47 réponses à ce sujet

[darklight_tr]

Anariel Theirin wrote...

Yes, and I'm a bit baffled by it.  It took one of my brothers 30 hours to beat it, my other brother around 40, and me, over 50.  The only difference is that, for the brother who took 30 hours, he didn't have the DLC (which barely added an hour or two extra anyway).  I have no idea how I got the 50 hours, but I have seen a few (rare) other people on here saying it took them about as long.  Mostly everyone is saying exactly what you are--that it's significantly shorter.  

I beat DA:O in almost 75 hours and DA2 took about 55.  So for me there was plenty of gameplay.  But I did every quest I could find, read all of the lore that is added to the codex and thoroughly explored each area.

I would still be happy with 30 hours of gameplay.  I don't get why people hold RPGs to this standard where they have to be massively long yet many are willing to buy FPS games that have a 5 hour campaign.  RPGs give you the most bang for your buck in my opinion.

As for DA2 - I enjoyed it.  Its not a perfect game but isn't deserving of the railroading that many are giving it.  I have played much worse RPGs.

[Anariel Theirin]

Capt. Klef wrote...

SEEE THATS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

I don't really have a problem with cliffhangers in general, but in the context of the game, I agree that it was a strange place to end it.  It felt like things were finally just building up to something interesting and exciting, and then...it was over.  

In fact, for most of the game, I felt like I was being teased.  "Look, here's another mage...he might not be a bad guy this time!...Fooled you!"  By the end of the game, I just wanted it to be over.  I didn't care anymore, and didn't want to help either side.  Almost every quest was a tease, and the ending felt the same way.

That being said, Act II was great, I think.  I felt like there was a great build up of plot with the Arishok, and the conclusion to all that was fun and exciting.  The mages versus templars plot just never pulled me in, however, and so Act III (except for an individual quest or two) was a disappointment.  I feel like if they were aiming for political intrigue for this game, I'd have rathered see more about the Arishok and Quunari, and let the final battle be with the Arishok.  Maybe a book would have been a better medium for the mages/templars plot, as a nice lead in for whatever plot they're cooking up for DA3.  

And for the record, I actually like plots dealing with the delicate set up between mages and templars!  I was very interested in this in Origins, and typically find myself very torn between whether the Circles are good or bad, a help or a hindrance.  But I don't like how it was specifically done in DA2.  I wanted to care, and I wanted it to be a difficult decision which side to pick.  I actually didn't care which side to pick because I didn't care about either side, even though my own sister and LI was on the mage side.  I know they succeeded in making some people care, and by no means am saying that this is how everyone experienced it, but I do see quite a few people on here who felt the same that I do.

[Anariel Theirin]

darklight_tr wrote...

Anariel Theirin wrote...

Yes, and I'm a bit baffled by it.  It took one of my brothers 30 hours to beat it, my other brother around 40, and me, over 50.  The only difference is that, for the brother who took 30 hours, he didn't have the DLC (which barely added an hour or two extra anyway).  I have no idea how I got the 50 hours, but I have seen a few (rare) other people on here saying it took them about as long.  Mostly everyone is saying exactly what you are--that it's significantly shorter.  

I beat DA:O in almost 75 hours and DA2 took about 55.  So for me there was plenty of gameplay.  But I did every quest I could find, read all of the lore that is added to the codex and thoroughly explored each area.

I would still be happy with 30 hours of gameplay.  I don't get why people hold RPGs to this standard where they have to be massively long yet many are willing to buy FPS games that have a 5 hour campaign.  RPGs give you the most bang for your buck in my opinion.

As for DA2 - I enjoyed it.  Its not a perfect game but isn't deserving of the railroading that many are giving it.  I have played much worse RPGs.

Well, I think people have certain expectations when they buy certain genres of games.  We're forgiving of a 5 hour FPS because that's just the way FPS is done.  There usually isn't a lot of story involved, and when you buy the game, you're expecting that.  You want FPS, and if you get FPS, it's satisfying.

If you buy an RPG, the very name of the genre "role playing game" indicates you're going to get a story, and play a part in it, and hopefully get to role play some part of it.  I think that's where people are upset by DA2, and shorter RPGs in general.  You're expecting to put your money down for a certain thing, and you get something else.  I expect to put in at least 40 hours into any roleplaying game (my favorite genre).  If I don't get that, I do feel disappointed because it feels to me that I'd want more story.  That's what I was paying for, after all.  

