251 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolff Laarcen]

Why deny yourself whatever enjoyment there is to be had from playing it? Dont boycott it, just [don't accept life without it] or buy used.



EDIT: Edited inappropriate content.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 19 novembre 2009 - 09:27 .

[Arsaidh]

Pseudo310 wrote...

Arsaidh wrote...

Good luck with that. Who knows, it might be the first fan boycott in history to actually make a difference. Me, I won't hold my breath.

Seriously. Pretty much all of the video game "boycotts" I've seen have resulted in the boycotters just buying the game/expansion/DLC anyway so they had something to gripe about.

Heh heh. Yeah. Remember the smashing success of the Left 4 Dead 2 boycott? Remember how all the nerd-raging on YouTube and Facebook convinced Valve to cancel L4D2 and instead release all the content, with its upgraded AI, plus all-new voice acting and art assets, as a free expansion for the first L4D? And then Fox retroactively un-cancelled Firefly and gave us six more seasons of awesome all at once, including that awesome Mal/Jayne sex scene all of us* have been fantasizing about? And remember how there was finally world peace, and everybody got a pony and an ice cream cake?

* Well, some of us. A few of us, anyway. Okay, basically just me. (>_<)

Modifié par Arsaidh, 19 novembre 2009 - 08:52 .

[Pseudo310]

sugasugaki wrote...

Wow, so you have personal boycott friends, or are you just completely making things up?

http://kotaku.com/54...ers-are-playing

[romankalik]

I have to agree with Lowlander on this one - SoU and HotU not only added new content, great plotlines and the like... they also made use of what the core NWN had in a much better way. SoU made the core NWN look like a silly hack-n'-slasher with a toolkit attached to it when one compared the two.

[X106]

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

Screw EA, Bioware should partner with Square Enix:P

Wouldn't that be the day

[romankalik]

Pseudo310 wrote...

sugasugaki wrote...

Wow, so you have personal boycott friends, or are you just completely making things up?

http://kotaku.com/54...ers-are-playing

Indeed. This, and the L4D2 boycott were both highly amusing, somewhat depressing, and very, very predictable.

[Zem_]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Are you THAT dense ?
Because if others like it, it means that it'll be profitable, and if it's profitable to make crap and sell it high... what will become of the good quality product at a decent price ?

If it's profitable then it is, by definition, a "decent price".  Not for you, perhaps, but you can't please everyone now, can you?

[gurugeorge]

Zem_ wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

Are you THAT dense ?
Because if others like it, it means that it'll be profitable, and if it's profitable to make crap and sell it high... what will become of the good quality product at a decent price ?

If it's profitable then it is, by definition, a "decent price".  Not for you, perhaps, but you can't please everyone now, can you?

Exactly - if you find it worth the price, you find it worth the price, if you don't, you don't.  End of story.

[the_one_54321]

X106 wrote...

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

Screw EA, Bioware should partner with Square Enix:P

Wouldn't that be the day

i think i could die happy on a day like that.

[Arsaidh]

sugasugaki wrote...

And your belief that any dissenting viewpoint is having a sense of entitlement is just showing an overblown sense of obligation to Bioware. I'm entitled to my beliefs, believe it or not. You may think this is meant to be the "I love Bioware and everything they do" forum, but unfortauntely for you it is not. If I'm "whining" (the king of fanboy ad hominems), then I don't see how your "whining" about "whining" is any more morally superior. Who said I'm changing the world with my posts? I'm simply stating opinion. That's what community forums tend to have, opinions. The fact that you think it's something else isn't my problem. And if crap DLC is meant to be the fiscal savior of PC gaming, then PC gaming is dead.

Even if you think Bioware made the Isetta or RPGs you'd insist it'd be a four-wheeled cruiser anyways.

No, I don't believe any dissenting viewpoint represents a sense of entitlement. Just yours, specifically, and those like yours. I have no sense of obligation to BioWare— I like their games,* for the most part, but I also like having cash in my wallet. My problem is this: All opinions are not created equal. Yours are ill-formed, and based on premises that are factually incorrect.

You may argue Warden's Keep isn't worth 7 dollars, but, sadly, the real world disagreed. Things are worth what the market will pay for them, and the market was willing to pay $7 for Warden's Keep.

You might argue that X or Y DLC isn't of sufficient quality to justify a purchase. Again, the market disagreed with you.

You could also argue that X or Y DLC should have been included with the game, and thus it is unfair to sell it as DLC. You're wrong there, too. The game in the box is what you get for your initial cash layout. That's it. Nobody owes you anything beyond that. If EA and BioWare want to leverage Dragon Age: Origins as a platform for selling further content, they're well within their rights to do so. If they'd sold you a demonstrably incomplete game, you might have grounds to complain... but DA: O is a zogging huge game already. I have yet to see a persuasive argument that any piece of DLC is "necessary" to enjoy the core game.

