72 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

LadyBri wrote...

So why is it that dwarves are so much more affected by the idol?

Dwarves are from the Stone.

They don't connect naturally to the Fade, but they're able to hear and sense lyrium. If you take Oghren to the mountain, he's the only one to notice that it's full of lyrium.

[Maria Caliban]

Bible Doctor wrote...

I was disappointed that we didn't get to learn more about it.

Seconded.

I hope Thedas does not become a land stuffed with never explained or explored plot devices.

Crocodiles wrote...

How did that small Idol produce huge sword, and still have a chunk left over?

It grew. Literally.

Crocodiles wrote...

Does Meredith have magic powers, cos I thought templars used lyrium to negate the flow of magic, and what she pulled off in the fight seems a lot like magic to me.

They don't use lyrium to negate the flow of magic. They have a spell that negates magic in an area, but so do regular mages.

[CarlSpackler]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bible Doctor wrote...

I was disappointed that we didn't get to learn more about it.

Seconded.

I hope Thedas does not become a land stuffed with never explained or explored plot devices.

Agreed.  I also like the notion of the song of the idol being the same song of the old gods mentioned in Awakening.  This is a plot thread I really want to see explored.  Of course given the parochial nature of DA2's story, exploring the plot of the idol and the old gods would likely have been out of place.

On a side note, while I'm in agreement that I want Bioware to explore some of these loose plot threads (Morrigan, Flemeth, the Idol, etc) I'm not sure if I ever want them to reveal the truth of the Black City or not.  One of the great defining pieces of Dragon Age Lore I think is the Chantry.  Are they wholly right?  Are they wholly wrong?  Almost certainly they are somewhere in between, but everybody drifts from one end of the spectrum to the other.  I rather like that.

[LadyBri]

wikkedjoker wrote...

Cant you let Verric keep it? If you can nothing seems to happen.

That's a good question - I have not chosen that option yet because I always give the shard to Sandal, but maybe I will and see what happens.  Although, I would hate to lose poor Varric somewhere down the road due to insanity;)

[Avissel]

If you let him keep it, Bianca gets 2 extra rune slots I believe. Dunno if it will have any last consequences for him.

[Herakleia]

supakillaii wrote...

Hawke's got plot armor, Sandal's special and Meredith's strong.

Or it could be that Hawke has been crazy all along, and that everything that happened in Kirkwall has been tainted by Hawke's unwittingly crazy perspective.  And you don't really know this up front because this is the perspective you are given.  This is my assumption in my second play through. 

[greyman33]

And here I thought Lyrium Idol was a reality singing competition for Ferledon mages...

Seriously though, I hope they do make more of this all than simple plot device. I have a feeling its singing must be connected to the old gods somehow.

Maybe the bones of the old gods petrify into lyrium over time or something. If Morrigan and her OGB theory are to be believed, the Old Gods souls never really die, just jump to a new body when their current one fails them. Maybe if they die of old age rather than 'beheaded by a Warden at the end of a Blight' they eventually wind up as piles of lyrium that can then be crafted into things like idols by ancient dwarf smiths?

And as far as consuming the body of the god, or whatever, maybe that is the real origin of the darkspawn. Darkspawn make new brood mothers by feeding dwarf and human females darkspawn meat, right? If some starving, desperate dwarf found the corpse of an old god, and ate it who's to say what would have happened. Maybe that act alone would be enough to start the corruption process and begin this whole Darkspawn-Old God cycle.

Another thing to ponder: Is the idol the source of the corrupted red lyrium veins around the primordial Thaig (ie, did it corrupt the whole area after it was left there), or was it crafted from pre-existing corrupted lyrium in the area?

[RebelAgainstSin]

I must've missed something in my two playthroughs. When did Sandal come in contact with the idol? Or Varric?

[The Angry One]

Herakleia wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

Hawke's got plot armor, Sandal's special and Meredith's strong.

Or it could be that Hawke has been crazy all along, and that everything that happened in Kirkwall has been tainted by Hawke's unwittingly crazy perspective.  And you don't really know this up front because this is the perspective you are given.  This is my assumption in my second play through. 

When Hawke touched the idol, s/he passed out.
That's right, the 6 subsequent years were all a dream. Hawke will wake up and find Orsino in the shower.

[LadyBri]

RebelAgainstSin wrote...

I must've missed something in my two playthroughs. When did Sandal come in contact with the idol? Or Varric?

In Act III, Varric's "Haunted" quest brings you all back to the mansion and at the end you discover a piece of the idol Bartrand had stashed away.  Immediately, Varric starts acting weird and wanting to keep the piece and Hawke can let him keep it or take it away for his own good.  If Hawke takes it, he/she brings it to Sandal who makes a rune out of it.