This is my main gripe with DA2.  I want immersion.  I want to care about the characters.  I want a story that grips me.  I want my character to *matter* in the story.  Aside from a few smaller quests that were over rather quickly, I didn't get any of this.  I could overlook the repeating dungeons (even though I hated that), and I could deal with the dialogue wheel (though I wasn't fond of that either), and I can get over a dozen other gripes I have with the game, as long as I love the story.  That's where this game failed me.  (And I realize I'm one of many voices and there are many out there who do love the game--I do think their opinions are valid too!)

That being said, I don't hate DA2.  There are moments in the game that stand out for me as excellent, and there are some things the game did get very right.  I have also played worse RPGs, but I've definitely also played better.

[darklight_tr]

Anariel Theirin wrote...

Well, I think people have certain expectations when they buy certain genres of games.  We're forgiving of a 5 hour FPS because that's just the way FPS is done.  There usually isn't a lot of story involved, and when you buy the game, you're expecting that.  You want FPS, and if you get FPS, it's satisfying.

If you buy an RPG, the very name of the genre "role playing game" indicates you're going to get a story, and play a part in it, and hopefully get to role play some part of it.  I think that's where people are upset by DA2, and shorter RPGs in general.  You're expecting to put your money down for a certain thing, and you get something else.  I expect to put in at least 40 hours into any roleplaying game (my favorite genre).  If I don't get that, I do feel disappointed because it feels to me that I'd want more story.  That's what I was paying for, after all.  

This is my main gripe with DA2.  I want immersion.  I want to care about the characters.  I want a story that grips me.  I want my character to *matter* in the story.  Aside from a few smaller quests that were over rather quickly, I didn't get any of this.  I could overlook the repeating dungeons (even though I hated that), and I could deal with the dialogue wheel (though I wasn't fond of that either), and I can get over a dozen other gripes I have with the game, as long as I love the story.  That's where this game failed me.  (And I realize I'm one of many voices and there are many out there who do love the game--I do think their opinions are valid too!)

You make an excellent point regarding expectations.  I was looking it purely from a cost/benefit standpoint if you bought both at the same price.  I would NOT be satisfied playing $50 for a 5 hour FPS campaign unless it is unbelieveably good (which is rare).

I disagree regarding the story.  Aside from the middle of Act 1 where the organization is a bit messy, I liked how different the story telling in DA2 is.  There isn't a set bad guy/gal you are pursuing throughout the game.  You are simply viewing the exploits of your character to become the Champion of Kirkwall and his/her part in a world changing event (though the cliffhanger at the end kinda sucked).  The tie ins to previous Acts in 2 and 3 were nice and for me the story had good continuity.  I also like the companion quests in DA2 and enjoyed my interaction with them.  Sure, you had to keep running to their "home base" to have those conversations, but there were a good number of them and they were interesting.

The area/map recycling is what really bugged me.  After getting blasted for doing that in ME1 (and fixing it in ME2) they went backwards and it is even worse in DA2 than ME1.

But everyone has their particular likes and dislikes and what may be great for one person is horrible for another.  That is what makes life interesting!

Modifié par darklight_tr, 30 mars 2011 - 04:19 .

[Anariel Theirin]

darklight_tr wrote...

You make an excellent point regarding expectations.  I was looking it purely from a cost/benefit standpoint if you bought both at the same price.  I would NOT be satisfied playing $50 for a 5 hour FPS campaign unless it is unbelieveably good (which is rare).

Well, thanks!  ^^  I generally agree with you on "more bang for your buck" too.  I haven't played many FPS games since I prefer to wield daggers/swords/magic in games.  I don't usually think of it in terms of how many hours you get out of a game, but that's a very good way to measure its worth.  The one benefit to shorter games, I'd say, is that if it has excellent replay value, you still are going to spend more time on it.  On the other hand, I've replayed certain RPGs out there regardless of how long they are.  I did three full playthroughs on Origins, for example, and am now starting my fourth.  I've clocked over 200 hours into the game, and that's not counting any of the DLC or Awakenings.  Yet, I feel no urge to pick up DA2 again...at least, not yet.  This has more to do with personal preference, though.

I disagree regarding the story.  Aside from the middle of Act 1 where the organization is a bit messy, I liked how different the story telling in DA2 is.  There isn't a set bad guy/gal you are pursuing throughout the game.  You are simply viewing the exploits of your character to become the Champion of Kirkwall and his/her part in a world changing event (though the cliffhanger at the end kinda sucked).  The tie ins to previous Acts in 2 and 3 were nice and for me the story had good continuity.  I also like the companion quests in DA2 and enjoyed my interaction with them.  Sure, you had to keep running to their "home base" to have those conversations, but there were a good number of them and they were interesting.

