Wrong. You're not paying attention to the software industry if you really think their fears of piracy aren't related to the recent mania for DLC (and phone-home validation systems).

Aside from Shale, which is meant to deter piracy/used games market, this DLC is meant to be supplemental revenue from legitimate customers. They don't won't make money making DLC for the people that pirate, they make it off consumers that buy the content.

And what's wrong with that? Do you think it implictly immoral simply to want to make money?

As I said my gripe with the DLC is a quality issue--the DLC just sucks. GTAIV's DLC is an example of compelling DLC. New dialog, story, etc. A mini expansion if you will. Purposely leaving out armor  (Duncan, Cailan) and to include it in a future DLC is just making a buck off your consumers.

And that's a bad thing... why? Because it inconveniences you, who obviously think you were entitled to more for what you paid for the game? Does the lack of any equipment, from any piece of DLC, result in a crippled, broken, or un-fun experience?

If BioWare were selling a three-wheeled car and then charging an extra 20% for the fourth wheel, yes, I'd agree that they were ripping off the fans. But the core game has plenty of content on its own. Your complaints about "making a buck of your consumers" (as if that were a bad thing!) is just an overblown sense of entitlement.

[Arsaidh]

Lowlander wrote...

It should be blatantly obvious that it is a fools errand to pay any real cash just to add Hackmaster +12.  Selling weapons and armor for a single player game is scummy at best.

So why whine? They made a product. You aren't interested in it. Why the indignation and fear that others will like it?

Modifié par Arsaidh, 19 novembre 2009 - 06:59 .

[Akka le Vil]

Arsaidh wrote...

Lowlander wrote...

It should be blatantly obvious that it is a fools errand to pay any real cash just to add Hackmaster +12.  Selling weapons and armor for a single player game is scummy at best.

So why whine? They made a product. You aren't interested in it. Why the indignation and fear that others will like it?

Are you THAT dense ?
Because if others like it, it means that it'll be profitable, and if it's profitable to make crap and sell it high... what will become of the good quality product at a decent price ?

I can't believe some people are stupid enough to be able to NOT get it...

[sugasugaki]

Arsaidh wrote...

If BioWare were selling a three-wheeled car and then charging an extra 20% for the fourth wheel, yes, I'd agree that they were ripping off the fans. But the core game has plenty of content on its own. Your complaints about "making a buck of your consumers" (as if that were a bad thing!) is just an overblown sense of entitlement.

And your belief that any dissenting viewpoint is having a sense of entitlement is just showing an overblown sense of obligation to Bioware. I'm entitled to my beliefs, believe it or not. You may think this is meant to be the "I love Bioware and everything they do" forum, but unfortauntely for you it is not. If I'm "whining" (the king of fanboy ad hominems), then I don't see how your "whining" about "whining" is any more morally superior. Who said I'm changing the world with my posts? I'm simply stating opinion. That's what community forums tend to have, opinions. The fact that you think it's something else isn't my problem. And if crap DLC is meant to be the fiscal savior of PC gaming, then PC gaming is dead.

Even if you think Bioware made the Isetta or RPGs you'd insist it'd be a four-wheeled cruiser anyways.

Modifié par sugasugaki, 19 novembre 2009 - 07:21 .

[EncasedMeats]

DLC On The Disc wrote...

I'm not opposed to DLC. I am opposed to bad DLC like Warden's Keep, and strongly opposed to in-game advertisements for DLC.

Being against bad DLC is like being against bad games in general. Of course, no one is for bad games but that's what the Internets is for, to learn what is and is not worth buying.

As far as being opposed to in-game advertising, that's all well and good (it is immersion-breaking, to some extent), but I hope you're willing to pay more for games up front. At least, that's the only realistic alternative I can see.

[romankalik]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Because if others like it, it means that it'll be profitable, and if it's profitable to make crap and sell it high... what will become of the good quality product at a decent price ?

Not every DLC is suitable for every person. Me, I want to see plot, dialogue, characters that aren't flat, that sort of thing.

Others may appreciate a dungeon delve, which is also fun sometimes.

Others still, sadly, are willing to pay money for extra shiny loot. Now, I have no problem with special items if they come with fleshed-out content that leads up to them, but just the items themselves (Horse Armor, anyone?)... yeah. Making the horse armor magical and shiny doesn't make it any less that.

But let's face it, some are willing to buy even the last category, and that means revenue. Bioware seems keen on creating a great deal of DLC's for DA: O, so I'll reserve my judgement of the sales and content creation strategy for a while longer (IE, a few months at the very least) before I decide one way or another.

