71 réponses à ce sujet

[Oreowen]

So i gotta ask. i just finished a play through of Origins and Awakening, and ive beated Dragon Age 2 already.
i really just wanted to play the story from beginning to (current) end.

Awakening Anders was an apostate smart-ass mage recruited into the Grey Wardens by the commander to save his arse from the Templars. Justice was a spirit of Justice (duh) who inhabbited Kristoff's dead body when the Baroness had her little Fade Hissyfit and stuck around to help out and deliver JUSTICE! (once again, duh)

so i dunno if i just wasnt paying attention when i played DA2 the first time through (before i went back to awakening to relearn some characters and stories) but when did Anders and Justice do the little Fusion Ha Dance? (yeah, i just made a Dragon Ball Z reference.)

after beating awakening it was "Anders left the grey wardens, and then came back" and "Justice said "i know what i must do" and his body went limp as if dead"

and then i meet Anders and its "oh hai there Hawke, im Anders. im serious. and i have a spirit of Justice in my body. but he's a little screwed up. ok he's a lot screwed up. i said he could live in my body. but i broke him"

id really like to know the story behind this. what happened between Awakening and DA2 where Anders and Justice said "alright. we shall do the Fusion Ha Dance so we can free the mages."

How did they come to this decision? Did Anders ask Justice for Help in freeing the mages? did Justice ask Anders to live in his body because Kristoff was.... well a corpse? did Justice OFFER to join with Anders to free the mages? (which would sound demonic, to offer to join his body to achieve his goal? PLOT TWISTER!) who was helping who, who was sacrificing for who?

like i said, i am about to start a second play through to get better understanding of the Story, so maybe i'll pick it up on my own. but if anyone knows what happened between those two fine characters, id love to know

[Mindr]

I'm afraid that the answer to that question will probably cost us 10 bucks.

[Camilladilla]

Click here for your answers!

[supakillaii]

Anders and Justice became/were friends, something happened to Justice's dead body I presume, so Anders agreed to take him in, but his idea of Freeing the Mages and the Magisters' Oppression transformed Justice into Vengance.

That's about the best I can remember.

[Mnemnosyne]

The Anders problem is the timeline really doesn't add up for him. If it took roughly a year to end the Blight, which we've heard, and Hawke has been in Kirkwall for a year, then the events of Amaranthine really should be happening roughly at the same time as Act I.

[supakillaii]

No, Amaranthine took place about 6 months after the EotB

[Corto81]

Koyasha wrote...

The Anders problem is the timeline really doesn't add up for him. If it took roughly a year to end the Blight, which we've heard, and Hawke has been in Kirkwall for a year, then the events of Amaranthine really should be happening roughly at the same time as Act I.

Yep, that's what I thought this thread was about.

The timeline just seems to be WAY off here (with Anders in Kirkwall... and he's apparently been there for  a while when you meet him).

[Deztyn]

As others have said, the timeline is beyond awful.

Not just for Anders, but also Sandal and Cullen.

[b0ksah]

Yup it's all magical ... 

Modifié par b0ksah, 30 mars 2011 - 09:46 .

[Ealos]

supakillaii wrote...

No, Amaranthine took place about 6 months after the EotB

Which is about a year and a half after Hawke makes it out of Lothering - and thus, assuming that Act I starts immediately after leaving the smugglers/merchants, potentially after Hawke meets Anders. I don't mind the idea that a bit of time has passed after that year though. It can work.


Mind you, I would like to know if it's supposed to be my Warden-Commander who told him to get rid of Ser Pounce-a-lot. I mean, I was the one who gave him to Anders! And who's going to turn down a cat who can resurrect people in battle? Why not say Anders no longer likes the idea (Justice didn't get the concept of pets, after all), or something.

Modifié par Ealos, 30 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[wikkedjoker]

This is my problem with it, Justice want to help the Mage's, but what about justice for everyone the Mage's hurt or wrong, in his and Anders little FREE MEH PEOPLES!!! Stupidity?

[Deztyn]

Which is why I like to say it's primarily bias and not anger that screws up Justice.

[The Angry One]

wikkedjoker wrote...