I do feel the companion quests were, for the most part, really well done.  Merrill's was especially great, I think.  It's a shame that it glitched for so many people!  Even so, I still felt much less connected to these companions than I did in Origins.  I'm not sure of the reason why, but I have a few theories on why it just didn't work for me.  Although, I see other people here saying they felt strongly for these companions, so it definitely worked for some people.

I'd say that even a lot of the side quests were interesting and intriguing, at least until the end of them.  I got really irritated about halfway through the game when I realized that good mages were a very, very rare thing indeed (I can only think of four mages in the whole game that don't go psycho).  This could have been avoided had I realized what might be the thing causing so many mages to go bad, but that detail was left to chance of finding each codex, and assuming that every player reads every codex entry the moment they pick it up in the game.

That "viewing the exploits" thing...that's where I got lost.  I didn't feel important in the game *except* when I was talking to the Arishok.  It made sense to me that, for some reason, I had that certain something special that made him willing to deal with me and not many others.  My role in the main plot, the mages/templars story, didn't feel clear to me at all.  I felt like I was just there while crazy things were happening, and why was I?  I didn't have to take half the quests.  This city isn't even my home city, so I felt no real personal attachment to it.  I imagined that my character, after having lived most of her life in Lothering, would still feel as *that* place as home, not Kirkwall.  For me, there was a disconnect, and the main plot ended up feeling fragmented.  

I'm mostly disappointed in the plot because I feel like I *could* have loved this plot if it was delivered a little differently.  I really like the idea behind it, and a lot of the details.  I don't even mind that we aren't fighting "The Big Bad."  I just wanted...a purpose of some sort.  Once the Arishok was dead, I felt like I didn't have that anymore.

The area/map recycling is what really bugged me.  After getting blasted for doing that in ME1 (and fixing it in ME2) they went backwards and it is even worse in DA2 than ME1.

I haven't played the ME games, so I can't compare.  All I know is that I never played any game before that recycled things like this.  It greatly contributed to my boredom during the quests.  Not only were we confined to the same city most of the time, we were also confined to the same dungeon maps when we weren't in the city.  It eliminated that element of exploration that I often love about RPGs.

But everyone has their particular likes and dislikes and what may be great for one person is horrible for another.  That is what makes life interesting!

Very true!  It's a little daunting being on these forums where so many are of the mind that if someone doesn't/does like something you feel the opposite about, that person is just wrong and stupid.  It's one thing to defend your opinion, and quite another to outright insult the opposing view!  Everyone is entitled to feel what they feel about the game.  So, this may sound strange to say, but thank you for the respectful reply.  :happy:

[Danjaru]

Asdara wrote...

Please note, I wasn't going to post... until you told me not to - who made you the boss?

1.) MY game is about the same playtime as one of my original DA:O games before the DLC that came down after the core came (with Shale, cause I got that included).  Maybe you are playing it wrong.  Maybe you are not putting the same amount of effort into finding the little side trips and extra dialog and unmarked quests.

2.) You want to save the world every time you play a DA game?  That would be boring, and also cheapen the act of doing something epic into something that happens every few years in Thedas.  Brilliant plan, write to Bioware about it, see what they say.

3.) You live in a place, you tend to stay local - especially if travel takes a long time, like it would in a world without cars, trains, planes, and so forth.  Plus, Hawke has no reason to be out traveling the world except YOU wanting to see new areas, so I am guessing you'd complain about "no reason for us to be going everywhere" if it was the other way around.  

4.) That's unfortunate.  I've played through 4 times and had to reset for freeze maybe a dozen times, so I don't consider that too too bad, but I've heard others are having more difficulty (I'm on console, PS3, so maybe that's a factor, I don't know).  I am sorry you're in the group that is having problems, excessive freezing always disrupts a good gaming experience.

5.) I didn't love that aspect either, but it does make some sense given the fact that you aren't their "leader" or their mother/father to dress them as you see fit.  People want to wear what they want I guess, and since we're all living life in the city of our own choice and not, say, wandering gathering an army for the Blight picking up anything we can find along the way and putting it to use... meh.  We get weapons and accessories - the signature outfits are supposed to make up for lack of customization in look - but I would have liked to see an option mode where they had at least 3 things to wear that I could select - or more notably different outfits as you upgraded them, sure.   On the upside, inventory management doesn't take eleventy billion hours like it used to.

6.) You're obviously in shock, so I'm just going to let that sink in on its own.

Goodluck.  

1.- The game is about as long, but with MUCH less content.

2.- no, But I don't want to be playing a game as pointless as the Sims but with the exception of you creating genocide. Games are Supposed to have a point, not just you ****ing around and occasionally having something to do.