[LadyBri]

Maria Caliban wrote...

LadyBri wrote...

So why is it that dwarves are so much more affected by the idol?

Dwarves are from the Stone.

They don't connect naturally to the Fade, but they're able to hear and sense lyrium. If you take Oghren to the mountain, he's the only one to notice that it's full of lyrium.

That is a good point.  I guess I was more thinking of the magical effects of lyrium and being surprised that Bartrand and Varric were so much more affected.  I was more focused on their magical immunity than the lyrium itself, I guess, and how like you said dwarves can sense lyrium.

[Tainan7509]

Rifneno wrote...

Good time to voice a theory I've been mulling over for a bit.  First, some facts that lead me to this conclusion.

1.  Lyrium sings.  Dwarves and spirits at the least can hear it.
2.  The Mother rants about "the song" and how The Architect is such a bad bad man because his giving her sentience took away her ability to hear the song.
3.  Darkspawn tunnel through the earth looking for "Old Gods" that the Maker imprisoned there.
4.  Bartrand talks about the lyrium idol's song (not totally surprising since all lyrium sings) and that it was telling him to worship it.
5.  The hunger demon in the Primordial Thaig, if a demon is to be believed, claims that the rock wraiths there are dwarven spirits who are eating lyrium.
6.  Upon battling the rock wraiths, particularly ones called "Profane," you gain a codex entry.  It talks of a cryptic scrawling found in the Deep Roads in which an entity refering to itself "profane" says it "feasted upon the gods" in an act of desperation.

I don't know how exactly, but I think it's a reasonably safe assumption that lyrium is somehow divine.  I don't know which pantheon (the old elven gods, the Tevinter dragon gods, or even a completely forgotten set) but there's too much connecting lyrium with disembodied singing and deities.

On an unrelated note, something I've always wondered.  If lyrium is so dangerous to non-dwarves, how come we don't use it to make poison? 

Yeah this leads to one of my question is that did Meredith really die? or she became a statue?
If so then her entire body is pure lyrium i suppose?

[The Angry One]

Tainan7509 wrote...

Yeah this leads to one of my question is that did Meredith really die? or she became a statue?
If so then her entire body is pure lyrium i suppose?

Ohmigod that's how the Templars are able to rebel from the Chantry.
THEY'RE SNORTING MEREDITH.

[Lithuasil]

^ Explains a lot really D:

[Blacklash93]

"Feasting on the gods" in reference to lyrium is an interesting statement.

Is lyrium part of something bigger? Does it come from divine deities? It it part of them?

The only revered pantheon this can be connected to is the old gods (with current knowedge), if only because of the insanity-inducing singing (which the old gods are infamous for with the darkspawn) and the fact that they too dwell deep beneath the surface.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[Blacklash93]

greyman33 wrote...

And here I thought Lyrium Idol was a reality singing competition for Ferledon mages...

Seriously though, I hope they do make more of this all than simple plot device. I have a feeling its singing must be connected to the old gods somehow.

Maybe the bones of the old gods petrify into lyrium over time or something. If Morrigan and her OGB theory are to be believed, the Old Gods souls never really die, just jump to a new body when their current one fails them. Maybe if they die of old age rather than 'beheaded by a Warden at the end of a Blight' they eventually wind up as piles of lyrium that can then be crafted into things like idols by ancient dwarf smiths?

And as far as consuming the body of the god, or whatever, maybe that is the real origin of the darkspawn. Darkspawn make new brood mothers by feeding dwarf and human females darkspawn meat, right? If some starving, desperate dwarf found the corpse of an old god, and ate it who's to say what would have happened. Maybe that act alone would be enough to start the corruption process and begin this whole Darkspawn-Old God cycle.

Another thing to ponder: Is the idol the source of the corrupted red lyrium veins around the primordial Thaig (ie, did it corrupt the whole area after it was left there), or was it crafted from pre-existing corrupted lyrium in the area?

The Thaig and idol predate the Blights. There were no dead archdemons/old gods to take blood from or... eat.

And there's no evidence that the red lyrium is "corrupted". It's possible, but it could also be another type of lyrium or perhaps a purer form of it for all we know. Don't call it corrupted as if it's a fact.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mars 2011 - 02:10 .

[greyman33]

Blacklash93 wrote...


The Thaig and idol predate the Blights. There were no dead archdemons/old gods to take blood from or... eat.

And there's no evidence that the red lyrium is "corrupted". It could be another type of lyrium or perhaps a purer form of it for all we know. Don't call it corrupted as if it's a fact.

Okay, then, it's an idol, made of lyrium, which corrupts seemingly anyone who handles it for any signifigant length of time.

Also, I never said anything about Archdemons.  I said Old Gods.  Specifically, I said maybe eating the flesh of an Old God body (Old God, not Archdemon) is what led to the birth of the first darkspawn, not the first blight.

