151 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Now your'e showing your true, hateful, colors.

Hateful?  No.  They're simply the largest demographic.  And honestly, I have no idea why you are being so antagonistic today.

Not that I should talk, since I called that one guy a douchebag, but hey, I tend to get that way when people get all up in my rights as an individual and, to a lesser degree, a consumer.  You should see how I get when people say I shouldn't be allowed to get married or vote.  Boy, I should work on that...

You need those white American males on your side, kid.

Yes, but marketing to them exclusively is a pretty bad move.  I mean, honestly, would you rather make $90 or $100?

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You should see how I get when people say I shouldn't be allowed to get married or vote.

I've never heard of anyone saying gays shouldn't have the right to vote. I'm on the fence about the marriage issue. I might support it, but not any tax breaks. We encourage marriage because it helps create the foundation of the next generation (of tax payers). Homosexuals don't typically have children and they aren't an ideal choice as adoptive parents either. So if they don't reproduce there is no reason to provide them any incentive.

Quotemining strikes again!

Anyway, this sh*t is exclusively political, so we either drop it now or bring down the banhammer.  Suffice to say I don't agree with you for several reasons and am personally offended by your comment.

[brfritos]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You should see how I get when people say I shouldn't be allowed to get married or vote.

I've never heard of anyone saying gays shouldn't have the right to vote. I'm on the fence about the marriage issue. I might support it, but not any tax breaks. We encourage marriage because it helps create the foundation of the next generation (of tax payers). Homosexuals don't typically have children and they aren't an ideal choice as adoptive parents either. So if they don't reproduce there is no reason to provide them any incentive.

I shouldn't, but I will: gay people are not the ideal choice as adoptive parents for what reason? Because they are gay?
Also, gay people born from "normal society's relationships", wich means this parents are better suited than them?

Amazing!!! 

Modifié par brfritos, 31 mars 2011 - 01:35 .

[Eromenos]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm curious as to how you'd feel about a "turn all love interests on" flag that the player could set? It seems... the sanest compromise at this point. Heck, you could supplement it with a "turn all love interests off" flag that would let people who don't want to be hit on by anyone play comfortably.

I used to think of this as a decent compromise. But no more. Ah...no offense...this to me would be kind of lazy, and also self-defeating on BioWare's part. The romances are major content and commitments, regardless of how decent or how pathetic they turn out.

I'll use Jack and Gianna as examples. I am a gay male. I like them both. I don't want romance or sex with them, and I'm serious when I get to say so to Jack. Yet the game makes both Jack and male Shepard assume that he is stupidly toying with her. That's lazy BS right there, to assume that any male who goes the distance of liking her and helping her would be trying to "get with her" as well. It is not a stretch to assume this coming from Jack's POV, but it does go too far in cementing that assumption about us. As for Gianna, she hits on me if I import a paragon save unless I alter it first to having had romance with Kaidan via Gibbed's editor.

Given the "default" behavior that a gay Shepard might follow in the retail package, there is nothing at all going for us.

In both such cases there isn't any way for us to back out or to state clear letdowns for them. Mean or nice. If the writers weren't so lazy or homophobic...gods...then they could at least recycle Mark Meer's unused line from ME1 about only liking men.

Ah...that's my long way of saying how it wouldn't be a terrible thing to "force" NPC's interests on us from many directions so long as we're given choices in how to deal with them. It would be wonderful, in fact. Some will hit on us, some will not. We should be able to have an actual say in determining how things do or do not progress.

People need to just deal with it. Those situations in ME2 illustrate how offended I get, but I have good reasons to be offended because these "role-playing" games try to cast me as something I'm not and aggressively so. Whereas the homophobic people who complain about getting hit on by same-sex npcs are the ones who have no leg to stand on, because their choices are never diminished. We should all be able to handle a DA2 situation. I don't think we should make apologies to placate those who think that giving everybody something important is somehow giving everybody less.

Modifié par Eromenos, 31 mars 2011 - 01:35 .

[rvgifford]

Eromenos wrote...

rvgifford wrote...