A story that doesn't have you save the world is one thing.. But at least have the game have a goal or something, otherwise it's just the Sims with alot of battles. The good driving story without having to save the world has been done successfully before, in a superior game called Planescape Torment.

3.- Yes, Dragon Age Origins and Awakenings didn't have cars or planes or even horses either.. Yet in both games you visit several areas within the country..... There is no real justification to keep us in the same unchanging enviroment, and when we visit other places they are the same copypasted dungeons.

5.- I hate Bioware's logic on that, the games are supposed to be about You and your party. but then they go "We want you to see the characters the way we want! god forbid you could actually have control over your party". I don't care if it's not in their vision, when you play a game you want to at least feel like it's your story or a story you're creating.

[Asdara]

Danjaru wrote...

1.- The game is about as long, but with MUCH less content.

2.- no, But I don't want to be playing a game as pointless as the Sims but with the exception of you creating genocide. Games are Supposed to have a point, not just you ****ing around and occasionally having something to do.

A story that doesn't have you save the world is one thing.. But at least have the game have a goal or something, otherwise it's just the Sims with alot of battles. The good driving story without having to save the world has been done successfully before, in a superior game called Planescape Torment.

3.- Yes, Dragon Age Origins and Awakenings didn't have cars or planes or even horses either.. Yet in both games you visit several areas within the country..... There is no real justification to keep us in the same unchanging enviroment, and when we visit other places they are the same copypasted dungeons.

5.- I hate Bioware's logic on that, the games are supposed to be about You and your party. but then they go "We want you to see the characters the way we want! god forbid you could actually have control over your party". I don't care if it's not in their vision, when you play a game you want to at least feel like it's your story or a story you're creating.

I hear you, but what reason would Hawke (assuming, as the story indicates, that they are trying to set up a reasonable life for themselves after fleeing a previous home) have to go traveling beyond Kirkwall's local area?  

[Redneck1st]

darklight_tr wrote...

Anariel Theirin wrote...

Yes, and I'm a bit baffled by it.  It took one of my brothers 30 hours to beat it, my other brother around 40, and me, over 50.  The only difference is that, for the brother who took 30 hours, he didn't have the DLC (which barely added an hour or two extra anyway).  I have no idea how I got the 50 hours, but I have seen a few (rare) other people on here saying it took them about as long.  Mostly everyone is saying exactly what you are--that it's significantly shorter.  

I beat DA:O in almost 75 hours and DA2 took about 55.  So for me there was plenty of gameplay.  But I did every quest I could find, read all of the lore that is added to the codex and thoroughly explored each area.

I would still be happy with 30 hours of gameplay.  I don't get why people hold RPGs to this standard where they have to be massively long yet many are willing to buy FPS games that have a 5 hour campaign.  RPGs give you the most bang for your buck in my opinion.

As for DA2 - I enjoyed it.  Its not a perfect game but isn't deserving of the railroading that many are giving it.  I have played much worse RPGs.

Having played through the game will have to admit that over all it wasn't all that bad. Play time took about 50 hours or so on hard. As for the game freezing like some folks supposedly had experienced will have to admit that it never froze on me once. There are a few things for which I wouldn't mind them addressing like the problem with Merrils quest as well as for the regeneration items not regenerating; and yes this includes the Devour upgrades for Reavor ablitliy also.

I did miss a couple of the quest due to the fact of the game that I took the import from due to I missed a couple of quest like the one for Nathaniel Howe. But live and learn as they say and I'll remember that next time through.

Might just play DAO and take it all the way through to this one So that I can get all the quest.

It just goes to show that you can't please everyone  no matter how hard you try.

[Beerfish]

[quote]Danjaru wrote...

1.- The game is about as long, but with MUCH less content.

2.- no, But I don't want to be playing a game as pointless as the Sims but with the exception of you creating genocide. Games are Supposed to have a point, not just you ****ing around and occasionally having something to do.

The game does have a point, several in fact.  You are a poor refuge you need to get back to being a rich citizen.  The city you live in is being threatened by  a foreign force, you need to stop them.  The whole political architecture of the thedas is about to go boom, you need to make a choice or two about what to do about it and as imporantly make choices about your companions.

A story that doesn't have you save the world is one thing.. But at least have the game have a goal or something, otherwise it's just the Sims with alot of battles. The good driving story without having to save the world has been done successfully before, in a superior game called Planescape Torment.

Torment was a fantastic game, but how it's story in the end has more of a point than this one is debateable.

