72 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Regular lyrium's blue. It's all over the place in DA:O and all over the Deep Roads until you hit the Thaig.

Don't get hostile at me. It's color coded morality. Blue Lyrium's the normal kind and then we have a red idol that possesses people, raises ghosts, and later see it listed as Corrupted Lyrium.

I think the red lyrium being... red has to do with a connection to blood, personally. The first thing I thought when I saw the red lyrium was "blood veins".

Lyrium and blood can both fuel magic. There's some relation, for sure.

And I'm just saying don't invest too much thought over the color of a random, generic resource model.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mars 2011 - 02:38 .

[RebelAgainstSin]

LadyBri wrote...

RebelAgainstSin wrote...

I must've missed something in my two playthroughs. When did Sandal come in contact with the idol? Or Varric?

In Act III, Varric's "Haunted" quest brings you all back to the mansion and at the end you discover a piece of the idol Bartrand had stashed away.  Immediately, Varric starts acting weird and wanting to keep the piece and Hawke can let him keep it or take it away for his own good.  If Hawke takes it, he/she brings it to Sandal who makes a rune out of it.

Wow, I completely forgot to check in with all my companions in the beginning of every Act. I've missed that quest twice now.

[Talladarr]

If you'll recall from origins, most Lyrium is an iridescent blue, but the Lyrium in that Thaig was RED. Normal lyrium is BLUE, that lyrium was RED. I think that suggest that there's something wrong with that lyrium =3
I'd say that it's possible that lyrium was corrupted by Darkspawn

[supakillaii]

Or by whatever that was going on with the Idol.

[Darker_than_black]

Talladarr wrote...

If you'll recall from origins, most Lyrium is an iridescent blue, but the Lyrium in that Thaig was RED. Normal lyrium is BLUE, that lyrium was RED. I think that suggest that there's something wrong with that lyrium =3
I'd say that it's possible that lyrium was corrupted by Darkspawn

I think that is unlikely. Bartrand says that the Thaig you reach predates the first blight. You say you think Darkspawn corrupted the lyrium? Then why is there no corrupted lyrium in any other thaig we have seen in Origins?

Besides, if the lyrium was corrupted by the darkspawn taint, don't you think there would be other signs of corruption than just in the lyrium? Like all the Thaigs and Deep roads in Origins, The stolen throne and The Calling had? (the latter examples are books in case you didn't know)

Edit: Also once you reach the Thaig with your expedition, there are no more Darkspawn encounters if I remember correctly. Only Shades and Rock Wraiths (Profane).

Modifié par Darker_than_black, 31 mars 2011 - 12:16 .

[Talladarr]

I knew they were books, but I've never read them. And hey, I was just throwing it out there, it's conjecture and speculation, after all, you never know.Maybe the "First Blight" wasn't actually the first blight, and the Dwarves of that thaig ended up killing the first Archdemon, only to realize it doesn't like to stay dead, and in the end found some way to use Lyrium to trap the soul rather than using a Grey Warden to destroy it, then left and told no one.
Like I said. It's just conjecture.

[Poubo]

Talladarr wrote...

I knew they were books, but I've never read them. And hey, I was just throwing it out there, it's conjecture and speculation, after all, you never know.Maybe the "First Blight" wasn't actually the first blight, and the Dwarves of that thaig ended up killing the first Archdemon, only to realize it doesn't like to stay dead, and in the end found some way to use Lyrium to trap the soul rather than using a Grey Warden to destroy it, then left and told no one.
Like I said. It's just conjecture.

as far as i can recall, Darkspawn only appeared during the first blight and retreated to the deep roads after the arch demon had been killed.

However, i believe the dwarves had trapped the old gods years before. and we dont truly know how expansive the deep roads are. i mean, do they cover the entire world? what about the "deeper roads" which are under the current deep roads, how long have they been around?

i'm not entirely certain on the age of them but they certainly out date the tevinter imperium. and in the first book they say they taught humans how to speak and trade etc...?

