79 réponses à ce sujet

[A2N2T]

You have to consider what their purpose is in the plot.
Sovereign was there introduce us to the Reapers and make them seem to a huge, scary threat to the galaxy.
Harbinger is there to be a spokesperson for the Reapers to Shepard and to try to convince Shepard that he shouldn't try to resist.

[FlyinElk212]

Atilius the Hun wrote...

However, I'm still feel that part of the issue is that Harbringer is far more ego based (insecure?) as a couple of folks pointed out here.  Harbringer sounds like he's trying to prove that he's scary whereas Sovereign isn't affected or miffed by Sheppard.  He knows that he's talking to a spec of dirt and one gets a feel that Sovereign might just be right.  

Consider this though: Sovereign's interactions with Shepard were BEFORE Shepard did anything significant against the Reapers.

When Shepard speaks to Harbinger, he's KILLED SOVEREIGN, and now, stopped the Collector plans and the Arrival plans. Sovereign had no reason to fear Shepard when they spoke, but Harbinger has multiple reasons to consider his foe somewhat formidable.

That being said, I do agree that Harbinger is vastly inferior to Sovereign.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 30 mars 2011 - 05:25 .

[Wolverfrog]

Sovereign believed himself invincible. Never in a million years did he think mere organics could destroy him.

And so when he was destroyed by Shepard, well that must have been a shock to the other Reapers. I wager that Harbinger deep down is terrified by Shepard, personally. Terrified that he'll end up another Sovereign. And so whereas Sovereign would act aloof and hardly dignify Shepard with words, Harbinger is afraid and hides his fear underneath false ego and bluster, hence the difference in dialogue.

[Gill Kaiser]

Atilius the Hun wrote...
Harbringer

Still?

[Alamar2078]

Wolverfrog wrote...

Sovereign believed himself invincible. Never in a million years did he think mere organics could destroy him.

And so when he was destroyed by Shepard, well that must have been a shock to the other Reapers. I wager that Harbinger deep down is terrified by Shepard, personally. Terrified that he'll end up another Sovereign. And so whereas Sovereign would act aloof and hardly dignify Shepard with words, Harbinger is afraid and hides his fear underneath false ego and bluster, hence the difference in dialogue.

Interesting theory & thoughts [not just you].  I wonder if / how they will follow up on this.  I'm looking forward to ME3.

[Seraphithan]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Nah, both Reapers are intimidating - it's just that Sovereign was the first. He was the Initial Scare. He was the Boo! Now that we know what's waiting in the wings, the initial impact is lessened. Now I expect Reapers, and I expect them to come on down the line with the attitude that they can't lose.

I disagree. If the only reason were that Sovereign was the first, the impact should be lessend by the second or third time you reach him during a ME playthrough. Yet I saw him being blown to pieces and still he remains to be the more intimidating one by far.

Modifié par Seraphithan, 30 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[R3MUS]

Harbinger all the way, baby! I like Sovereign too but Harbinger is so ****ing B-A-D-A-S-S!

Harbinger dialogue in the Arrival DLC ending! This may be shorter than the Sovereign dialogue but much more intense when you KNOW the Reapers are just MONTHS away to reach the galaxy and especially EARTH!


the best line ever spoken: PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR THE ARRIVAL!

[Gill Kaiser]

Nope, he still sounds like a Ham.

[grimgim]

Wolverfrog wrote...

Sovereign believed himself invincible. Never in a million years did he think mere organics could destroy him.

And so when he was destroyed by Shepard, well that must have been a shock to the other Reapers. I wager that Harbinger deep down is terrified by Shepard, personally. Terrified that he'll end up another Sovereign. And so whereas Sovereign would act aloof and hardly dignify Shepard with words, Harbinger is afraid and hides his fear underneath false ego and bluster, hence the difference in dialogue.

Never thought of it that way but it is interesting regardless.

Personally I think that Shepard being the cause of Sovereign's destruction gave another point of view, and interest as well as we see in ME2, to the Reapers. I don't think he is afraid of Shepard since the reapers are coming in force but instead regards him as annoying bug that will be squashed.

Modifié par grimgim, 30 mars 2011 - 06:38 .

[samuraix87]

i like harbringer he looks cooler than sovereign just compare both there hologram forms and harbinger does look more menacing

[R3MUS]

That people dont like Harbinger and even go as long as hating him is beyond me.

Harbinger is one of the most badass and menacing villains out there!

[Anihilus]

I still think "I am the vanguard of your destruction" is the most B.A villian line in the history of ME just my opinion I kn- ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

[Winterfly]

Anihilus wrote...

I still think "I am the vanguard of your destruction" is the most B.A villian line in the history of ME just my opinion I kn- ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

That is up there with Darth Vader, Jon Irenicus and Frank Horrigan and what not. 

[Konfined]

Harbinger's bad, he just isn't as bad as Sovereign. And by bad, I mean holy sh- this son of a **** is gonna kill us all, vanguard of our destruction type bad. The voice is what kills it for me with Harbinger, not nearly as intimidating as Sovereign's.

[Atilius the Hun]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Atilius the Hun wrote...

However, I'm still feel that part of the issue is that Harbringer is far more ego based (insecure?) as a couple of folks pointed out here.  Harbringer sounds like he's trying to prove that he's scary whereas Sovereign isn't affected or miffed by Sheppard.  He knows that he's talking to a spec of dirt and one gets a feel that Sovereign might just be right.  