3.- Yes, Dragon Age Origins and Awakenings didn't have cars or planes or even horses either.. Yet in both games you visit several areas within the country..... There is no real justification to keep us in the same unchanging enviroment, and when we visit other places they are the same copypasted dungeons.

Yeah there is, it's called a city adventure (ala some of the old DnD modules).  I don't think anyone disputes that the rehashed areas were not a good thing at all but the limited location was not that big of a deal, they just needed to add more areas to the city environs.

5.- I hate Bioware's logic on that, the games are supposed to be about You and your party. but then they go "We want you to see the characters the way we want! god forbid you could actually have control over your party". I don't care if it's not in their vision, when you play a game you want to at least feel like it's your story or a story you're creating.

It all depends on what you mean by having control over your party members?  Can you expand on that point?  As tou your last sentences, just as many people beef about that as being a bad thing as a good thing.  Other than the origins in DA you are just as railroaded in that game as any other if you want to put it that way,

[Danjaru]

Asdara wrote...

Danjaru wrote...

1.- The game is about as long, but with MUCH less content.

2.- no, But I don't want to be playing a game as pointless as the Sims but with the exception of you creating genocide. Games are Supposed to have a point, not just you ****ing around and occasionally having something to do.

A story that doesn't have you save the world is one thing.. But at least have the game have a goal or something, otherwise it's just the Sims with alot of battles. The good driving story without having to save the world has been done successfully before, in a superior game called Planescape Torment.

3.- Yes, Dragon Age Origins and Awakenings didn't have cars or planes or even horses either.. Yet in both games you visit several areas within the country..... There is no real justification to keep us in the same unchanging enviroment, and when we visit other places they are the same copypasted dungeons.

5.- I hate Bioware's logic on that, the games are supposed to be about You and your party. but then they go "We want you to see the characters the way we want! god forbid you could actually have control over your party". I don't care if it's not in their vision, when you play a game you want to at least feel like it's your story or a story you're creating.

I hear you, but what reason would Hawke (assuming, as the story indicates, that they are trying to set up a reasonable life for themselves after fleeing a previous home) have to go traveling beyond Kirkwall's local area?  

He had a reason to go farther into the deep roads than anyone before him for the sake of making money.. If they didn't rush the game and could've made new enviroments or even another city it's not too difficult to create a reason for Hawke to go there.

They could expand on Flemeth and have him go after her, they could have a larger Qunari force try and invade and are marching to a nearby city and Kirkwall decides to help against the battle, making Aveline force Hawke and company into the struggle (and the fact that if that city falls, Kirkwall might be next).

Granted those two examples aren't the best, but at the same time I'm not a writer and if Gaider and co wanted a reason for Hawke to leave the city (and the 3D modellers and whatnot had the time to create said city) they could've created a good reason.

[Asdara]

I could see the merit in visiting another city - Starkhaven springs to mind immediately, given the Circle mages coming from there seem troublesome and Sebastian should at least look on his home before deciding to take it back or leave it in other hands.

Chasing Flemeth seems... not congruent with wanting to settle into a life pattern. The odds of finding where a dragon flew seem slim and we've got no real reason other than curiosity to be mounting that sort of trip (funding issues would come up too I imagine).

A Qunari invasion on a full scale would take a whole lot of emphasis off the Mage/Templar issue, and might be packaged for another installment all together anyway.

My point, though, is that the story *as it is* doesn't give Hawke a reason to travel to far distant vistas. Perhaps a local trip - like Starkhaven or another Free Marches city - would be justifiable. Hey - Varric could have merchant guild business that was urgent in some nearby place, or a rival to put down, or what-have-you, but really grandiose traveling - like we did in DAO all over the country - isn't really called for with Hawke's situation is all I am saying.

[Taura-Tierno]

Took me 50 after to beat the game. Shorter than my Origins playthroughs, but not much. 50 hours is still insanely long compared to most games, so I'm happy with it.

I liked the fact that the story was personal, not epic. It was a nice variation from all the "let's save the world".

I liked the unique companion outfits.

I will not judge the cliffhanger ending until we've seen expansions/DLC. Baldur's Gate 2 had a really similar ending in terms of cliffhanger, and the expansion turned out great.

[Danjaru]

Never said my ideas were good (even said they were bad in my own post).. But saying that it's not difficult to create a valid reason for Hawke to travel around a little. For nothing else than a change of scenery for the player. A personal story =/= your story in one perticular city.

I mean, even if you want to focus alot on the mage - templar struggle.. Have Hawke for some reason visit a Circle Tower or a Circle Tower and the nearby city for some conflict, or go into the gallows. There's alot of things that could be done.

