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[cedgedc]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

So pretty much this thread is a plea to Bioware(Again) to make a ME MMO.

It's a plea for them to make an MMO that isn't geared to an audience "Ages 13 and up". As I have said a few times, What bioware does well, and what the MMO genre needs- is realism. Bioware's worlds are very believable.

When I gave DA:O a shot, I started into it thinking.. "Oh great, here's another high fantasy pile of crap, Elves dwarves and humans vs supreme evil, blah blah."

As I got into it though I saw actual darkness.. not just in the evil forces, but great corruption amongst the 'goodly races'. You see suffering, and not just like.. warriors dying on the battle field, but you see the economic toll etc, that comes from massive landwars.

The same thing with Mass Effect. I was expecting a bunch of 'Warp drive!'-this and 'I just can't do it captain!'-that. Instead you discover a plot ever more incidious than some evil dude going 'I will destroy all life just cause it's how I get down!'

They take the same old junk and make it real for the player. None of the MMO's on the market have made a real world that looks like it was dreamt up by adults who have actually seen what a real world is.

It's all done to be acceptible to the innocent minds of the children who need to believe that there is good and bad, and you can tell what's good cause it's pretty, and the evil stuff is ugly.

I say a Bioware original IP MMO because they can build a world the way no one else can. I say Mass Effect would be cool because the trilogy is ending and they are planning on doing something with the universe. This would be more fun than some crappy FPS or just more of the same, with a less epic plotline.

Modifié par cedgedc, 31 mars 2011 - 07:31 .

[cedgedc]

marshalleck wrote...

 I haven't played it but I've heard that it's pretty much a clone of WoW. It's not hard for me to imagine where they took shortcuts through the development process. 

I'm curious about the game since the reaction hasn't been entirely negative, but that still doesn't mean I'm interested enough to buy it. What can I say, after having been through uncountable games, trials, betas, and several catastrophic failures and studio closures over the last decade I'm an extremely tough sale. 

It's good. It's polished. If you enjoy massively scaled battles.. huge monster invaisions where waves of 100 monsters come pouring out of the wilderness, sacking towns and killing your faction and the enemyfaction alike all at random, anytime, anywhere- then you'll enjoy rift.

The only bad thing I can say about it is, it's not a game for adults who want an adult themed game. And by that I don't mean 'boobies!' I mean.. IF there's war, I want to see the misery, the refugees, the poverty, the things that actually come with wars.

Rift's biggest flaw is that they've created a world where everyone seems to be a legendary, stalwart hero. No shades of grey, no innocent bystanders or selfish vagabond types just in it for themselves.

If you want the most epic battles a game can offer in terms of size and scale, variety, spontenaity. If you want to feel like there is a SERIOUS invasion going on, and watch as platoons of monsters go tearing up the outposts- rift is your game.

If you want immersion into a world, it is not.

Modifié par cedgedc, 31 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[cedgedc]

termokanden wrote...

cedgedc wrote...

So since we know the story can't continue but the universe will live on, then wouldn't you like to explore that universe? Create your own adventure within it perhaps? (lame as that sounds lol.)

Oh I would, but I'm not going to be playing MMOs again any time soon. Got a new job coming up and I just don't want to play something I can't always just save and quit if I don't have time for some reason. I would love more single-player games though.

That's why I would be annoyed if they turned another one of my favorite games into an MMO.

Over the years I have played some MMOs, but I've had to simply quit on several occasions because real life just wasn't compatible with this. They are simply too time consuming if you don't want to be stuck in endgame doing easy instances. Probably doable for some, but it was difficult for me.

I'm in the same boat. All my friends are crying about how I'm not on rift with them every night lol. New job, I'm moving into a new apartment soon. RL happens.

That said, I would hope that if this hypothetical came to pass, they would try to rethink character growth within the MMO genre, and aim for something slightly more meaningful than getting to max level and getting lots of shinies.

[termokanden]

cedgedc wrote...

That said, I would hope that if this hypothetical came to pass, they would try to rethink character growth within the MMO genre, and aim for something slightly more meaningful than getting to max level and getting lots of shinies.