Maric: "Do you speak the kings tongue?"
Dwarf: "We taught you how to speak the 'kings tongue'"

or something similar at least...

[Cutlass Jack]

I let Varric keep the shard and he was fine. And Bianca was better than fine. She got 3 extra rune slots out of it. Which turned her into an all elemental death machine of sexiness.

[supakillaii]

"Deeper roads"?

[SandiKay0]

I just keep thinking that whatever that is in that idol wants to be worshipped. And that explains to me why there is no Paragons in the Primeval Thaig. I can't remember where I read it, but I recall something about the Darkspawn being repelled by something in that thaig, and that was what I thought the Wardens were investigating. Perhaps, the Arcitect(sp?) is the allie(sp?) Nathaniel was talking about and he is repelled? Or perhaps the profane attack the Darkspawn keeping them away?

Idk, but it is to me aleast more than just a plot device. It is something that effects the Darkspawn too. I read somewhere that it had no darkspawn taint. I'm gonna have to look at the codex again see if I read it there.

[ModernMan2009]

The corrupted lyrium in the thaig is created from the rock wraiths eating the lyrium veins forcing it to become tainted and twisted, you see the red veins growing through the walls and columns. Lyrium is a substance created when the concentrated essence of the Fade passes through the Veil into the physical world. The vast deposits underground are probably from when the world of Thades was first created. The Idol is constructed from the corrupted lyrium after the first dwarves of the forgotten thaig began to eat the lyrium while still alive, the idol was crafted from the remains of one of the eaters. It is entirely possible that the thaig you uncover is Valdasine Thaig, see codex entry, it is forgotten because the dwarves struck the entire thaig from the shaperate records for their involvement with demons. More than likely there was some dwarf of note in that thaig that made a deal with a demon for more power and started the decline of the thaig similar to what bloodmages have done in the human world.
The corrupted lyrium has no will itself it is simply amplifies the desires and passions of those that come in contact with it. When Bartrand saw it and held it his greed was amplified and he betrayed his brother and the player. When Meridith has it later her paranoia is amplified and she sees blood magic everywhere. If Varric gets the last fragment he gains three rune slots for Bianca, a passion of his. The player can get it crafted into a rune to improve damage. In Act II Bartrand forces his servants to eat lyrium and then he then begins to carve off their flesh for him to eat. He is compelled to recreate the effects of the corrupted lyrium from the addiction it causes. The reason you see so many rock wraiths in the forgotten thaig is that the dwarves of the thaig ate one another and all that was left were there spirits that continued to want to feed on the lyrium veins. The rulers of the dwarves at that time probably considered it cursed, the Veil is weak in the thaig, and had it sealed. They then had the records of the thaig destroyed to prevent future dwarves from learning of the thaig and possibly recreating or using the disaster for some benefit.

[Rifneno]

ModernMan2009 wrote...

The corrupted lyrium in the thaig is created from the rock wraiths eating the lyrium veins forcing it to become tainted and twisted, you see the red veins growing through the walls and columns. Lyrium is a substance created when the concentrated essence of the Fade passes through the Veil into the physical world. The vast deposits underground are probably from when the world of Thades was first created. The Idol is constructed from the corrupted lyrium after the first dwarves of the forgotten thaig began to eat the lyrium while still alive, the idol was crafted from the remains of one of the eaters. It is entirely possible that the thaig you uncover is Valdasine Thaig, see codex entry, it is forgotten because the dwarves struck the entire thaig from the shaperate records for their involvement with demons. More than likely there was some dwarf of note in that thaig that made a deal with a demon for more power and started the decline of the thaig similar to what bloodmages have done in the human world.
The corrupted lyrium has no will itself it is simply amplifies the desires and passions of those that come in contact with it. When Bartrand saw it and held it his greed was amplified and he betrayed his brother and the player. When Meridith has it later her paranoia is amplified and she sees blood magic everywhere. If Varric gets the last fragment he gains three rune slots for Bianca, a passion of his. The player can get it crafted into a rune to improve damage. In Act II Bartrand forces his servants to eat lyrium and then he then begins to carve off their flesh for him to eat. He is compelled to recreate the effects of the corrupted lyrium from the addiction it causes. The reason you see so many rock wraiths in the forgotten thaig is that the dwarves of the thaig ate one another and all that was left were there spirits that continued to want to feed on the lyrium veins. The rulers of the dwarves at that time probably considered it cursed, the Veil is weak in the thaig, and had it sealed. They then had the records of the thaig destroyed to prevent future dwarves from learning of the thaig and possibly recreating or using the disaster for some benefit.