[FubarCFSnafu]

I though the main plot idea was a good idea. However, the story seemd to be a bit hollow and full of holes which left your story and your companions a bit hollow. This is especially true after supposedly knowing them for 10 years.

Hawke's Family:
I am not sure what our history was or of my background. We are running from Ferelden (Lothering) but I am not sureif I was a farmer, merchant, etc. It may be possible that I missed this, but it is hard to pin down. This could have been done so much better then what we received. You do get some bits and drabs through some conversation though.

1. Finding out the business that the Hawkes used to do. This could have been tied to the Bone Pit whose owner isHubert. A sub-plot could be getting it back either civilly (buyng it out or partnering) or underhanded (killing himor forcing hm to sell.

2. Going into the basement of the Hawke Estate: This was a good start but there was not much else to be found, it would have been nice to find other things of the past other than a portrait. The slavers used it, then there could have been secret rooms built into it for the use of slaves, etc. This would allow further explorations or other quests to find out the family history since apparently they live in Kirkwall.


3. Leandra. As you are aware of what happens to her, there is not much to go on with your character's mother. This could have been explored alot more and opened new insight in regards to your family. After you come back, she is now in the Hawke estate, saying a few things, but not much else. How about a quest to find a a possible husband for your mom. Your companions could have even helped, by keeping any eye out for one during their travels and they could talk to you about in a conversation cut scene. Picture each of the personalities involved, Aveline, Fenris, Merill, it could ahve provided foe some humorous moments. Afterwards, a wedding could take place where it would allow thecompanions to talk to one another during the reception and have the character dance or flirt during this time. Again, it allows immersion and story telling. The plot could still be followed and allow what happens to her in the end, but it would have been even more of an impact because you could now connect with her.

The Bone Pit:
This could ahve been a good jumping off point to provide some solid quests and reasoning behind it. Clearing the area of bandits, establishing a supply route, clearing out the monsters. And guess what, you now have a meaningful reason to go there on quests because you now have a motive to do so. You can also receive income from it once this has been done. You could receive several letters from Hubert with money in it.
This could also be taken a step further, you get it from Hubert, you now have a say on the merchant's guild because this mine supplies Kirkwall (with what, I ahve no idea what they are mining though). Now oyu ahve a further stake in Kirkwall and some quests or interaction can be done in regards to this, you can hire the Ferelden's this was touched upon, but nothing else was really done with it, instead it was left flat and empty. I mean, you could have a mining town grow around it where you ahve to protect it from bandits/darkspawn in another act or year.

Character Growth:
There isn't any other than by saying you are a noble with an estate or champion after Act II. How about the character eanring his nobility and be knighted in a ceremony after doing important work, such as the following:

1. Mage: Creating a new magic item that helps the city somehow, you ahve to do quests and move up the ranks next to the First Enchanter and the city recognizes this. Or you help try yo keep the peace by rooting out Blood Mages and abominations, finding lost texts of magic in the undercity when it was part of Tevinter. Create a new office in the Circle called First Artificer or something. Once completed you could have Merill or Anders could assist you or be your second in command. Afterwards You are part of a cermeony where you are recognized for your efforts. Again, allows for more party interaction. After a few years the office becomes larger and more people work there. this would pit you against Meredith and the Templars.

2. Warrior: You do work for the guards and Aveline or purchase yourself a comission in the Guards (this was done in Medieval times) and you use your party to do this. Such sub-plots could be the clearing of bandits of supply routes to Kirkwall. Creating a fort to protect the cleared area, howrever, this would involve speaking to the Dalish, finding a suitable site, creating a supply route, exploring/mapping the area, fend it off from attack. You can rise through the ranks and be knighted in a ceremony attended by your friends. Fenris and Aveline could take over the command of the new fort. After a few years, it becomes bigger and better. Again, allows for more party interaction. This could pit you agianst the Seneschal.

3. Rogue: You can find out a note in your basement which leads to a slaver guild within the city, you can fight totake it over or destroy it, if you take it over, you can get added income from it, but now you have to contend with your companions who are against slavery. This would allow for interesting dialog or once it is destroyed you then have to ake out other rival gangs and become the spymater of Kirkwall. Isabella and Varric could take this over.

Companions:
There are some that are done well, but again, you are suppsoed to be friends for seven years and not much is actually known about them.

1. Aveline was done well enough, but it was not really tied to anything, by making her a part of you character growth, it could be taken to a new level.

2. Merill: Other than the mirror and some dialog not much else is found, you can romance her but if this si someone you cared about, how about embarking on another quest to find out more about her such as finding out about her family.

