189 réponses à ce sujet

[MrTijger]

Hurbster wrote...

Just rehire Brent for DA3 and just don't bullishly go down the 'streamlining route' anymore.

He quit, he wasnt fired, and he quit because the job was too stressful.

[Original Panther Swift]

I have been a huge Bioware fan for sometime now and could not pass up this chance to thank all involved in the Dragon Age series so far. I have really enjoyed both 1 and 2 in my spare time. They are Both Fantastic RPGs's that you can replay time and time again and still come up with a new quests and or new found humor within the party members. (Sandal.. cough.) Good stuff guys, thanks again.

[wintermonk]

lobi wrote...

wintermonk wrote...

Actually, I just started my fourth play-through of DA2, and I'm disappointed with the negative feedback because I suspect Bioware will go back to the standard story of "Man/Woman of humble origins must travel vast distances, with a small band of colorful companions, through varied terrains swarming with monsters whose purpose in life is to wait for me to arrive so I can kill them, all so that I may acquire some special magic thing to slay some big bad dark being threatening the world because, well, because he's big, bad and dark."

.

So you like 'Two' big dark beings and no 'Specific' magic thing with repeating maps.

I don't remember any of the villians being Sauron clones.  I respected one of them, and one was insane but doing what she thought was right (and some of my companions agreed with her!).  Yeah the "magic thing" was kind of a MacGuffin (to use a hitchcock term), but MacGuffins aren't necessarily bad, and a good explanation is always better, but hitchcock used MacGuffins, so I can certainly go alone with them in fantasy RPG's.  hitchcock majored on the majors (creating suspense) and minored on the minors (explaining the particulars of a MacGuffin).  Games have to do that too.  Decide what to focus on.  Once you major on something, it's always going to come at the sacrifice to something else.  I wouldn't take it personally.  Also, the magic idol is "magic" which, by its very nature, can't really be explained.

I agree on the repeating maps.  They got old.  It came across as rushed.  I just decided to use my imagination and not think about that (as I did with the same tiles in NWN and other games).  They were nice-looking at least!  But it is certainly a weakness of the game.  I suspect it came because of a decision to focus more on characters and dialogue and cinematics, and a deadline.

Call me impatient, but I would rather play DA3 in two years with some repeating maps rather than in five years with awesome, varied caves.

Also, if you read the rest of my entire post, you will see that I'm perfectly aware that I might be in the minority of people who absolutely LOVE this game, as much as DAO even!, and that's okay with me.  If I'm being vocal, it's because I'm hoping there are enough people who would like to see many of the strengths of DA2 come back in DA3.  I don't want another DAO (even though I loved DAO, I've been there and have done that...a few times!).  However, if there is an overwhelming amount of people who want to go back and do another blight and Bioware decides to make those fans happy, I'm okay with that.  I will buy DA3 unless they make an astronomically huge and bizarre change of direction (smurfs on motorcycles with machine guns).  I love Thedas as a setting--it almost feels like a parallel universe to medieveal Europe.  I want to play another chapter.

Modifié par wintermonk, 30 mars 2011 - 09:47 .

[Blacklash93]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taking fan reaction (the bad and the good) and passing it on to the Dev team is a core part of my job. I would much rather have fan feedback than silence. Sure, I would rather have everyone love everything we did and do nothing but tell me how awesome I am, but lets be realistic here. Even if you take BioWare's most successful games ever (arguably Baldur's Gate II or Mass Effect 2) there will still be people who didn't like them, or elements of them they didn't like. It is like asking what is the best ice cream or pizza topping. Not everyone likes the same things.

Except that, unlike ME2 or BG2, general consensus is that DA2 is a significant disappointment. From fans and critics alike.

It's not a matter of taste like other Bioware titles and has more to do with the fact that the game is just plain sub-par.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 30 mars 2011 - 09:44 .

[MrTijger]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Except that, unlike ME2 or BG2, general consensus is that DA2 is a significant disappointment. From fans and critics alike.

It's not a matter of taste like other Bioware titles and has more to do with the fact that the game is just plain sub-par.

This fan says otherwise, my wife says otherwise as well. So, its not a fact. I rate DA 2 lower than DAO but I still think it merits an 8/10 with DAO a 9/10.

Modifié par MrTijger, 30 mars 2011 - 09:48 .

[Scnew]

The problem with the antagonists in DA2 is that one is present from more or less the start, but isn't really an enemy. And when he becomes an enemy, it's pretty sudden, there's no real build up. Yeah, I know, he's been there 3 years already, fine, but the player doesn't really feel like there's longstanding tension. And then he goes bad, and within 20 minutes he's defeated and not a part of the game anymore.