If I get about one DLC every two or three months that I like, that's good enough for me. I can live with there being content made that isn't directed specifically at me. I just won't buy those I don't think I'll like, and leave it at that. If most of them are crap and/or meant to serve the lowest common denominator, though, I'll consider it something of a failure.

[romankalik]

To add to my previous post, though - I've yet to see a DLC for DA:O that was only about an item, though some here seem to imply that this is the case without actually seeing anything of the sort.



Using an item one can gain in a DLC to advertise it is alright, even if it isn't quite directed at me, but rather at the more magpie-esque RPG gamer. As long as there's actual meat in a DLC, rather than just an item, I'm fine with it.

[sugasugaki]

EncasedMeats wrote...

Being against bad DLC is like being against bad games in general. Of
course, no one is for bad games but that's what the Internets is for,
to learn what is and is not worth buying.

As far as being opposed to in-game advertising, that's all well and good (it is immersion-breaking, to some extent), but I hope you're willing to pay more for games up front. At least, that's the only realistic alternative I can see.

Going off-topic a bit, but in some games in-game advertising actually adds to the experience. Seeing a Coca-cola vending machine instead of "Fizzy soda drink!" machine gives a game a more real-world ambiance. Only really works for games portraying our universe though. In-game ads in a game like DAO have no place. Forza 3 has a lot of Nissan advertising, but doesn't detract from the game at all.

And yes, I'm against bad DLC, not DLCs in general. The DLC doesn't even need to continue the main plot--it can have a interesting side-plot and be compelling imo. A DLC that simply uses an existing armor texture and itemizes it (aka Cailan's armor in Return to Ostagar) is not my idea of compelling DLC.

If a Shale type DLC emerges and costs $15, I'd seriously consider it. Till then I can wait for the inevitably DLC bundle pack.

[Rubarack]

That guy is standing on the deck of the Titanic shouting for more Icebergs. If the current system of gaming is unsustainable it's because publishers and developers have allowed costs to run rampant. His vision of the DLC laden future is correct only so far as people continue to go along with poor value offensive DLC, which sadly enough seems to be the case. His idea that it will fund titles such as Mirrors Edge is nothing other than sheer lunacy.



Innovation is dead, and gaming as we know it is just going to rot away. Unless companies can get their spiralling costs under control that is absolutely going to happen, and no amount of outrageously offensive and overpriced DLC will stop it. Supporting DLC will only cause it to propagate and ultimately this is likely to only cause even more fragmentation and damage to the market.

[NetBeansAndJava]

I enjoy DLC, so long as they aren't above $10. Shale is a tad expensive for what he is... thankfully he comes free w/ new games.



I do, however, want/expect a full blown expansion.

[GlobularFoody]

This topic is quickly becoming boring and I know that EA people are behind it. Trying to justifying 45 minutes of gametime for $7 is outrageous, for content that should've been in the retail package no less. EA, this game costs $55-65 dollars ALREADY and you sold a ton of copies in just the first few weeks. I couldn't care less about publisher's attempts to "monetize" games after release BECAUSE THE GAMES AREN"T FREE!!!

[Dauphin2]

Lowlander wrote...
Contrast with NWN before DLC.  You got a complete and full game, then followed with  full 20-30 hour expansions for $20 each. When you bought the game you were happy because it was complete and when you got an expansion it was high value.

What you seem to forget about these 20-30 hour expansions is, they were just recycled *everything*.  same enemies, same textures, same environment, same sound effects, only thing new is a new design for the map. If you like 20-30 hours of regurgitated crap, be my guest.

But things like Warden's keep, and Stone Prisoner, contained a very high ratio of actually new content. And that is what makes them superior to your *expansions* and worth their price (ok maybe a slightly lower price $5 is about right).

[Pseudo310]

Arsaidh wrote...

Good luck with that. Who knows, it might be the first fan boycott in history to actually make a difference. Me, I won't hold my breath.

Seriously. Pretty much all of the video game "boycotts" I've seen have resulted in the boycotters just buying the game/expansion/DLC anyway so they had something to gripe about.

[sugasugaki]

Pseudo310 wrote...

Seriously. Pretty much all of the video game "boycotts" I've seen have resulted in the boycotters just buying the game/expansion/DLC anyway so they had something to gripe about.

Wow, so you have personal boycott friends, or are you just completely making things up? I haven't bought any DLC, thanks. And the difference can be that if I buy the next expansion/game, it'll be used, cheaper, and not making any money for Bioware.