As you can see much could have been added to tie everything together but unformatuntely this was not done. These were just some ideas I ahd in my head for about an hour and decided to write them down. I am not saying this is the best but if I could ahve come up with these ideas, surely DA2 could ahve had something similar. In addition, it would allow a better flow of meaningful quests that make sense to do instead of the current ones.

My main gripe was the fact they didn't listen to any of the earlier gripes about Fedex quests in DA:O and now we ahve them reappear and on top of that to the same copy/pasted area. There is nothing meaningful or tying anything together, just some filler between the main act plots. I mean you could just do the quests for the main play and still finish it.

It just seems to have been very rushed and it was not though out the way it should ahve been

Modifié par FubarCFSnafu, 30 mars 2011 - 10:55 .

[am_victory]

Anariel Theirin wrote...

 I did three full playthroughs on Origins, for example, and am now starting my fourth.  I've clocked over 200 hours into the game, and that's not counting any of the DLC or Awakenings.  Yet, I feel no urge to pick up DA2 again...at least, not yet.  This has more to do with personal preference, though.

To me, this is the wildest thing.  Pretty much what I'm seeing across the board is that people who were able to do multiple full playthroughs of Origins, they make it through DA2 once and feel like they're done.  Conversely, folks like me who slogged through Origins/Awakenings once (and maybe just to Lothering for the other Origins) but couldn't muster up the enthusiasm to do multiple plays - those people are doing multiple back-to-back playthroughs of DA2.  I'm honestly not real sure what the causation / correlation of that is, but I find it interesting.

Anariel Theirin wrote...

But
everyone has their particular likes and dislikes and what may be great
for one person is horrible for another.  That is what makes life
interesting!

Very true!  It's a little daunting being
on these forums where so many are of the mind that if someone
doesn't/does like something you feel the opposite about, that person is
just wrong and stupid.  It's one thing to defend your opinion, and quite
another to outright insult the opposing view!  Everyone is entitled to
feel what they feel about the game.  So, this may sound strange to say,
but thank you for the respectful reply.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Totally agree

[MoMan313]

I pretty much agree with you on Everything.. but Im a character junkie.. |D the only game where I would mind the characters gone and I would still play it would be NWN2! hu-ZAH!

Except for me.. the game cost me $70 with taxes and shipping with the preorder! 8D sig edition baby!

[Patriciachr34]

I like cliffhangers. I also like the change of pace of DA2. True. It's not epic, but it's not suppose to be. I will say that I am sorry about your freezes. They can be annoying.

My first play through also took me over 50 hours, but I like to take my time and enjoy the scenery. Plus, I played on hard which lengthens the combat times.

As for the repeated areas, for me it's a god send. I can get lost in a paper sack! So, I spend a lot less time trying to figure out where I'm going and actually get to play the game. However, I can understand how this would be an issue for those of you who are less "directionally challenged".

I will say that I am sorry that the game did not meet your expectations. Expressing that disappointment is necessary so the devs know what people do and don't like and can make improvements. So, thank you for your post.

[Potato Cat]

Capt. Klef wrote...

Hello everyone,

Well I finished the game on the PS3 and I"m extremely disappointed.

1.  The game was a hell of alot shorter than Dragon Age Origins

2.  the game ends on a cliff hanger with not much of an epic ending like in Origins.

3.  The entire game takes place in ONE city of Kirkwall without exploring the entire northern lands from Fereldan.  You know, how about a visit to Tevinter or Orlais, or how about Antiva.  Places like that where the story line could expand.

4.  The game constantly freezes up.

5.  You can't give away Hawks armor and weapons to other companions that could use it.  Unlike Origins, where you can.

Let see, what else?

6.  Now at the end, there is a war between the mages and the templars.  ThATS IT? THATS HOW YOU END IT. JUST LIKE THAT.  WTF?????????????????????

If I knew then, what I know now, I would of paid $25 for the disappointing game instead of $49. 

If you didn't play it yet, you'll see what I'm talking about.

• I spent much longer playing DA2 than DAO. You're just weird.
• OK, the ending could have been slightly more epic-ier, but I'm willing to bet they're saving up something real special for DA3.
• You're Champion of KIRKWALL. Not the Free Marches. I'm glad we're in Kirkwall most of the time. Makes me really want to save it.
• Never had that problem, but characters tend to bounce a bit in some cutscenes and Justice/Red Meredith's eyes are much lower down than where they should be.
• You can give away Hawke's weapons, just not armour. Changing armour is silly, they look wrong. Never changed Wynne's or Morrigan's armour, (except for when I get the Robes of Possession).
• Yes that is indeed how it ended. Orsino felt forced into becoming a Harvester and Meredith went crazy from the lyrium idol/sword. I thought it made the end game rather epic. Just not the actual ending.

