196 réponses à ce sujet

[Firky]

The BG2 mod is great, but it did highlight for me just how far DA:O actually is away from Baldur's Gate, not close.

@Mantaal I never played The Dark Dimension, but why does it look so much like Ultima IV, with a slightly different UI?

Well, I'm just feeling the need to check in as an old school RPG fan who liked DAII, anyway, and am happy with its direction.

[wowpwnslol]

I prefer old school RPGs. Personally, I think Origins should have never made it to consoles. The whiny console kiddie crowd whined and cried about everything until DA2 became consolized, dumbed down action RPG for 15 year olds.

I only hope Blizzard won't give in and never releases Diablo 3 for consoles. Thankfully they have plenty of money to keep the console plague away from true gamers.

[daemon1129]

Mantaal wrote...

So i really dont understand this thread..
You think that DA2 isnt an Oldschool RPG and you like it because its something new and Fresh?
How about Action Games with RPG Elements? Diablo1 really is there for awile now

But i dont care if its Oldschool RPG or an Oldschool Action-RPG a Crap game is just a crap game.

Btw when i think about it i need to consider myselve as an Oldschool RPG player. Since these where the first RPGs i played

The Dark Dimension on C64 1987



And Amberstar on Amiga  1992

I don't think DA2 is new or fresh, and I don't like this game at all.  Also when I mention modern action rpgs, I mean the type where you press a button, your character attacks.  Diabo is an action rpg, but not modern because its 2D.  When I say modern I mean games like two worlds, Gothic, Risen and such.  I think all the european rpgs with international release that I know of are modern action rpgs.  DA2 was in the middle. You don't exactly mash 1 button to attack in the way of an action game, but don't really need to have much tactical decisions to make.  I really think DA2's combat really fail to be anything but bad.   Come to think of it, for those that plays X Hero Siege in Warcraft 3 would know what I mean.  It's no where near as cool looking as real action games, and its just simple spam spells and attack.  You drink potions to recover health and mana, then you spam again.  You don't need much thought on what spell to use, since most of damn do damage anyways.

[Slayer299]

Firky wrote...

The BG2 mod is great, but it did highlight for me just how far DA:O actually is away from Baldur's Gate, not close.

I actually did like DAO for its differences from BG2, but i did feel it was a nice step backwards toward that style that I miss.

[Slayer299]

neppakyo wrote...
Hehe yeah. I lost my original BG2 I'm guessing the future module will require BG2, for all the dialogue perhaps? I haven't really read in-depth, just browsed.

Be really cool if/when they pull it off.

True, and I still have my original disks and box for both BG's, now that is both shamlessly nerdy and carbon dating me:whistle:

[Firky]

^ It certainly referenced a more old school model. I did like that about DA:O too.

Where has Mantaal gone? I'm now very interested in The Dark Dimension. I can't find out any info about it. I even chased that screenshot back to a German website, and a video.



Now I'm intrigued. What is this game?

[Sacred_Fantasy]

daemon1129 wrote...
How many of you wanted DA2 to be more like the old times, and how many enjoy the new direction Dragon Age is going?

Modern RPG isn't appropriate to be compared with old times classics with the exception of The Elder Scrolls. Modern RPG have long lost it's direction ever since Final Fantasy 7 became popular.. Most modern RPG want to tell you their stories instead of allowing you to share your stories with others. Hence, character creation is less and less important.

Predefined protagonist takes over player character. Instead of making you feel as if you are the hero, they forced you to role-play their characters which are always discouraging because no matter how good and hansome predefined characters are like Squall FF 7 Cloud Strife, Sephiroth and Tifa Lochart, nothing can be more personal than the avatar that you create to represent yourself. Sure it can be fun to become someone else. No doubt about it. But sometime... you just feel you need to be more active than watching other people playing hero.

To me, the reason to role-play a fantasy character is to escape myself from reality. To do things which I can never do in real life. If I don't want to bring myself to become a hero, than I might as well watch movie or reading novel which is far cheaper. Also, there're a lot of pure and simple adventure games with strong story element.  Role-playing is not about novel or movie. Nor about numbers. It's about your character. The statistic is meant to build your character and  it's about how you act given to certain condition base on your choices. How do you shape the story is entirely up to you. This is what BioWare told me about becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. Do they give me that choices? Do most of modern RPG allow me to live the avatar that could bring myself to be personally and emotionally involved without forcing me to do so?

If shooting game isn't about blowing people's head with guns, things will always go wrong. If fighting games isn't about fighting technique, speed and agility, things will alway go wrong. If novel, movie and comics isn't about story but articles of peer review scientific bullcrap, things will always go wrong. Until RPG return to the realm of role-playing fantasy character where it's belong, things will always go wrong.

Just my 2 cent.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 31 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[johook213]

I don't know how to label myself.... back in the 1980s I actually played pen and paper D&D 2nd edition and TSR's Marvel Super Heroes with my older cousin and his friends. This introduced me to RPGs... and I had fun.

Then the early 90s came along and I discovered Ultima 6 and Ultima 7 for the PC, and Final Fantasy 4 and 6 (2 and 3 on the SNES.) Now I was introduced to CRPGs and JRPGs. I was hooked. I'm still a big FF fan... my favorites being FF9 and FF12... and i've been playing the MMORPG Final Fantasy XI since 2004. I also loved the Baldur's Gate series (PC version)... and Dragon Age: Origins I fell in love with... I liked DA:O more than I did Baldur's Gate 2!