In that case, I wouldn't hesitate to play. But my experience with MMOs is exactly that it's all about endgame shinies. That pretty much just sucks when you can't commit to a raid schedule.

[cedgedc]

I couldn't agree more. However I think Bioware would be in the unique possition of having a game where a) it lends itself to having multiple factions. You could implement a lot of fun game play amongst those different factions (mercenary/slavers,any of the different races, alliance, cerberus, etc etc).

and 2) they have a universe that people desperately want to see more of. I don't know about you guys, but when I was playing Mass Effect, sure unlocking new abilities and new powers was fun, but I didn't care so much about getting a new gun of whatever sort. I wanted to see the next area.. I wanted to explore and move on with the story.

This wouldn't have to be a gear driven, raid grind-style mmo.

Modifié par cedgedc, 31 mars 2011 - 07:46 .

[marshalleck]

The problem is, MMOs in the past have done exactly what you're asking for but they're dead now. Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Star Wars Galaxies (pre-NGE), and Fallen Earth just to name some of the more popular ones off the top of my head. All allowed you to become a part of the world they were about; not necessarily a Legendery Hero of Prophesied Legend. And they're all now floundering or dead. What you want out of an MMO has been tried and tested and it just doesn't mesh with mainstream interest.

I think the only one that offers and rewards exploration and player ingenuity and which could be called a critical success is EVE.

Modifié par marshalleck, 31 mars 2011 - 08:54 .

[Whatever42]

SWTOR will be a great game. Its KOTOR 3, 4, 5 and 6 with multiplayer and a touch of mass effect.

Now will it be a great MMO, where people happily play it for years, grinding out the end game? /shrug

[StingingVelvet]

Oh God... to me it feels like I am losing all my awesome singleplayer RPGs to the crappy MMO-verse and you want MORE MMOs? NO NO NO NO NO.

[cedgedc]

marshalleck wrote...

The problem is, MMOs in the past have done exactly what you're asking for but they're dead now. Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Star Wars Galaxies (pre-NGE), and Fallen Earth just to name some of the more popular ones off the top of my head. All allowed you to become a part of the world they were about; not necessarily a Legendery Hero of Prophesied Legend. And they're all now floundering or dead. What you want out of an MMO has been tried and tested and it just doesn't mesh with mainstream interest.

I think the only one that offers and rewards exploration and player ingenuity and which could be called a critical success is EVE.

I disagree, and here's why. Firstly several of the titles you've mentioned are quite dated. At the time of Ultima Online, the measure for a VERY succesful MMO was roughly 200k subscriptions. There was a MUCH smaller market for subscription based online games. Now it's 1mil or go home.

Furthermore many people, just like me, have been playing your WoW, your WAR, Aion, etc for the last 5+ years. There is a terrific number of people who are DONE with that style mmo. This is why you have such a rush to  every new MMO release as it comes out- often followed by a huge drop out when people see it's the same old thing.

People are starved for something new. They love the community offered by an MMO, they love playing with others, being part of a guild, working toward group goals. Many of these people are ones who were never gamers before discovering whichever MMO (often wow) because the aspects of the more standard genre's never appealed to them.

You'll find yourself playing with mom's who never before touched a video game, but now play MMO's because it gives them a social outreach when they're forced to stay home and tend to a baby, or are going through pregnancy. People who have very demanding family lives that prevent them from getting out much, but afford them a couple quiet hours every so often in the evening. People you don't find playing an FPS or singe player title.

Also, just as often, these games come out in a state that for any other genre wouldn't make a passable beta. They are poorly managed, and poorly designed. Look at rift. People rave about the game, because finally here's 50 bucks that you don't feel like you just flushed down the toilet on a broken game.

Players feel like their faith has been rewarded by a company that for the first time, didn't steal their money for a half finished product. Yet many - even among those who love it!- will tell you that it's really just a newer version of the same old thing. I count myself among those.

Just because an MMO tried to do something and failed, doesn't mean their idea was bad or the concept sucked. Any game dev that takes on a project in this direction needs to have the right execution. The right dev team that is organized, and carries out realistic goals in practical fashion.