Let me try to de-escalate this a bit: You're obviously an intelligent and articulate person. I sympathize with your position. Really, I do. Still... I'd guess you're in your late 20s, maybe early 30s. Am I right? I also fondly remember the days when DLC was almost invariably free, and ad campaigns for electronic games didn't treat us like hormone-drenched adolescents (even if we probably were). But the software industry has changed since then, for economic and technological reasons too numerous and too complex to detail here. The climate you're using to measure DA:O's DLC is gone, probably for good. The cheese has moved, and it's not because developers are evil greedy jerks, or because gamers are stupid veal calves who will buy anything.

* Although KotOR2 beat the ever-lovin' pants off of KotOR1, and that was Obsidian, not BioWare.

[SheffSteel]

Judging by the poll results I think most opposition to this is from people who just want to see larger more traditional expansion packs, and are concerned that buying this small stuff is going to prevent Bioware from ever being motivated to produce that old-school stuff.

Realistically speaking, I think the nearest that those people will get to want they want is actually going to be a compilation disk (or download bundle) containing all the DLC that's been released up to that point. However, that will be vulnerable to piracy and so will likely only be released after EA judges that sales are really slowing down.

Also, what Arsaidh said.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 19 novembre 2009 - 09:17 .

[Arsaidh]

SheffSteel wrote...

Judging by the poll results I think most opposition to this is from people who just want to see larger more traditional expansion packs, and are concerned that buying this small stuff is going to prevent Bioware from ever being motivated to produce that old-school stuff.

Realistically speaking, I think the nearest that those people will get to want they want is actually going to be a compilation disk (or download bundle) containing all the DLC that's been released up to that point. However, that will be vulnerable to piracy and so will likely only be released after EA judges that sales are really slowing down.

I'm not sure the "more DLC means no expansion" argument holds water. Certainly BioWare has a limited number of labor-hours to invest in future content (Oh, merciless tapdancing Cthulhu, how I cringe to hear myself using corp-speak!) but strong DLC sales also give BioWare more leverage when arguing for a full-sized expansion. "Just look at the numbers on our last three pieces of DLC! An expansion is gold, I tells ya! Pure gold!"

The gripping hand is nobody but BioWare and EA know what criteria they will use to determine how much and how long to continue supporting DA:O... but I suspect making lots of money on the property can only be a good thing when talking about expansions and sequels.

Also, what Arsaidh said.

Thanks!

[KalDurenik]

DLC vs Expansions



What is better for the gamers?



Why would anyone want to pay more for less. And by more for less i meant that a DLC will have Less content, new things, new features, creatures, quests, companions, quality and length then a expansion. There is hardly any price for them to make a new DLC because of the things mentioned. And the more the DLC sell the less chance there is for a expansion. Why make a expansion that required LOTS of time and LOTS of money to make new features, creatures, textures, ideas. When you can simply get 5-10 people and release a DLC every 2-4 weeks for 5-15$.



You still think DLC is better because you can pick your content?

Well Lets say they release 20 DLC for a average of 10$. And lets say you buy 10 of them! Congrats you have just spend 100$ for max 10 hours of quests with no new features, textures or ideas.



While if you buy a expansion there need to be a higher quality, length and they will need to make new features, textures and creatures. And for what? 30-60$ you will get 20-30hours of game time?



When one see it like this how can one ever support DLC?



RIP gaming... Soon we wont be able to buy complete games and just chapters...

[romankalik]

Arsaidh wrote...

Also, what Arsaidh said.

Thanks!

Allow me to add my support - well said and well argued, Arsaidh. Well done.

[addiction21]

KalDurenik wrote...

DLC vs Expansions

What is better for the gamers?

Why would anyone want to pay more for less. And by more for less i meant that a DLC will have Less content, new things, new features, creatures, quests, companions, quality and length then a expansion. There is hardly any price for them to make a new DLC because of the things mentioned. And the more the DLC sell the less chance there is for a expansion. Why make a expansion that required LOTS of time and LOTS of money to make new features, creatures, textures, ideas. When you can simply get 5-10 people and release a DLC every 2-4 weeks for 5-15$.

You still think DLC is better because you can pick your content?
Well Lets say they release 20 DLC for a average of 10$. And lets say you buy 10 of them! Congrats you have just spend 100$ for max 10 hours of quests with no new features, textures or ideas.

While if you buy a expansion there need to be a higher quality, length and they will need to make new features, textures and creatures. And for what? 30-60$ you will get 20-30hours of game time?

When one see it like this how can one ever support DLC?

RIP gaming... Soon we wont be able to buy complete games and just chapters...

