79 réponses à ce sujet

[Nixter Shepard]

Soveriegn gave me a greater feeling of dread, but I never felt like it was a central villian. Soveriegn felt more like a voice or spokesman for the Reapers and essentially was. Harbinger feels more like a Villian than just a voice. Sure it spews try hard insults, but they've made me really want to kick it's ass and I believe Harbinger could be one of the more memorable villians of this gen so long as Bioware adds more depth to it's dialogue.

[sympathy4saren]

I did feel the same way, but after Arrival I thought BioWare made some positive changes. I was critical before, in fact overall characterization of the Reapers was a main concern. But I believe this is indicative of subtle changes. I wasn't as afraid of Harbinger because I've had success at thwarting Reapers' plans. However, I am creeped by Harbinger...and I'm sure we are going to learn a twist about the Reapers that are going to make us fear even more.

Harbinger is making it personal now for me.

[BigGuy28]

I liked Sovereign a lot more, his voice alone scared the hell out of me.

[SirLugash]

When it comes to the voice, I would also say that Sovereign's was far better than Harbinger's.
Sovereign had a really threatening voice which just sounded like voice you would expect from an artifical intelligence. Harbinger's was too human I'd say, but still not good (but worse than Sovereign).
But: When it comes to looks, Harbinger is definitely my favourite.
ME2's ending scene felt so unbelievably epic, especially with Harbinger in front of the other reapers with his glowing "eyes".
I don't know why but for me, Harbinger's shape is the one thing that makes me think: "If he arrives, we are doomed".
Sovereign appeared to me just as kind of a supersized geth ship...

[Il Divo]

Not as good as Sovereign, but I was simply happy to have *some* interaction with Harbinger compared to his taunts in ME2. In that sense, I think Bioware was listening.

[Zkyire]

Sovereign was definitely along the lines of "You are nothing".

Harbinger seems too caught up with Shepard. Like he's basically admitting that the Reapers view Shepard as a threat. Something Sovereign would never do.

[Zkyire]

Atilius the Hun wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Atilius the Hun wrote...
Harbringer

Still?

huh?

He "still?'d" because it's Harbinger, not Harbringer, like the other guy said.

*edit* Oh the other guy is you.

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 31 mars 2011 - 01:12 .

[Il Divo]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Sovereign was definitely along the lines of "You are nothing".

Harbinger seems too caught up with Shepard. Like he's basically admitting that the Reapers view Shepard as a threat. Something Sovereign would never do.

But keep in mind that by Virmire Shepard hadn't really done anything to be considered a 'threat'.

By his conversation with Harbinger, Shepard has destroyed Sovereign, eliminated the Collectors, and is about to destroy the Alpha Relay. Quite a list of accomplishments at this point.

[Zkyire]

Il Divo wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Sovereign was definitely along the lines of "You are nothing".

Harbinger seems too caught up with Shepard. Like he's basically admitting that the Reapers view Shepard as a threat. Something Sovereign would never do.

But keep in mind that by Virmire Shepard hadn't really done anything to be considered a 'threat'.

By his conversation with Harbinger, Shepard has destroyed Sovereign, eliminated the Collectors, and is about to destroy the Alpha Relay. Quite a list of accomplishments at this point.

Yeah I know, but the end result is that Harbinger is panicking. Which kinda takes away from the "Oh crap, it's a Reaper!" vibe Sovereign established.

Harbinger's continued threats are basically hollow. All that bragging about how they are infinite, eternal, invincible etc. Shepard's foiled their plans 3 times now, and knows that they can be beaten.

Harbinger comes accross as "Hey! Hey Shepard! Look at me! I'm scary! I'm so gonna kill you! You're all going to..die.. Shepard? Shepaaaaaaaaaaaaard you're not looking at meeeeee! REAPER! SCARY! .....Shepard? :("

www.youtube.com/watch <- Harbinger is Stewie in that.

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 31 mars 2011 - 01:29 .

[R3MUS]

I think we are underestimating the Reapers right now. There are at least thousands upon thousands of Reapers out there, heading to our galaxy and our planet.

They are going to crush and destroy everything in their path if we dont unite with the other species in the galaxy.

I would like to think that there are at least 1 million Reapers. Not 295 Reapers that are shown on the picture where they come forth from dark space... 295? Come on! That wouldn't even be enough for EUROPE!

[Gill Kaiser]

Where are you getting 295 from?

[R3MUS]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Where are you getting 295 from?

From the cinematic showing the Reaper fleet at the end of Mass Effect 2, there are roughly 295 Reapers visible (as seen in this screenshot).


http://masseffect.wi...eaper_fleet.png

[Zkyire]

R3MUS wrote...