This is my problem with it, Justice want to help the Mage's, but what about justice for everyone the Mage's hurt or wrong, in his and Anders little FREE MEH PEOPLES!!! Stupidity?

That's why Justice became Vengeance. He doesn't care about justice anymore, he wants retribution for the mages.
He's been corrupted by his own desires, and probably is closer to a rage demon now.

[errant_knight]

supakillaii wrote...

No, Amaranthine took place about 6 months after the EotB

It has to be more than six months. If Alistair and the warden marry, they do it six months after the coronation, and then tour Ferelden. Then Awakening happens, followed by the aftermath when Anders leaves then returns. To me that puts Awakening at least 8 months to a year after the coronation. Awakening could take 6 months to a year, depending on how long you think it takes to improve a castle. After that, Anders leaves for a while and returns. That could be any amount of time, but let's say 6 months to a year, just to pick something. That would mean that Vengence was created sometime between approx. 2 to 3 years after the end of the blight.

But then you have to consider when Anders meets Hawke. He/she's done the year of servitude, and I believe that we know the blight is over early in Act one. The next jump is 3 years later, putting Act two as about four years after the blight. The only way that the timeline works if Hawke meets Anders early in Act one is if some time has actually passed between the end of servitude and when we meet Varric. It's not defined, so some time could have passed there, meaning that it could still fit in the 2 to 3 year time frame.

There's some major timeline wonkiness in Awakening, though, so some handwaving exists. Not everything we've been told matches up all that well.

Modifié par errant_knight, 30 mars 2011 - 06:45 .

[Deztyn]

Oghren says that he's been on the surface a year and a half, so I'm willing to go with that number. Devs have already said the ending slides are rumours. I'm more concerned with the references we see in dialogue, and what we can infer from actual events.

2-3 years after the Blight until recruiting Anders just doesn't work.The blight ends during Hawke's year of servitude. That's spelled out clearly. Varric says he meets Hawke after her first year in Kirkwall. We can try to fanwank that into meaning one year, eleven months and twenty nine days after arriving in Kirkwall and it still wouldn't work unless we try to place the escape from Lothering at the end of the Blight.

Which would create a whole new set of continuity problems.

And then there's still Sandal being in Witch Hunt and in Kirkwall. <_<

Modifié par Deztyn, 30 mars 2011 - 10:04 .

[errant_knight]

A year and a half just doesn't make sense for everything that happened. I'm more likely to accept that the timeline is hopelessly bollocksed than that they gathered armies, fought a civil war, had a coronation, a possible marriage, and fought off a second invasion while rebuilding a castle all in a year and half. Saying that the slides are rumor is just a handwave so they don't have to pay attention, I'd say. I mean, how is a royal tour a rumor? It either happened or it didn't. Anders either left the wardens for a while, or he didn't. I may have to abandon the 'canon' timeline altogether as it's becoming ridiculous. I had to do that with Alistair's age, 'cause that guy just doesn't look or sound like he's 20 or 21. I can ignore this too.

Modifié par errant_knight, 30 mars 2011 - 11:41 .

[Deztyn]

Well at least the second invasion can be after the year and half! That's something.

I was trying to be nice about the epilogue slides. They're not going to be followed unless the writers want to follow them. So far they don't and nothing in them has actually happened.

And the timeline is hopeless. I could accept that like a good fangirl and pretend that there was time for Anders to grow a social conscience, merge with Justice, go to Kirkwall, start a clinic and become known and respected among the refugees before meeting Hawke. or I could Nerd Rage. In this matter I've chosen Nerd Rage.

Modifié par Deztyn, 31 mars 2011 - 12:06 .

[Corwyn]

Not that this gives them a complete blank slate but the year in Kirkwall probably isn't exactly a year more likely a year and a few months not to mention the journey there is implied to have taken some time. Flemeth got them past the darkspawn but they still get to the port and from there get a boat we don't know how long they waited it's implied that lots of people were fleeing it could have taken time to even start the voyage.

That said yeah the timeline seems a little off maybe a Wizard did it.

