If you cannot come at this with a valid arguement and prove me wrong instead of saying "lol you just complain about complainers lolololololol you suck bawls." Then you are further proving my point.
People's arguements that contribute civily and not insult people for pointing out their faults:
aLucidMind-
The only time I find people looking at plot holes annoying is when:
A- They constantly compare it to real life.
B- The only reason they don't enjoy the game is due to how they completely broke down the Reapers are a bad plot device by diving as deep as possible into figuring out why they are a bad plot device. Despite the fact that they LOVED the game and story when they first played it, now hate it.
C- Have no imagination to validate the plot hole for themselves or label anything they don't understand or like as a plot hole.
D- Are completely rude about it. There is a difference between being critical and being a complete dick about the plot hole.
UsagiVindaloo-
My issue is not so much pointing out or criticizing plot holes - it actually gives me food for thought - but the manner in which it is done.
"I think there is a plot hole here," is perfectly fine. It raises an issue in a respectful manner.
"I think there is a plot hole here. What do you guys think?" is even better. It not only raises the issue, but invites discussion as well as acknowledges that other fans may have different viewpoints.
"I think there is a plot hole here. Bioware is being lazy and stupid as always!" is not okay. While it may raise the issue, it then sort of undermines it with negative emotions and insults.
In short, one can still make the exact same points, criticisms etc while still showing respect to all parties involved. And that just makes the argument all the stronger.
Coach Jon-
People have the right to opinions. It can be good for a developer to have fans invested in the plot / lore of their material for obvious reasons. Helps improve story elements and encourages the writers. As for me, I typically only care about large scale plot holes. For instance, changing something to the point it is unrecognizable or illogical. The smaller stuff I could care less about (ie A piece of medical equipment that used to not heal burn injuries suddenly heals them).
Having said that, I found nothing to nitpick storywise with Arrival. But I have no problems with other people who are more invested in it than I. I would imagine Bioware is thankful for a good chunk of it.
Bluko-
Plot holes are like pot holes. They're annoying and they should be fixed/avoided.
Sometimes they are small and not very noticeable. Sometimes they are so big that they end up spilling spill hot coffee in your lap. But then it's also possible to avoid them sometimes, but then again sometimes you can't either.
Most of ME2's "plotholes" are relatively minor and don't trouble me a great deal, if at all. Most of my complaints are on the poor implementation (or lack thereof) of certain game mechanics and the presentation of certain things...
I'll admit some people's complaints come off as rather trite, and some people seem to have no end of issues. But people are entitled to their opinion. And as long as it's constructive and the poster offers suggestions on how to make it better, I really see no problem. Bioware needs to know what they did wrong and what they did right. If you think there's too much "complaining" create a thread about all the things in ME2 you felt they did right. But these posts of people complaining about "the complaining" strike me as perhaps the most pointless of them all.
That said I found a number of things in Arrival a bit hard to swallow having played the series since ME1. Arrival has that bad tendency to contradict much of our prior knowledge, and I don't find that particularly good storytelling. Also to me the plot twist was a bit too obvious. And considering that Bioware's main focus is the story, I find it a tad alarming. I would like to continue to see Bioware make great games, not just "okay" games. And I feel the best way to do that is point out what they did wrong so they can learn from their mistakes. Generally speaking most people tend to learn more by correcting their mistakes, then simply getting it right.
Gentleman Moogle-
Part of the reason I think we as gamers are more sensitive to plot holes is that games like ME2 are so immersive. It's what I've always enjoyed about Bioware's games; they create these huge sprawling worlds and then proceed to fill them to the gills (usually) with enough life and story that it actually feels like you're IN the world when you play. We dive into the world, we want to live in it, we feel like we're actually inside the game the more we play...
And then we hit something that doesn't make sense. In a movie or a book, it'd be easier to ignore because those are non-interactive mediums. We watch a movie or read a book, we're not especially invested in the story beyond the entertainment value usually. The same is not necessarily true of video games. In games like ME2, I invest a part of myself into the character and the story. It's not just Shepard fighting through the game, it's a part of me as well. So when I, as a gamer, come across a plot hole, or even a plot inconsistency, it is far more noticeable, especially if it's large enough to yank me out of that immersion.
As for why we complain... For myself, it's because I want Bioware to do better. I enjoyed both ME games immensely, but there's always room for improvement, and I don't want Bioware -- probably my favorite developer ever -- to stagnate and become lazy in their writing. Square fell into that trap after FF7, and I haven't been able to enjoy any of their games since. I don't want to see the same thing happen to Bioware.
So, I criticize. Life is too short to blithely accept mediocrity if and when it is handed to us. I criticize out of love, out of a desire to see Bioware rise above even its previous successes, not just out of a desire to tear the designers a new one.
Modifié par Soahfreako, 02 avril 2011 - 11:01 .
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