I think we are underestimating the Reapers right now. There are at least thousands upon thousands of Reapers out there, heading to our galaxy and our planet.

They are going to crush and destroy everything in their path if we dont unite with the other species in the galaxy.

I would like to think that there are at least 1 million Reapers. Not 295 Reapers that are shown on the picture where they come forth from dark space... 295? Come on! That wouldn't even be enough for EUROPE!

If the Reapers had over a million.. Reapers, they'd just zerg rush the galaxy, and wouldn't have to rely on "Must.. reach.. this.. specific.. relay.. gah, damn not again Shepard!" plans, repeatedly.

[R3MUS]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

I think we are underestimating the Reapers right now. There are at least thousands upon thousands of Reapers out there, heading to our galaxy and our planet.

They are going to crush and destroy everything in their path if we dont unite with the other species in the galaxy.

I would like to think that there are at least 1 million Reapers. Not 295 Reapers that are shown on the picture where they come forth from dark space... 295? Come on! That wouldn't even be enough for EUROPE!

If the Reapers had over a million.. Reapers, they'd just zerg rush the galaxy, and wouldn't have to rely on "Must.. reach.. this.. specific.. relay.. gah, damn not again Shepard!" plans, repeatedly.

Well, the Reapers are not dumb. Why just walk into the galaxy and especially walk into the edge/corner of the galaxy when you can use the Alpha Relay located in the Batarian star system to REACH INSTANTLY ANYWHERE IN THE WHOLE GALAXY YOU WANT? Like going directly to the Citadel and destroy it and all the communications to cripple the whole galaxy and the other species will not be prepared for the Reapers.

Modifié par R3MUS, 31 mars 2011 - 01:46 .

[Zkyire]

R3MUS wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

I think we are underestimating the Reapers right now. There are at least thousands upon thousands of Reapers out there, heading to our galaxy and our planet.

They are going to crush and destroy everything in their path if we dont unite with the other species in the galaxy.

I would like to think that there are at least 1 million Reapers. Not 295 Reapers that are shown on the picture where they come forth from dark space... 295? Come on! That wouldn't even be enough for EUROPE!

If the Reapers had over a million.. Reapers, they'd just zerg rush the galaxy, and wouldn't have to rely on "Must.. reach.. this.. specific.. relay.. gah, damn not again Shepard!" plans, repeatedly.

Well, the Reapers are not dumb. Why just walk into the galaxy and especially walk into the edge/corner of the galaxy when you can use the Alpha Relay located in the Batarian star system to REACH INSTANTLY ANYWHERE IN THE WHOLE GALAXY YOU WANT? Like going directly to the Citadel and destroy it and all the communications to cripple the whole galaxy and the other species will not be prepared for the Reapers.

I'd say: arrogance. The Reapers seem full of it.

Their victory would seem a whole lot sweeter and more self-gratifying if they took the galaxy head on.

Instead they attack through the back door, using trickery, deception, and isolating the systems one by one.

[R3MUS]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

I think we are underestimating the Reapers right now. There are at least thousands upon thousands of Reapers out there, heading to our galaxy and our planet.

They are going to crush and destroy everything in their path if we dont unite with the other species in the galaxy.

I would like to think that there are at least 1 million Reapers. Not 295 Reapers that are shown on the picture where they come forth from dark space... 295? Come on! That wouldn't even be enough for EUROPE!

If the Reapers had over a million.. Reapers, they'd just zerg rush the galaxy, and wouldn't have to rely on "Must.. reach.. this.. specific.. relay.. gah, damn not again Shepard!" plans, repeatedly.

Well, the Reapers are not dumb. Why just walk into the galaxy and especially walk into the edge/corner of the galaxy when you can use the Alpha Relay located in the Batarian star system to REACH INSTANTLY ANYWHERE IN THE WHOLE GALAXY YOU WANT? Like going directly to the Citadel and destroy it and all the communications to cripple the whole galaxy and the other species will not be prepared for the Reapers.

I'd say: arrogance. The Reapers seem full of it.

Their victory would seem a whole lot sweeter and more self-gratifying if they took the galaxy head on.

Instead they attack through the back door, using trickery, deception, and isolating the systems one by one.

It actually make some little sense that the Reapers really need to cut off the communications between the other species. If the galaxy unites against the Reapers, they will lose. If the Reapers were thousands upon thousands, they wouldn't be so eager to get to that Alpha Relay...

They are incredible powerful but they are few.... Maybe 1x Reaper vs. 100x Alliance ships... But i stil dont like it being only 295 Reapers.... At least 1000 of them....

I dont think the Reapers are scary and terrifying anymore if they are just 295-300 of them... That would not even be enough for planet Earth...