So... it's the mood slime from Ghostbusters II.  Hrm.  There's no Statue of Liberty to animate in Thedas though.

[ModernMan2009]

The darkspawn avoid the thaig because of the rock wraiths eating them. The hunger demon you meet was drawn to the area after the dwarves canabalized themselves and were still hungry. Sad note, Sandal as a child was lost in the deep roads and somehow survived all the dangers in there. He probably ate lyrium in order to live and this broke down his dwarven natural immunity to magic. It explains his ability to craft enchantments and he probably can use lyrium directly to recreate magical effect similar to what mages can do with mana. It explains how he kills all those darkspawn in the thaig without enchantments, he used the untainted lyrium he found in the thaig to cast a spell of cold on the ogre. He probably even has visions because he is a dwarf that can touch the fade. The big thing to take from the story is that dwarves are perfectly normal until they start eating lyrium, then things get weird!

[ModernMan2009]

yes, the corrupted lyrium is mood slime.lol I imagine David Gaider is a Ghostbusters fan. =)

[Rifneno]

ModernMan2009 wrote...

yes, the corrupted lyrium is mood slime.lol I imagine David Gaider is a Ghostbusters fan. =)

That's appropriate, because Egon's "600 pound twinkie" speech is the best way to describe Kirkwall's veil.  

[ModernMan2009]

One thing to note is that when Knight-Commander Meredith dies she becomes a steaming pile of ash and red lyrium, the same process that probably decimated the dwarves of the forgotten thaig. You could even make a nice DLC storyline where her remains are stored in the Gallows but they become coveted by zealots of the chantry as relics much as the body parts of saints in Catholicism are worshipped. The story could be that zealot templars break up her remains and use the relics thinking she has a connection to The Maker like Andraste did and end-up sewing confusion that the Seekers try to stop. I think a lightly touched on sub-plot of the game is that the Wardens realize the threat this corrupted lyrium represents and are trying to seal the thaig with explosives. If the chantry or another power like tevinter ever claim the thaig it could lead to a massive power change in Thades. Imagine a templar army that already ingests lyrium to combat mages suddenly gets a hold of tainted lyrium?! They could probably declare a holy march against Tevinter's black divine and even the Qun! What is even scarier is that it seems Meridith's remains area a net surplus of "Red" Lyrium. What if a power such as Tevinter learned that you could manufacture red lyrium from forcing people to eat/use small amounts red lyrium, a society that uses blood magic and slaves could use it to restart the Imperium and overpower the chantry and all of Thades!

Modifié par ModernMan2009, 05 avril 2011 - 06:56 .

[Rifneno]

ModernMan2009 wrote...

One thing to note is that when Knight-Commander Meredith dies she becomes a steaming pile of ash and red lyrium, the same process that probably decimated the dwarves of the forgotten thaig. You could even make a nice DLC storyline where her remains are stored in the Gallows but they become coveted by zealots of the chantry as relics much as the body parts of saints in Catholicism are worshipped. The story could be that zealot templars break up her remains and use the relics thinking she has a connection to The Maker like Andraste did and end-up sewing confusion that the Seekers try to stop. I think a lightly touched on sub-plot of the game is that the Wardens realize the threat this corrupted lyrium represents and are trying to seal the thaig with explosives. If the chantry or another power like tevinter ever claim the thaig it could lead to a massive power change in Thades. Imagine a templar army that already ingests lyrium to combat mages suddenly gets a hold of tainted lyrium?! They could probably declare a holy march against Tevinter's black divine and even the Qun! What is even scarier is that it seems Meridith's remains area a net surplus of "Red" Lyrium. What if a power such as Tevinter learned that you could manufacture red lyrium from forcing people to eat/use small amounts red lyrium, a society that uses blood magic and slaves could use it to restart the Imperium and overpower the chantry and all of Thades!