If it was just about the idea, then I would be a millionaire game designer, and i'd be posting this from my space yaht, with a monkey butler serving me champagne that I in turn pour over my entourage of naked women. Or something like that.

Hopefully Trion Worlds has set a new bar for what an MMO needs to be on release and we can come to expect more MMO's of that caliber/quality but that aren't geared toward an audience that isn't "Ages 13 and up"

[termokanden]

I think WoW succeeded by being friendly. No real penalties for getting killed, easy leveling and such. It isn't necessarily because WoW's endgame is the only way of doing it. I think the interface was also a big factor here, not because it was perfect to begin with, but because it is so customizable and there's pretty much an addon for whatever you can think of.

Hoarding purple items and showing off achievements isn't everyone's cup of tea though. There's just something too formulaic about WoW now. It's very professional, clinical. I lost interest for several reasons, but one of them is how incredibly stale it all got. I tried Cataclysm for fun as well, and although it has a lot of potentially great new content, I still feel like I've just seen it all before. So quickly people are back to posting achievements and grinding gear in instances. How interesting...

There's definitely room for something new. But with WoW's huge success I guess we're going to see a lot of (at least partial) clones. I won't even consider those.

[cedgedc]

termokanden wrote...

I think WoW succeeded by being friendly. No real penalties for getting killed, easy leveling and such. It isn't necessarily because WoW's endgame is the only way of doing it. I think the interface was also a big factor here, not because it was perfect to begin with, but because it is so customizable and there's pretty much an addon for whatever you can think of.

Hoarding purple items and showing off achievements isn't everyone's cup of tea though. There's just something too formulaic about WoW now. It's very professional, clinical. I lost interest for several reasons, but one of them is how incredibly stale it all got. I tried Cataclysm for fun as well, and although it has a lot of potentially great new content, I still feel like I've just seen it all before. So quickly people are back to posting achievements and grinding gear in instances. How interesting...

There's definitely room for something new. But with WoW's huge success I guess we're going to see a lot of (at least partial) clones. I won't even consider those.

Much agreed. Though I might add that WoW isn't succesful for any one reason, but a multitude. It's often refered to as a freak of nature, and with good reason. You've hit one of the nails on the head though. WoW made the MMO accessible to both the hardcore and the softcore gamer. You don't have to sell your soul to play, but you can if you choose to.

They also advertised so that it wouldn't be targetted at just the typical mmo crowd of the time, but rather anyone who would enjoy partaking in adventures in some crazy fantasy world.

And the last big one is simply Blizzard had a sterling silver reputation. They're just like you and me, they put their pants on one leg at a time, only once their pants are on- they make gold records!

You can make something new and innovative. You can make an MMO that isn't a wow clone, and easily enough. IT just has to focus on being accessible.

The Mass Effect series already has a solid developer reputation behind it, and the same fortune of coming off of a compelling trilogy with a large following, much as did WoW after the Warcraft trilogy.

There is no reason to suspect that if executed well, Bioware couldn't have a great deal of success.

[M-Sinistrari]

To sum it up why a ME MMO would be a bad idea, just remember Barrens chat in WoW.

[cedgedc]

I might add that those are just the top 3 that came to mind. There's probably a list a mile long of reasons why WoW is successful and I wouldn't presume to know half of them.

[cedgedc]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

To sum it up why a ME MMO would be a bad idea, just remember Barrens chat in WoW.

I remember Barrens chat in wow like.. 5 years ago. Then I learned how to do /leave1 and that ended that forever more.

Also most in favor, are pushing for a game with an ESRB rating of M for this game which would help keep atleast a chunk of the teenagers who would have to convince their parents to shell out for a monthly fee, out of the game.

[Whatever42]

Why would anyone leave barren's chat? Ok, at times the constant stream of Chuck Norris and anal jokes made you want to scream but sometimes there were some really messed up conversations there that were quite interesting.

[Pacifien]

So there seem to be two threads ongoing about multiplayer in respect to Mass Effect, and now there will be one thread. Please discuss multiplayer as it relates to Mass Effect in the linked thread.