[Slayer299]

Sovereign felt scary and creepy as he talked to you, I felt like a bug on a microscope and the VA for him was awesome.

Harbinger was just an angry 13yr old little boy talking big, at least throughout all of ME2. All that did was make him seem small and minor as far as being some scary "Reaper". But he did improve his dialogue in Arrival, not greatly or even amazingly, but enough to stop sounding like some little boy trying to prove how "bad" he is.

So Sovereign was the greater of the two Reapers, Harbinger was his stable boy.

[Ieldra]

Slayer299 wrote...
Sovereign felt scary and creepy as he talked to you, I felt like a bug on a microscope and the VA for him was awesome.

Harbinger was just an angry 13yr old little boy talking big, at least throughout all of ME2. All that did was make him seem small and minor as far as being some scary "Reaper". But he did improve his dialogue in Arrival, not greatly or even amazingly, but enough to stop sounding like some little boy trying to prove how "bad" he is.

So Sovereign was the greater of the two Reapers, Harbinger was his stable boy.

Exactly. Sovereign sounded menacing and full of the unshakable confidence of a godlike being. Harbinger was a pretender. A cheap one in ME2, a slightly better one in Arrival, but still a pretender.

What he should have said in Arrival was something to the effect of: "You think you have accomplished something? We are older than you can imagine, we have seen it all." That would have made me think "****, they have another backup plan". Harbinger sounds like a cheap too-human villain who doesn't know how to plan for contingencies. I think Bioware tries to hard to "make it personal". A threat like the Reapers should never be personal, it should be like a force of nature. 

As for Shepard having thwarted the Reapers: the fact remains that a single Reaper almost wiped out a complete fleet in ME1 and could only be destroyed because it used a significant amount of its energy to animate and take control of Saren. If there are enough Reapers to "darken the skies of our worlds" the known galaxy still is in deep trouble. Shepard's actions were nothing more than a delay. 100 battles the likes of the battle of the Citadel in ME1 and most of the military might of Citadel Civilization will be destroyed. I maintain that a purely military victory should be impossible.

[Lukertin]

Ieldra2 wrote...
What he should have said in Arrival was something to the effect of: "You think you have accomplished something? We are older than you can imagine, we have seen it all." That would have made me think "****, they have another backup plan". Harbinger sounds like a cheap too-human villain who doesn't know how to plan for contingencies. I think Bioware tries to hard to "make it personal". A threat like the Reapers should never be personal, it should be like a force of nature. 

What's the fun in having Harbinger rephrase what he said at the end of the SM?

[StraightEdgeUK]

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]Slayer299 wrote...
 A threat like the Reapers should never be personal, it should be like a force of nature. 


[/quote]

This. Couldn't agree more.

[Babli]

Sovereign: You exist, because we allow it and you will end, because we demand it.

B-A-D-A-S-S

Harbinger: I know you feel this. I am a great wind that will sweep all before me like a... a great wind! Your species will fall, Shepard!

I cant take Harbinger seriously. He is just another bad guy and his lines make me cringe.

[Ieldra]

Lukertin wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
What he should have said in Arrival was something to the effect of: "You think you have accomplished something? We are older than you can imagine, we have seen it all." That would have made me think "****, they have another backup plan". Harbinger sounds like a cheap too-human villain who doesn't know how to plan for contingencies. I think Bioware tries to hard to "make it personal". A threat like the Reapers should never be personal, it should be like a force of nature. 

What's the fun in having Harbinger rephrase what he said at the end of the SM?

No, he did most emphatically not say that. He said "We will *find* another way". That's cheap. A species like the Reapers would already have several contingency plans. They've been doing this for at least 37 million years, which means they've gone through at least 740 cycles of destruction, probably a lot more because they could easily be a billion years old for 20000 cycles of destruction. Harbinger's dialogue should reflect that.

It would be fitting if none of the Reapers ever spoke to us at all, but of course there needs to be some drama. If so, the least Bioware should do is to make them sound like the force of nature they are.

[Foolsfolly]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I actually think that Harbinger is the better of the two Reapers. Yes Harbinger tosses around more insults than Soverign had but his final dialogue when you set the Collector base to explode and you're feeling all good he calmly states "You have changed nothing" was creepy to me. I also felt that Harbinger at the very end of the game was more 'evil' than Sovereign was because he released the Collector General just moments before it was killed, the sad/confused look it had made me feel bad for it.
Then you have that amazing image of him waking up along with the others as they make their march towards the galaxy that's the best image in ME so far.

Harbringer > Sovereign

Second'd.