As for the second antagonist, they don't even show up until the very end of Act 2. Her motivations are a lot better, but they really should have introduced the major players of Act 3 a while before giving us that random choice to pick between them right at the start of the act.

[Painiess]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Now here is a question. If most of you hate bioware and won't buy anymore of their content...
Then why are you still here?

Go back to the beginning and re-read the thread from the start.  This is a Bioware love in, in spite of their recent offering being .... not up to par? .... suffering from slight design flaws?  ....a ****** poor effort from this superb development studio?
So far there's only one person on this thread who says their love affair is over.  For the rest of us this is like the seven year itch.

[MrTijger]

Scnew wrote...

The problem with the antagonists in DA2 is that one is present from more or less the start, but isn't really an enemy. And when he becomes an enemy, it's pretty sudden, there's no real build up. Yeah, I know, he's been there 3 years already, fine, but the player doesn't really feel like there's longstanding tension. And then he goes bad, and within 20 minutes he's defeated and not a part of the game anymore.

As for the second antagonist, they don't even show up until the very end of Act 2. Her motivations are a lot better, but they really should have introduced the major players of Act 3 a while before giving us that random choice to pick between them right at the start of the act.

Eh, you dont have to pick any side at the start of Act 3, there's even a reply that simply states that they're both wrong. Anders forces the issue to be without resolve, I kept myself in the middle ground the whole way until he makes that impossible.

The Arishok never goes bad, he simply acts on his beliefs after being slighted once too many times. The Arishok isnt evil, he's a Shogun who wont tolerate any more loss of face. Nothing far fetched really.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Painiess wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Now here is a question. If most of you hate bioware and won't buy anymore of their content...
Then why are you still here?

Go back to the beginning and re-read the thread from the start.  This is a Bioware love in, in spite of their recent offering being .... not up to par? .... suffering from slight design flaws?  ....a ****** poor effort from this superb development studio?
So far there's only one person on this thread who says their love affair is over.  For the rest of us this is like the seven year itch.

But this is like one love thread compared to another 20 hate threads before it. I mean it seems obvious that more than 50 percent of the members on BSN hate bioware for some stupid reason, so what are they still doing here?

[Master Shiori]

I found Dragon Age 2 to be quite enjoyable. Yes, it does have it's flaws, but so did every previous Bioware game. Most of the gameplay changes were, imo, improvements over Origins, the companions were truly memorable and the story was refreshingly different from the usual "Hero goes on a quest to save the world/country/creation itself from the big Evil, and that's what made it so interesting.

I can understand that it may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's hardly a bad game and definitely not "Bioware's weakest title to date" as some love to claim.

[planed scaped]

Blacklash93 wrote...


Except that, unlike ME2 or BG2, general consensus is that DA2 is a significant disappointment. From fans and critics alike.

It's not a matter of taste like other Bioware titles and has more to do with the fact that the game is just plain sub-par.

This. Just compare the reviews.

it's not just haters or bashers, it's legitimately a lesser game. Doesn't mean people can't find it fun though.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...
I can understand that it may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's hardly a bad game and definitely not "Bioware's weakest title to date" as some love to claim.

Sure, the Sonic game was worse.

As crummy as Metacritic may be, DA2 is far and away their lowest reviewed big game. And in comparison to its predecessor, thats especially glaring. DA2 isn't a terrible game by any stretch, but (IMO) its terribly average and for a BioWare game, pretty mediocre overall.

[Horus Blackheart]

DA2 in not biowares weakest title no. However it does suffer from trying to be all things to all men. It's abit like when an 80's tv show tryed to kick start falling rattings by adding in more car chases. The das needs to find a direction and stick with it if it wants to move forword as bloodlessly as posable, The framed naritive was a good concwpt, i've just seen it implamented better, if bioware want to make more actony orentated games with in the setting fine its large enough to do that but please consider giving it its own space and stop trying to retrofit "inovative' concwpts that really don't fit a clasic rpg setting..
I may come across as overly critcal here but its tough love, I wan't bioware to learn from its mistakes. Experamentation is all well and good but it came across as 'lets just drop this in because it fits the meta data. The actiion rpg fans got me2 so why cant the clasical fans havw Aa clasical setting with no hap hazard streemlining to apeal to an audence that prolly dont really care much anyway?

[Dan UK]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I still love* you too.

The reason people here have been very... vocal is because we have the most passionate fans. When we do something you like, you let us know. When we do something you dislike, you let us know, frequently loudly.