What I was saying it that just maybe, the connection to darkspawn and the Old Gods, the song that calls them to where the Old Gods sleep, has to do with the first proto-darkspawn having consumed the rotting flesh of an Old God body (one who's spirit presuming Morrigan is correct, would have gone on to a new, fit, host).

[Foolsfolly]

And there's no evidence that the red lyrium is "corrupted". It's possible, but it could also be another type of lyrium or perhaps a purer form of it for all we know. Don't call it corrupted as if it's a fact.

There's a few Corrupt Lyrium ingredients in Act 2/3. They're red.

[Blacklash93]

Foolsfolly wrote...

And there's no evidence that the red lyrium is "corrupted". It's possible, but it could also be another type of lyrium or perhaps a purer form of it for all we know. Don't call it corrupted as if it's a fact.

There's a few Corrupt Lyrium ingredients in Act 2/3. They're red.

So is the "raw lyrium" ingrediant.

Regular lyrium and corrupted lyrium look the same as resources.

Also, I never said anything about Archdemons.  I said Old Gods.  Specifically, I said maybe eating the flesh of an Old God body (Old God, not Archdemon) is what led to the birth of the first darkspawn, not the first blight.

What I was saying it that just maybe, the connection to darkspawn and the Old Gods, the song that calls them to where the Old Gods sleep, has to do with the first proto-darkspawn having consumed the rotting flesh of an Old God body (one who's spirit presuming Morrigan is correct, would have gone on to a new, fit, host).

The Old Gods are perfectly alive underground. Their soul is in their body.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mars 2011 - 02:25 .

[The Angry One]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

And there's no evidence that the red lyrium is "corrupted". It's possible, but it could also be another type of lyrium or perhaps a purer form of it for all we know. Don't call it corrupted as if it's a fact.

There's a few Corrupt Lyrium ingredients in Act 2/3. They're red.

So is the "raw lyrium" ingrediant.

They look the same.

Lyrium dust used to make potions in DA:O is also red.

[greyman33]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

And there's no evidence that the red lyrium is "corrupted". It's possible, but it could also be another type of lyrium or perhaps a purer form of it for all we know. Don't call it corrupted as if it's a fact.

There's a few Corrupt Lyrium ingredients in Act 2/3. They're red.

So is the "raw lyrium" ingrediant.

They look the same.

Also, I never said anything about Archdemons.  I said Old Gods.  Specifically, I said maybe eating the flesh of an Old God body (Old God, not Archdemon) is what led to the birth of the first darkspawn, not the first blight.

What I was saying it that just maybe, the connection to darkspawn and the Old Gods, the song that calls them to where the Old Gods sleep, has to do with the first proto-darkspawn having consumed the rotting flesh of an Old God body (one who's spirit presuming Morrigan is correct, would have gone on to a new, fit, host).

The Old Gods are perfectly alive underground. Their soul is in their body.

But you don't know they're immortal.  Rather, that their bodies are immortal.  Their physical bodies can certainly be killed, who's to say they can't die by other means as well?  Wouldn't stop their spirit from inhabiting anotehr body, much sa any other fade spirit, but it COULD mean they occasionally leave corpses, even if it's only one every couple millenia.

I'm not saying any of this is true, just raising the possability.

[Foolsfolly]

So is the "raw lyrium" ingrediant.

They look the same.

I know. But this red lyrium Idol of Vague Plot Evilness is also red. There has to be a connection.

[The Angry One]

Foolsfolly wrote...

So is the "raw lyrium" ingrediant.

They look the same.

I know. But this red lyrium Idol of Vague Plot Evilness is also red. There has to be a connection.

Well yeah, too much Lyrium is bad.
It's already said that Lyrium is poisonous and Sandal is believed to be "Lyrium-addled", the idol could simply be super-concentrated Lyrium.

[Blacklash93]

Foolsfolly wrote...

So is the "raw lyrium" ingrediant.

They look the same.

I know. But this red lyrium Idol of Vague Plot Evilness is also red. There has to be a connection.

I bet regular lyrium is also evil, too. You know, since it's also red.

Well yeah, too much Lyrium is bad.
It's already said that Lyrium is poisonous and Sandal is believed to be "Lyrium-addled", the idol could simply be super-concentrated Lyrium.

Most lyrium addled people suffer from extreme paranoia.

Like Meredith.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mars 2011 - 02:31 .

[Foolsfolly]

Regular lyrium's blue. It's all over the place in DA:O and all over the Deep Roads until you hit the Thaig.

Don't get hostile at me. It's color coded morality. Blue Lyrium's the normal kind and then we have a red idol that possesses people, raises ghosts, and later see it listed as Corrupted Lyrium.