The reason why people still talk about the Sovie exchange was because it was a 'Oh S***!' Moment. You're going about the mission, preparing to nuke the place, and come across a beacon....and end up talking to a Reaper. It was mysterious and new. This was the face of the true enemy.

Harbinger, while you don't exactly know the guy, you know Reapers. He'll never live up to that first time you saw and heard a Reaper talk about how feeble and insignifcant you.

As far as dialouge for the two go, they're about the same. Harbinger just talked more as a Collector than Sovie ever did. But they're both pretty much the same kind of Unstoppable Cosmic Horror Overlord type of character.

And I cannot wait to tear Harbinger apart.

Piece.

By piece.

[Foolsfolly]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
Sovereign felt scary and creepy as he talked to you, I felt like a bug on a microscope and the VA for him was awesome.

Harbinger was just an angry 13yr old little boy talking big, at least throughout all of ME2. All that did was make him seem small and minor as far as being some scary "Reaper". But he did improve his dialogue in Arrival, not greatly or even amazingly, but enough to stop sounding like some little boy trying to prove how "bad" he is.

So Sovereign was the greater of the two Reapers, Harbinger was his stable boy.

Exactly. Sovereign sounded menacing and full of the unshakable confidence of a godlike being. Harbinger was a pretender. A cheap one in ME2, a slightly better one in Arrival, but still a pretender.

What he should have said in Arrival was something to the effect of: "You think you have accomplished something? We are older than you can imagine, we have seen it all." That would have made me think "****, they have another backup plan". Harbinger sounds like a cheap too-human villain who doesn't know how to plan for contingencies. I think Bioware tries to hard to "make it personal". A threat like the Reapers should never be personal, it should be like a force of nature. 

As for Shepard having thwarted the Reapers: the fact remains that a single Reaper almost wiped out a complete fleet in ME1 and could only be destroyed because it used a significant amount of its energy to animate and take control of Saren. If there are enough Reapers to "darken the skies of our worlds" the known galaxy still is in deep trouble. Shepard's actions were nothing more than a delay. 100 battles the likes of the battle of the Citadel in ME1 and most of the military might of Citadel Civilization will be destroyed. I maintain that a purely military victory should be impossible.

If he said that it would just be empty bravdo. Reapers are huge windbags who think they're everything. The whole reason why they can't say they've seen everything is because they haven't. Mass Effect 1 broke the cycle of the Citadel trap. Now their Collectors are itsy bitsy pieces floating around a black hole and their Alpha Relay is gone.

No one's done that. They've never faced Shepard before.

[AmyBA]

I STILL get chills everytime I replay ME1 and run into Soverign, and I still get chills when Joker says Soverign is turning around and coming for me, doing a turn that is so sharp and fast it would shear any other ship in half. And a lot of it IS because of how he speaks, his words, his voice. When he tells me I am unable to comprehend him, I feel fear because his voice IS alien, it isnt "alive" or familar, it stirs up something in me and gives me an uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach at how "empty" it is, and I realize that hes right because I DON'T comprehend him.How am I supposed to stop him when I have no way of predicting or understanding him or his motivations? It was a very intense moment the first time, because he wasn't insulting really, he was very straight forward and brutally honest. He doesn't dance around his words or try to hide his intentions. Every line is delivered very calmly, very precise. He isnt trying to scare your or threaten you because to him it is all a matter of stating simple facts. Its very cold.

I was excited to hear/see another reaper when I first played ME2, I wanted to see more of them, and wanted to know what Harbinger was like, but the first intro to him was a little disappointing, and had always been a "meh" point for me. His voice is too human, I don't get that same sense of of unease, I hear the voice and it sounds alive and organic, it has a familiarty to me, and I feel comfortable with it because of that. There is nothing alien about it. The fact that he does try too hard to insult me and use creative language to threaten me is not intimidating at all, he seems like he is trying to convince himself that the reapers will win, more so than he is trying to convince me.

Some people say that is the point though, that the reapers are afraid now because Shep has done so much against them, but I still think thats a bit pitiful. These guys shouldn't be shaken so easily. They are old, they are patient, they are beyond comprehension, and yet now they suddenly have lower self esteem because they've been set back a bit and one reaper has been killed? I do not buy it. I bet you they have had other reapers killed in the last several million years, we have proof that there have been some huge battles out there with ancient races (Klendagon anyone? Ploba with the huge hidden structures that are possible old weapons of war?), and then there is also the derelict reaper and the crashed Leviathan of Dis (which i am betting is a very old reaper, one of the very first). I do not see them suddenly getting their proverbial panties in a bunch, I see them as staying confident and unphased to very end, and a reaper that maintianed that attitude would be much more terrifying to me..

Modifié par AmyBA, 31 mars 2011 - 01:09 .