Do it if it makes sense within the story, don't force it to appease or
for the sake of 'inclusiveness'. ME3 is the finale of an amazing
trilogy. Either you've loved it up until this point or you haven't and
throwing in an emphasis on alternate sexuality without substantial and
well though out story reasoning just seems a little meh.

But if it goes in, for the love of all that is organic don't go overboard with
it and please avoid the bad stereotypes and cliches.

What I'm interpreting is...it's all right to "forcibly exclude."

Why? Why is it that making greater efforts to include queer gamers gets treated as a negative impact on ME?

It should not have to "fit the story." That old excuse from BioWare itself is bull.

I'm reading a lot of platitudes about restricting queerness to the sidelines.

You're reading into things there. That wasn't the point at all. I could read into your statement as meaning, "If I don't get what I want I'm being forcibly excluded." That's not what you meant, at least I don't think. Then when you say it should not have to fit the story, that could be interpreted as, "every story ever to be told should include, despite context and despite plot bi and or homesexual content." Again, I'm astute enough to believe you don't mean that. Nowhere is it stated I want it restricted. I've read some of your other posts and you're a very defensive person. While I am hetero and could pretend to understand exactly what it is to be a non-hetero in a less than accepting world, I can't, except to say it almost assuredly has been difficult and or obnoxious having to cope with all the hostility, hate, suspicion and homophobia that exists today. Sorry for you there, but that's not me.

I  enjoyed Zevran in DA:O while hating the cliche that he represented. I even appreciated the inclusion of such options in DA2 but feel they got carried away there with the 'everyone is bi' route. I want to enjoy Mass Effect as it culminates with ME3. I don't care what they include as long as it doesn't take away from the awesome experience it has been so far and the amazing finale. At the same time I don't want it to turn into a 30-hour gay porno to appease whomever it would appease - obviously I'm engaging in hyperbole of metaphor here.

In real life varying sexual orientations exist. They should exist in games like this. While I concur with a later post in this thread where you mention people are not 100% gay or straight (the Kinsey Reports are an interesting read on this very idea) there are people who identify as straight, gay, and bi in life. That doesn't mean I want every character to be romanceable. Heck, I'm disappointed there hasn't been a strictly gay character who turns down straight characters because they just don't swing that way. I don't want to see the every romance option is bi approach as evidenced in DA2, either. If it's that or having every romance be gay only as your preference we'll have to agree to disagree.

Modifié par rvgifford, 31 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[Praetor Knight]

And why not add no achievements for any romance option. So drop the Paramour stuff for ME3.

Edit: Decided to look up the definition of Paramour.

Interesting: http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/paramour
http://dictionary.re...browse/paramour
http://www.merriam-w...=0&t=1301535805

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 31 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[Zkyire]

Zevran was hardly a cliché. He grew up in a ****house. That's bound to have an influence on how easy he is.

[Eromenos]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

So I guess only white American males should play this game, huh?

Now your'e showing your true, hateful, colors.

You need those white American males on your side, kid.

From this you definitely mean, "Play by (straight) white American (Christian) males' rules."

There isn't a one living human in this world that benefits in any way from such an exceedingly patronizing and limited approach. Including straight white American Christian males.

[rvgifford]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Zevran was hardly a cliché. He grew up in a ****house. That's bound to have an influence on how easy he is.

Touche. I'm mostly recalling a post by someone who claimed to be gay and called him a horrible stereotype/cliche and a poor representation or something along those lines. But yeah, I completely spaced on his background. Still, I actually liked Zev, even when he creeped me out just a little.

[Eromenos]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

People on this forum care and argue about the romances more then anything else in this forum.


Either some of had a bad real-life relationships, or some of you are just zealously passionate about pixelated characters.

It's a little ridiculous. Can we complile on these kind of threads into one?

Hmmm. Your own findings seem to underscore the motivations you have in coming here to defend these pixels "as is."

[Zkyire]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

So I guess only white American males should play this game, huh?

Now your'e showing your true, hateful, colors.

You need those white American males on your side, kid.

Given that a huge portion of the profits comes from Europe, and Europe is much more accepting of homosexuality than the US.. why not cater to us Europeans?

Let me put this in perspective.