Consider this though: Sovereign's interactions with Shepard were BEFORE Shepard did anything significant against the Reapers.

When Shepard speaks to Harbinger, he's KILLED SOVEREIGN, and now, stopped the Collector plans and the Arrival plans. Sovereign had no reason to fear Shepard when they spoke, but Harbinger has multiple reasons to consider his foe somewhat formidable.

That being said, I do agree that Harbinger is vastly inferior to Sovereign.

That's true.  Good point.  I imagine some of it is mitigated away since the reapers are 'legion' but the death of on reaper already would give some pause.

Modifié par Atilius the Hun, 30 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[Atilius the Hun]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Atilius the Hun wrote...
Harbringer

Still?

huh?

[Sursion]

Soveriegn was the guy who stayed in the galaxy keeping watch. He probably has more experiance dealing with organics. Harbinger just sits out in dark space all alone.

Also, like us, Reapers clearly have different personalities.

[gogman25]

Mrmm, I would havo agree and I to noticed this, Sovereign was all doom and gloom but artistic - Harbinger was just "RAWR, FEAR ME! DOOM! DOOOM! DOOOOOOM!"

[Anihilus]

Well Harbinger did grace the internet with his memes. Now we got another one to add to the list PREPARE YOURSELF FOR THE ARRIVAL!

[Oneiropolos]

Honestly, I kinda viewed it as the Reapers ain't so sure anymore being reflected in Harbinger's tone. He's trying to scare you down because he's seen what Shepherd can DO. And it does intimidate the Reapers a bit. They're supposed to be invincible and this one human is screwing things up for them. Even if it's minor stumbling blocks, the Reapers aren't supposed to stumble! For those who play WOW, the best comparison I can come up with is how Arthas appeared in the Borean Tundra/Howling Fjord as Sovereign and how he appeared in Icecrown as Harbinger. At the beginning he's all cool and and aloof and, "You can't do a thing against me, so I'm not bothered at all by what you're doing" but by Icecrown, he's throwing threats at you and stomping his foot (not literally, but you can almost imagine it) and declaring how you're changing nothing and how THIS time you'll die.

It's a slow but definite progress towards "Things are not going according to how they are supposed to" being shown in the way the Reapers are getting more insulting and schoolyard bullying as opposed to terrifying. They still firmly believe they can win, obviously, but you were a gnat that became a guard dog when they weren't looking, and that's shaken them a bit.

[FlyinElk212]

gogman25 wrote...

Mrmm, I would havo agree and I to noticed this, Sovereign was all doom and gloom but artistic - Harbinger was just "RAWR, FEAR ME! DOOM! DOOOM! DOOOOOOM!"

I support this for being a line used in ME3.

[Weskerr]

Fredvdp wrote...

They're just very different characters. Sovereign is an evil Reaper and Harbinger is a nice Reaper who's simply trying to convince you it's all for the best.

haha I was just about to post this myself as I've said this before in the past. Touche Fredvvdp...

[Bluko]

Well my first problem with Harbinger, is that Harbinger feels like a bad knock-off of Tony Jay. Or at least that's what comes to my mind.

My other problem is Harbinger sounds too "human" and is rather emotional. Sovereign was very cold, aloft, and frankly sounded like a machine. To me Reapers should speak in a fashion similar to HAL. I think Bioware made Harbinger sound more "alive" to further impress the idea that Reapers are or were living creatures. However as a result the Reapers just come off as less intimidating due to being more human.

I was afraid Harbinger was the defuncto leader of the Reapers, and Arrival only seems to confirm that. Which probably means we'll hear more of Harbinger in ME3. I just hope that there are other Reapers we'll get to talk to and that they don't all sound like Harbinger and instead sound a bit more like Sovereign.

[MrFob]

Sovereigns dialogue was clearly better than harbingers. Sovereign stressed the fact that you could never understand it's goals and motivations and it made you feel really insignificant while harbinger actually acknowledges you as being an annoyance / something to fight and therefore of consequence.It seems to have something like a personal grudge and that always makes someone (or something) appear more petty.
See, we call it "Harby", would we have dared something like that with Sovereign?
A second point is that Sovereign only spoke to you when you ran into it on Virmire and even than it was in control of that conversation, it determined it's beginning and it's end. Harbinger on the other hand is rather chatty, which, again, makes him seem a bit ... well, not insecure exactly but in that direction. Throw in the fact that you can even shut him up by shooting his current form and you have a pathetic villain (worst of all, for all intends and purposes you shoot dozens of times throughout ME2, I know it's not really him but that doesn't make it better. Sovereign would never have put up with this kind of nonsense.

The only sentence out of Harbinger that I like was "We are infinitely your greater" but even that seems a bit ... forced.

[sholden180]

I felt a more visceral response to Sovereign than to Harbinger, but the impact of Harbinger's voice might have been a major part of that.

The audio filters used on Sovereign were much thicker, he sounds far more mechanical. Harbinger just sounded like a dude trying to be intimidating. The audio techs should have piled on another layer of effects to Harbinger's audio files.

Still...Sovereign gave me shivers (I can just read some of his lines and still get goose bumps), whereas Harbinger's lines...don't.