That's some excellent brainstorming.  Great ideas all round.  Though I must say, with all due respect and no offense intended... you scare the hell out of me.

[Conduit0]

Modernman has some interesting ideas, but the idea that the Primeval thaig is simply a lost thaig that was struck from the memories due to some horrific event just doesn't sit well with me. When you look at the primeval thaig it completely lacks any of the normal dwarven architecture, especially the total lack of Paragon statues. Even if the dwarves in that thaig were driven to worship the lyrium idol, there should still be some signs of the usual paragons, but none exist. That instead suggests to me that the primeval thaig is exactly that, a thaig that predates the beginning of the memories and suggests a completely lost period in dwarven history.

[Blacklash93]

ModernMan2009 wrote...
 

Where does it say Valsadine dealt with demons? I read the codex entry and there's nothing on it.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 05 avril 2011 - 08:57 .

[Obadiah]

Could just be that dwarfs are more susceptible to the corruption of the idol.

Could be that the different types of lyrium have different effects on the different races. Maybe the people are tuned to the primeval lyrium the way spirits are tuned to the blue "normal" lyrium, and dwarfs are just the most easily swayed by it.

Modifié par Obadiah, 05 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[ModernMan2009]

I agree that the dwarven thaig probably predates the creation of Paragons.

[ModernMan2009]

Rifneno wrote...

ModernMan2009 wrote...

The corrupted lyrium in the thaig is created from the rock wraiths eating the lyrium veins forcing it to become tainted and twisted, you see the red veins growing through the walls and columns. Lyrium is a substance created when the concentrated essence of the Fade passes through the Veil into the physical world. The vast deposits underground are probably from when the world of Thades was first created. The Idol is constructed from the corrupted lyrium after the first dwarves of the forgotten thaig began to eat the lyrium while still alive, the idol was crafted from the remains of one of the eaters. It is entirely possible that the thaig you uncover is Valdasine Thaig, see codex entry, it is forgotten because the dwarves struck the entire thaig from the shaperate records for their involvement with demons. More than likely there was some dwarf of note in that thaig that made a deal with a demon for more power and started the decline of the thaig similar to what bloodmages have done in the human world.
The corrupted lyrium has no will itself it is simply amplifies the desires and passions of those that come in contact with it. When Bartrand saw it and held it his greed was amplified and he betrayed his brother and the player. When Meridith has it later her paranoia is amplified and she sees blood magic everywhere. If Varric gets the last fragment he gains three rune slots for Bianca, a passion of his. The player can get it crafted into a rune to improve damage. In Act II Bartrand forces his servants to eat lyrium and then he then begins to carve off their flesh for him to eat. He is compelled to recreate the effects of the corrupted lyrium from the addiction it causes. The reason you see so many rock wraiths in the forgotten thaig is that the dwarves of the thaig ate one another and all that was left were there spirits that continued to want to feed on the lyrium veins. The rulers of the dwarves at that time probably considered it cursed, the Veil is weak in the thaig, and had it sealed. They then had the records of the thaig destroyed to prevent future dwarves from learning of the thaig and possibly recreating or using the disaster for some benefit.

So... it's the mood slime from Ghostbusters II.  Hrm.  There's no Statue of Liberty to animate in Thedas though.

Meredith uses the Red Lyrium to animate several statue at the end battle! Ergo the Red Lyriumn is Dragon Age Mood Slime!  Rifneno you have uncovered the inspiration for Red Lyrium! Huzah!

[Inzhuna]

Is there any consequence to letting Varric keep the shard of the idol? From what I know, it just gives Bianca an improvement or something, and that's it.