I too like to include fictitious numbers to make my arguements. Do you also like waffles? If so a/s/l

[KalDurenik]

True but they did say WK was 4-6 hours of content. People are completing it in 20min. They said the new one with a EPIC new recolored set and retextured area will have a entire 1 hour of content... In the end you will pay more for less. Unless they decide to take a 180 spin and make 10 hour DLC you will pay more.

[thinker029]

1. I have this odd idea that DLC that costs 1/10th of the total game should have 1/10th the content of the total game. Until I see this in practice, I'm probably not going to buy any.



2. Having to buy points in bundles of 400, and then having DLC cost 560 points is not enticing. I understand that you'll always want customers to have points left over, seemingly wasted, to encourage future purchases, but for this reason I have little desire to make the first purchase.



The game is great, and very entertaining, but I'm not going to jump all over these tiny little add-ons drooling and salivating for more.

[romankalik]

KalDurenik wrote...

Why would anyone want to pay more for less. And by more for less i meant that a DLC will have Less content, new things, new features, creatures, quests, companions, quality and length then a expansion. There is hardly any price for them to make a new DLC because of the things mentioned. And the more the DLC sell the less chance there is for a expansion. Why make a expansion that required LOTS of time and LOTS of money to make new features, creatures, textures, ideas. When you can simply get 5-10 people and release a DLC every 2-4 weeks for 5-15$.

Your numbers are unrealistic. Firstly, you can't get 5-10 people to develop DLC's. The voice actors and QA team alone make certain of that. Secondly, costs vary based on actual content, as does the time it takes to develop content and get it ready for distribution. Your estimates are a bit unrealistic. Furthermore, like Arsaidh, I've yet to understand the whole "DLC's mean less expansions" argument. DLC's and expansions can be developed in parallel, and the success of the DLC's can easily fund and justify an expansion all that easier.

KalDurenik wrote...

Well Lets say they release 20 DLC for a average of 10$. And lets say you buy 10 of them! Congrats you have just spend 100$ for max 10 hours of quests with no new features, textures or ideas.

The numbers, along with the assumptions, are fictional. DLC's can and should have new features, new ideas, new textures, and so on. Them being of a smaller scope does not mean that they are inherently less original - what it does mean is that they're less likely to share a continuous plotline. And even then, there's always the option of selling modules in continuous episodes.

KalDurenik wrote...

RIP gaming... Soon we wont be able to buy complete games and just chapters...

Yes, because Dragon Age was an incomplete game, right? *sigh*

[a.painter]

i was a huge fan of BG, BG2, Torment, IWD, IWD2, NWN, NWN2, and have enjoyed playing Dragon Age....being a older gamer i'm not a huge fan of DLC, since i purchased all the expansions i could for the previous games........will i buy the DLC? More than likely.........wouldn't mind seeing it as a expansion disc though.

[romankalik]

thinker029 wrote...
2. Having to buy points in bundles of 400, and then having DLC cost 560 points is not enticing. I understand that you'll always want customers to have points left over, seemingly wasted, to encourage future purchases, but for this reason I have little desire to make the first purchase.

Your 2nd option when buying Bioware points is the $7's worth, which is 560 points.

[krabman]

Personally downloadable content is fine and dandy as long as the original game is complete without it. I judge this game to be that. I do absolutely hate that they put some guy in my camp hawking it. I already paid my money and dont want advertisements in my game. EVER. Personally if they did much of the same I would stop playing unless it could be removed with a mod. I get enough people trying to sell me every minute of the day, one of the reasons I game is to get away from it. I still play older racing games because the new ones are chock full of advertisements and I would rather not game than look at it. I am not alone in this either. In the end I think they can offer the content at the front menu in the downloadable content menu and those that want it can browse it and people like me can skip it. I dont claim to know the right business model is but one that chases off existing core customers that have bought nearly every game you made is probably not it.

[KalDurenik]

True my numbers might not even be close to real. But the fact is they wont make a DLC that is 5 hours long and it add a combat log and a completly new feature allowing you to swim and jump! All these things (taking it from the DLC they have made so far and just told us about (including ME)). You will endup paying more for less. And why would people have a smile on their face and say "**** yes paying more for less is good"



In the end expansions are better for the gamers but worse for the devs. And DLC is better for the Devs and worse for the players.

[ken52682]

The problem I have with DLC is the price. I mean, the whole game costed me 50 bucks on the PC and provides 120 hours of entertainment, while I finished shale's quest in about 2 hours. That means the Shale add-on should really be only worth 83 cents(50 x (2/120)).

[KalDurenik]

If they are going to go DLC (hey they will do it even if we whine untill the end of times) i would suggest a "Pay what you think its worth" With a minium of 1.50$ (so they don't go - from the transaction) Some people will pay minium and some might even go higher. But its most likely not going to happen. But hey it would be intresting to see never the less.