[Potato Cat]

MY complaints are all just to do with the characters and dialogue. Personally, I hate the wheel, 'tis too constrictive and I want meatier conversations with the companions. I felt the romances rushed at times and due to the time leaps, not as engaging. I want a more Origins-y system in DA3.

[Mahtisonni]

I personally don't have much to complain about the story.

What really bugged me was that no matter what response you gave the result still ended pretty much the same way.

I could have let that slide, if at least the things I chose to do would do some impact.

1. Will sparing the magister's son help your mother reclaim the estate? No
2. Choosing to be a smuggler? That should hurt your status in the city right? Nope
3. Shouldn't at least saving the Viscounts son give some leverage in reclaiming the estate? lolno
4. How about clearing the bonepit? Shouldn't you at least gain some wealth and stature from owning 50% of a mine? Yes. Ok not really.

I could go on and on with the list.

[Aolbain]

Capt. Klef wrote...

kiss my a _ _

Oh thats real mature.

[Danjaru]

Beerfish wrote...

The game does have a point, several in fact.  You are a poor refuge you need to get back to being a rich citizen.  The city you live in is being threatened by  a foreign force, you need to stop them.  The whole political architecture of the thedas is about to go boom, you need to make a choice or two about what to do about it and as imporantly make choices about your companions.

No... You are a Poor Refuge turned Rich.. Then you end up being a Bystander that happens to be capable of fighting. It's as much Hawke's story as it is "Alienage Elf Number 3".

The Qunari would've been defeated without Hawke, only difference was that more Nobles would've died (Meredith and Orsino seemed to have that very much under control)

Hawke has no goals or ambitions and the story has no goal, it's just "dick around, wait for something to happen, kill stuff" and that filled with lots of meaningless sidequests just to fill out the time. Which is why I like to compare it to an MMO game but single player.

Yeah there is, it's called a city adventure (ala some of the old DnD modules).  I don't think anyone disputes that the rehashed areas were not a good thing at all but the limited location was not that big of a deal, they just needed to add more areas to the city environs.

I agree, if they'd made the city Really big with alot of areas, and the city changing throughout the years I wouldn't have many complaints. But they didn't do that either, they gave us a city barely bigger than Denerim in DAO.

It all depends on what you mean by having control over your party members?  Can you expand on that point?  As tou your last sentences, just as many people beef about that as being a bad thing as a good thing.  Other than the origins in DA you are just as railroaded in that game as any other if you want to put it that way,

Control of them as in gearing them as you please and speccing them however you want. It was awesome in DAO to be able to have Alistair as your tank in one playthrough, but as your dual wielding DPS the next while you were tank. Not pidgeon-holing them into pretty much having to do one certain thing.

Your only tank was Aveline (Fenris barely works and he was apparently too stupid to know how to hold a shield), one healer (Anders). Meaning you were pretty much forced to have these along unless you were a mage healer or tank.

Then not being able to costumize them, maybe giving Aveline that new awesome armor cause it's perfect for tanking cause "Bioware doesn't want her to look like that". Or even as an RP aspect (kinda did this in ME1) having your party look like a unit. Or even at end game visually see how powerful your party has become instead of you looking like a grizzled warrior but your Rogue friend still looks like she's about to entertain a bachelor party.

[am_victory]

Control of them as in gearing them as you please and speccing them however you want. It was awesome in DAO to be able to have Alistair as your tank in one playthrough, but as your dual wielding DPS the next while you were tank. Not pidgeon-holing them into pretty much having to do one certain thing.

Your only tank was Aveline (Fenris barely works and he was apparently too stupid to know how to hold a shield), one healer (Anders). Meaning you were pretty much forced to have these along unless you were a mage healer or tank.

Then not being able to costumize them, maybe giving Aveline that new awesome armor cause it's perfect for tanking cause "Bioware doesn't want her to look like that". Or even as an RP aspect (kinda did this in ME1) having your party look like a unit. Or even at end game visually see how powerful your party has become instead of you looking like a grizzled warrior but your Rogue friend still looks like she's about to entertain a bachelor party.

I'm using Fenris as a tank just fine, even with his two-handed spec.  I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure you could completely respec him with a Maker's Sigh potion if you wanted to.

Personally, I like not having to micromanage 4 pieces of armor for 8 characters (9 if you count the sibling), sorting through mountains of crap and comparing stats fifty ways to Sunday.  I guess if you're into number crunching that's a fun thing for you to do, but for me... not my cuppa.