When Fox news accused Mass Effect of being a game about sex, our fans jumped to our defense. Now that some (not all, but some) fans have problems with Dragon Age II, they are jumping to let us know. Not because they hate BioWare, actually the opposite, because they care. They want BioWare to make great games and are letting us know that they have problems with Dragon Age II. They want us to make DA2 or DLC or other future games better. Yes there are a few trolls or troublemakers who are only trying to cause trouble, but these are very few. Most people are posting to let us know they liked the game and what they liked or disliked the game and what they didn't like and they're doing it becuase they care about BioWare or Dragon Age.

Taking fan reaction (the bad and the good) and passing it on to the Dev team is a core part of my job. I would much rather have fan feedback than silence. Sure, I would rather have everyone love everything we did and do nothing but tell me how awesome I am, but lets be realistic here. Even if you take BioWare's most successful games ever (arguably Baldur's Gate II or Mass Effect 2) there will still be people who didn't like them, or elements of them they didn't like. It is like asking what is the best ice cream or pizza topping. Not everyone likes the same things.

So, yes, some people are complaining and have problems. And some people enjoyed Dragon Age II and haven't had problems. I'm still here, reading, taking the feedback (negative and positive) and making sure that their voices are heard. We do this becuase we care about what our fans and customers think almost as much as they care about what we do.


* Not a guarantee of actual love such as between a man and a really great cheeseburger.

 Probably one of the most on-the-level responses form a mod I have seen R.E this game. And it was definatly a re-asuring read. I also resonate with the OP. I will definatly be getting ME3, as I said in a thread I am even very sure I will be picking up DA3 despite my dislike for DA2. And i will most certanly be picking up SW:TOR.

 Lets just not see a knee jerk reaction!! *You look at main protagonist, look away to person hes talking too, you look back, the backround has changed to a new location!! back to the NPC, its a new location again!! *

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

I own many a Bioware game but at the moment feel like I've been cheated on. Until the trust is rebuilt it's to the couch with them.

[Skilled Seeker]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taking fan reaction (the bad and the good) and passing it on to the Dev team is a core part of my job. I would much rather have fan feedback than silence. Sure, I would rather have everyone love everything we did and do nothing but tell me how awesome I am, but lets be realistic here. Even if you take BioWare's most successful games ever (arguably Baldur's Gate II or Mass Effect 2) there will still be people who didn't like them, or elements of them they didn't like. It is like asking what is the best ice cream or pizza topping. Not everyone likes the same things.

Except that, unlike ME2 or BG2, general consensus is that DA2 is a significant disappointment. From fans and critics alike.

It's not a matter of taste like other Bioware titles and has more to do with the fact that the game is just plain sub-par.

It is a matter of taste. And no general consensus has been conducted. Don't link me to the trollfest that is Metacritic.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taking fan reaction (the bad and the good) and passing it on to the Dev team is a core part of my job. I would much rather have fan feedback than silence. Sure, I would rather have everyone love everything we did and do nothing but tell me how awesome I am, but lets be realistic here. Even if you take BioWare's most successful games ever (arguably Baldur's Gate II or Mass Effect 2) there will still be people who didn't like them, or elements of them they didn't like. It is like asking what is the best ice cream or pizza topping. Not everyone likes the same things.

Except that, unlike ME2 or BG2, general consensus is that DA2 is a significant disappointment. From fans and critics alike.

It's not a matter of taste like other Bioware titles and has more to do with the fact that the game is just plain sub-par.

It is a matter of taste. And no general consensus has been conducted. Don't link me to the trollfest that is Metacritic.

Probably the most accurate accurate consensus was a poll put on here by another user and last I checked it was a dead even split.

[planed scaped]

The Majority don't love the game.

Just like the majority don't hate the game.

The Majority are most likely in the 5.5-7.5 range. with 5 being average.

Modifié par planed scaped, 30 mars 2011 - 11:10 .

[Skilled Seeker]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taking fan reaction (the bad and the good) and passing it on to the Dev team is a core part of my job. I would much rather have fan feedback than silence. Sure, I would rather have everyone love everything we did and do nothing but tell me how awesome I am, but lets be realistic here. Even if you take BioWare's most successful games ever (arguably Baldur's Gate II or Mass Effect 2) there will still be people who didn't like them, or elements of them they didn't like. It is like asking what is the best ice cream or pizza topping. Not everyone likes the same things.

Except that, unlike ME2 or BG2, general consensus is that DA2 is a significant disappointment. From fans and critics alike.

It's not a matter of taste like other Bioware titles and has more to do with the fact that the game is just plain sub-par.

It is a matter of taste. And no general consensus has been conducted. Don't link me to the trollfest that is Metacritic.

Probably the most accurate accurate consensus was a poll put on here by another user and last I checked it was a dead even split.

http://social.biowar...20/polls/16529/
Like this one I put up days ago? Seems a third dislike, and two thirds like DA2.