Every year, the US has the Super Bowl. A sporting event.

Every year, Europe has the Eurovision Song Contest.

That's the difference between the two sides of the atlantic right there.


(EDIT: Did I just imply that Europe is more accepting of gays because we have a giant singing/dancing contest each year? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie])

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 31 mars 2011 - 01:54 .

[Silmane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You should see how I get when people say I shouldn't be allowed to get married or vote.

I've never heard of anyone saying gays shouldn't have the right to vote. I'm on the fence about the marriage issue. I might support it, but not any tax breaks. We encourage marriage because it helps create the foundation of the next generation (of tax payers). Homosexuals don't typically have children and they aren't an ideal choice as adoptive parents either. So if they don't reproduce there is no reason to provide them any incentive.

Ohboyherewego

*Grabs popcorn*

[rvgifford]

Saphra Deden wrote...
I've never heard of anyone saying gays shouldn't have the right to vote. I'm on the fence about the marriage issue. I might support it, but not any tax breaks. We encourage marriage because it helps create the foundation of the next generation (of tax payers). Homosexuals don't typically have children and they aren't an ideal choice as adoptive parents either. So if they don't reproduce there is no reason to provide them any incentive.

Bwuh? So many things to say . . . getting late, getting tired.

Who is the we that encourages marriage because of the above idea? You? Christians? The Government of a specific country? Everyone? And why aren't they an ideal choice? I'm straight and grew up with a very messed up heterosexual set of parents. They were in no way ideal parents. Being ideal parents of a foster variety has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality unless you as a person place a negative moralistic spin on homosexuality. If that is your logic, there's obviously no point in going into the many fallacies you seem to be operating under.

Ugh. Really, please stop there and keep this from becoming a thread that gets locked down as both sides become aggravated over direct attacks on sexuality. The thread is about ME3 and including bi or homosexual relationship opportunities, not political beliefs about real life sexual orientation.

Edit: Sorry, should hit the sack. Typoes and poorly worded sentences.

Modifié par rvgifford, 31 mars 2011 - 02:12 .

[StarGateGod]

Silmane wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You should see how I get when people say I shouldn't be allowed to get married or vote.

I've never heard of anyone saying gays shouldn't have the right to vote. I'm on the fence about the marriage issue. I might support it, but not any tax breaks. We encourage marriage because it helps create the foundation of the next generation (of tax payers). Homosexuals don't typically have children and they aren't an ideal choice as adoptive parents either. So if they don't reproduce there is no reason to provide them any incentive.

Ohboyherewego

*Grabs popcorn*

i think we should take away woman right to vote, what have they done that really warrants the need to vote?
gays can be drafted so they should be able to vote and should be able to get married, if only to ****** off all the retarded christians

[Silmane]

StarGateGod wrote...

Silmane wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You should see how I get when people say I shouldn't be allowed to get married or vote.

I've never heard of anyone saying gays shouldn't have the right to vote. I'm on the fence about the marriage issue. I might support it, but not any tax breaks. We encourage marriage because it helps create the foundation of the next generation (of tax payers). Homosexuals don't typically have children and they aren't an ideal choice as adoptive parents either. So if they don't reproduce there is no reason to provide them any incentive.

Ohboyherewego

*Grabs popcorn*

i think we should take away woman right to vote, what have they done that really warrants the need to vote?
gays can be drafted so they should be able to vote and should be able to get married, if only to ****** off all the retarded christians

You already know what I'm gonna say before I'm gonna say it, which is why you made this post to bait me on it. Aint happenin, brah. 

[Coach]

Stay on target, friends.

We were talking about ME3 needing to have bisexual / homosexual opportunities for more fulfilling story archs. And I would like to remind Bioware that the best place to start would be with Kaidan Alenko. If you're having trouble coming up with a convincing story arch at the studio, just let me know and I'll fly into Canada to help out a bit, free of charge.

[Agamo45]

No thank you. Keep the gay out of my game.

Modifié par Agamo45, 31 mars 2011 - 02:11 .

[dleo95]

personally and i think im speaking for a lot of people i wouldnt want a gay man saving my world.... no offense to gays