[errant_knight]

Yeah.... While you can play Origins in any quest order, it's set up to do Orzammar last, and Oghren doesn't come to the surface until you'ce finished it (in principle.) After that there's just Denerim, which could tale place in a few weeks, and the final battle which would be approximately a week to Redcliffe and a week to get back. This means that most of Oghren's 'year and a half' would take place after the end of the blight plus Awakening, so.... I think 2 to 3 years after the end of the blight is still in the ballpark. In fact, 2 years barely gives Anders enough time to get to Kirkwall after the end of Awakening and makes Awakening take only 6 months at most. 2 i/2 to 3 seems more likely. Maybe this isn't so bollocksed after all.

Modifié par errant_knight, 31 mars 2011 - 12:38 .

[TJPags]

errant_knight wrote...

Yeah.... While you can play Origins in any quest order, it's set up to do Orzammar last, and Oghren doesn't come to the surface until you'ce finished it (in principle.) After that there's just Denerim, which could tale place in a few weeks, and the final battle which would be approximately a week to Redcliffe and a week to get back. This means that most of Oghren's 'year and a half' would take place after the end of the blight plus Awakening, so.... I think 2 to 3 years after the end of the blight is still in the ballpark. In fact, 2 years barely gives Anders enough time to get to Kirkwall after the end of Awakening and makes Awakening take only 6 months at most. 2 i/2 to 3 seems more likely. Maybe this isn't so bollocksed after all.

The problem, though, is that Anders is already in Kirkwall, and people know about him, pretty early in Act 1.  Which is a year after Hawke gets to Kirkwall.  Which is, I'm thinking, about 6 months after DA2 starts.

So, we have DA2 starting with Lothering's destruction.  Let's say 6 months to Kirkwall.  Then a year working off the entry fee.  So, we're 18 months in.

Meanwhile, Origins takes a year.  Awakening takes place 6 months later.  So, 18 months, right?

The same 18 months, no?

So, right at the end of Awakening, right after you kill you Mother, Anders is . . .in Kikwall?  Having done the possession thing with Justice?  And having established himself down in Darktown?  With no travel time?

I just don't get how the timeline is supposed to work.

[errant_knight]

We don't know that it's a year, only that it's more than a year since they arrived, and that the end of the game is ten years after Hawke arrives. It's long enough after the year of servitude that they feel like they're floundering and should have gotten further, but not so long that anyone is speaking of multiple years of failure.

Modifié par errant_knight, 31 mars 2011 - 01:03 .

[TJPags]

errant_knight wrote...

We don't know that it's a year, only that it's more than a year since they arrived, and that the end of the game is ten years after Hawke arrives. It's long enough after the year of servitude that they feel like they're floundering and should have gotten further, but not so long that anyone is speaking of multiple years of failure.

Are you talking about additional time between the end of the year of servitude and the start of Act 1?

That's possible, I suppose, but how long could that be?

[Blacklash93]

Mindr wrote...

I'm afraid that the answer to that question will probably cost us 10 bucks.

Or 10 bucks for one person and 5 minutes of time spent on YouTube for everyone else.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mars 2011 - 01:11 .

[Rifneno]

Deztyn wrote...

Which is why I like to say it's primarily bias and not anger that screws up Justice.

Justice makes it pretty clear in Awakening that he is wholeheartedly against the way mages are treated.  While much of the story doesn't make sense when you factor in DAO because they clearly came up with this story after DAO was done, the part about Justice's stance on templars is indeed backed up in DAA.  If you have Anders and Justice in the party they'll have a banter where Justice is half perplexed and half angered by the fact Anders isn't fighting back against the templars as he feels he should.

[Chuvvy]

Deztyn wrote...

Oghren says that he's been on the surface a year and a half, so I'm willing to go with that number. Devs have already said the ending slides are rumours. I'm more concerned with the references we see in dialogue, and what we can infer from actual events.

2-3 years after the Blight until recruiting Anders just doesn't work.The blight ends during Hawke's year of servitude. That's spelled out clearly. Varric says he meets Hawke after her first year in Kirkwall. We can try to fanwank that into meaning one year, eleven months and twenty nine days after arriving in Kirkwall and it still wouldn't work unless we try to place the escape from Lothering at the end of the Blight.

Which would create a whole new set of continuity problems.

And then there's still Sandal being in Witch Hunt and in Kirkwall. <_<

Witch hunt takes place four years after DAO. So it happens during the time skip between act 2 and act 3.