[planed scaped]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

http://social.biowar...20/polls/16529/
Like this one I put up days ago? Seems a third dislike, and two thirds like DA2.

Except your poll is fail since you only have "I luvvv dis game" or "This game makes my soul die"

I didn't vote in it because I don't agree with either option.

[Dan UK]

I aplogise, I do have the enjoy-ometer thread with updates that need making, i WILL get round to this, however ive just been busy lately

[CitizenThom]

wintermonk wrote...

<snip>
But I enjoyed what was different about DA2 (despite having to endure the torment of being subjected to recyled environments and exploding bodies--sorry, I got over those minor annoyances rather quickly, and I think others should do the same. Or not. But, to me, that's like my father whining about Harry Potter flying around on a broomstick, "That is so fake!" Sigh. It's a movie. Well, DA2 is a GAME!)

I enjoyed the relationships with the characters, and I was especially surprised with how much I cared for my sister, mother, and even my crotchety uncle (who, for some reason, I got to like). I enjoyed feeling like I got to play a character at three different stages in his life in Kirkwall (disreputable nobody, respectable somebody, champion). I enjoyed an exploration of Qunari culture. I enjoyed fighting a villain that I'd come to respect (and that respected me) and that I didn't actually take any pleasure in killing even if I agreed with it as a decision. Much more interesting than some one-dimensional being that hates the world and wants to destroy it because, well, somebody has to hate it so that you have someone to kill. I enjoyed feeling like my character has a life. In most other RPG's I feel like my character has no life--he is a "quester" and his only purpose in life is to go to point B, kill bad monster, and then settle down and become somebody that can tell a few good tales around a campfire. In DA2, I felt like I had to make it happen (make myself a somebody)--I had to work to make it in the world of Kirkwall. Decide who I'd work for. Would I do morally questionable things or not? I liked having the moral decision of whether I would compromise or not to make money so that I could go on the expedition (ultimately to help my family out), and if so, how much should I compromise? (I like to play characters who try hard to be good, and I like it when it is not easy and when refusing to compromise one's moral integrity often comes at a cost--evil is boring, in my opinion; no inner conflict with simply doing whatever you feel like doing). I liked battle being fast and confusing rather than tactical. I would zoom in on my character during battle and look about, trying to see what I should do next. Rather than having some birds eye view from above. Some people missed isometric, but really, does the character have divine revelation in battle or some kind of clairvoyance that he/she can see from above and know best what to do in a given situation? No. Instead, battle felt messy and chaotic. Probably how such battles would be. No, I didn't like the bad guys dropping in from above constantly, but whatever. If you're zoomed in, you don't even see it sometimes. You just feel mobbed.

One thing I really liked, and that was new (for me anyway), was that in the combat, I would often moved around in battle a lot, especially as a warrior. I'd slam my shield into somebody to stagger him and then attack somebody else, then a third person, then back to the first. It was a good way to protect mages. In most RPG's, I find myself in a hitting war with each character. We whack each other over the head with our weapons till one of us runs out of hit points and is dead. There is still some of that in DA2 (especially with bosses), which is probably unavoidable. But I did find myself often knocking a guy on his butt and then moving to someone else. Trying to keep as many people down or staggered or stunned or busy with me as possible. 

Ditto most of the above. I too enjoyed the approach taken with the story and the way combat played out (I did laugh once when Spiders dropped down on Sundermount by way of spider silk, as if spiders lived in the clouds and could drop down from them). I hope that the critiques that have been given are used to refine what was done in Dragon Age 2 rather than scrap the approach altogether. If the latter happened, it would really be a shame.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 30 mars 2011 - 11:27 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

MrTijger wrote...

Hurbster wrote...

Just rehire Brent for DA3 and just don't bullishly go down the 'streamlining route' anymore.

He quit, he wasnt fired, and he quit because the job was too stressful.

Now see it's lies like that which give people the wrong idea of what happened. He quit because he didn't like the direction DA2 was going in. Proof below. 

"Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. 

Through a series of circumstances it was decided that with my not wanting to participate on Dragon Age 2 it was time to transition in a new lead to finish the Dragon Age console versions and ramp up for Dragon Age 2. I moved out of an active lead role though I stayed on for several months performing quality assurance and helping with the transition. I completed the game several times during this period and racked up the second or third highest bug totals… so, still busy but doing something quite different. 

After this was over and the content locked down I took a sabbatical. "

http://blog.brentkno...08-summer-2009/

[Tekman9]

i really liked the bioware guys post in this thread great level headed way to look at things. 

Modifié par Tekman9, 31 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[HawXV2]

They're doing a fantastic job with the DA franchise too. What's the problem?