I didn't like Ultima 8 or Ultima 9 (the Ultima series really did go to crap after Ultima 7 part 2)... and I also tried Morrowind and found it to be horrible. It was an ugly and boring game, and the NPCs seemed like robots with repeated/shared dialogue. Diablo was shallow and boring to me.  WoW way too cartoony.  Fable I didn't care for... it seemed cartoony to me, and I didn't like any of the NWN games. I hate FPS so Mass Effect wasn't for me.... and I also am not a Star Wars fan... so I didn't even touch those games. lol.

I love Dragon Age II =)

What kind of RPG fan am I? I dunno. lol

Modifié par johook213, 31 mars 2011 - 04:08 .

[88mphSlayer]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I prefer old school RPGs. Personally, I think Origins should have never made it to consoles. The whiny console kiddie crowd whined and cried about everything until DA2 became consolized, dumbed down action RPG for 15 year olds.

I only hope Blizzard won't give in and never releases Diablo 3 for consoles. Thankfully they have plenty of money to keep the console plague away from true gamers.

Diablo 3 is already dumbed down without a console port planned

also Torchlight worked on a gamepad and sold really well... it's almost inevitable that Diablo 3 will come to consoles...

[daemon1129]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...
How many of you wanted DA2 to be more like the old times, and how many enjoy the new direction Dragon Age is going?

Modern RPG isn't appropriate to be compared with old times classics with the exception of The Elder Scrolls. Modern RPG have long lost it's direction ever since Final Fantasy 7 became popular.. Most modern RPG want to tell you their stories instead of allowing you to share your stories with others. Hence, character creation is less and less important.

Predefined protagonist takes over player character. Instead of making you feel as if you are the hero, they forced you to role-play their characters which are always discouraging because no matter how good and hansome predefined characters are like Squall FF 7 Cloud Strife, Sephiroth and Tifa Lochart, nothing can be more personal than the avatar that you create to represent yourself. Sure it can be fun to become someone else. No doubt about it. But sometime... you just feel you need to be more active than watching other people playing hero.

To me, the reason to role-play a fantasy character is to escape myself from reality. To do things which I can never do in real life. If I don't want to bring myself to become a hero, than I might as well watch movie or reading novel which is far cheaper. Also, there're a lot of pure and simple adventure games with strong story element.  Role-playing is not about novel or movie. Nor about numbers. It's about your character. The statistic is meant to build your character and  it's about how you act given to certain condition base on your choices. How do you shape the story is entirely up to you. This is what BioWare told me about becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. Do they give me that choices? Do most of modern RPG allow me to live the avatar that could bring myself to be personally and emotionally involved without forcing me to do so?

If shooting game isn't about blowing people's head with guns, things will always go wrong. If fighting games isn't about fighting technique, speed and agility, things will alway go wrong. If novel, movie and comics isn't about story but articles of peer review scientific bullcrap, things will always go wrong. Until RPG return to the realm of role-playing fantasy character where it's belong, things will always go wrong.

Just my 2 cent.

I like what you said about "to escape myself from reality".  But I also think there are enough room for at least 2 types of RPGs nowadays.  One where you have a strong story to play through, and you have another that you can really dive into the world as one of the characters.  To me, no RPG have really bring me any of those and the last rpg I really put my time into was FF XII.  The Last Remnant actually have me come back to it once in a while because of grinding and leveling that most single player games nowdays no longer have. 

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

riccaborto wrote...

I am a GOOD GAMES fan... no matter "old" or "new" school...

Agreed. I loved Origins but felt DA2 left a lot to be desired.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

daemon1129 wrote...
I like what you said about "to escape myself from reality".  But I also think there are enough room for at least 2 types of RPGs nowadays.  One where you have a strong story to play through, and you have another that you can really dive into the world as one of the characters.  To me, no RPG have really bring me any of those and the last rpg I really put my time into was FF XII.  The Last Remnant actually have me come back to it once in a while because of grinding and leveling that most single player games nowdays no longer have. 

I usually don't have much problem diving into the world with classics RPG probably due to technology limitation around that time where we have to depend solely on our imagination and creativity to see beyond blocky graphics. Hahaha.

Anyway, things were so much different and engaging back then compare to now. 

One of my favorite all time buggy classic RPG. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

I've finished Baldur's Gate and its sequel half a dozen times each, which I guess makes me pretty hardcore by some arbitrary standards. I preferred the combat in DAII to the combat in DAO, and I found it much more tactically satisfying. I played on Nightmare from the beginning and hit pause every three seconds or so, so I'm not really feeling the 'dumbed down' accusations.

[Andraste_Reborn]

One of my favorite all time buggy classic RPG.

OMG Realms of Arkania!!!!

Blade of Destiny was my first ever CRPG, the start of a (so far) lifetime addiction.

[Firky]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Realms of Arkania?

(I know I'm being OT, but I CANNOT resist guessing games when people post screenshots of classic games.)

Oh no! Ninja'd.


@Andrastee - do you know what that Dark Dimension game is up the page a bit? I'm stumped on that one. It looks like some kind of modified, German Ultima IV.

Modifié par Firky, 31 mars 2011 - 04:33 .

[CaimDark]

I had very low expectations for DA2. All that talk of "streamlining" and making the game "accessible to a wider audience" made me half-expect a medieval cross between Call of Duty and Farmville. So I was pleasantly surprised with the end game. It is far from a masterpiece and the rushed development shows all over, but it's a good game nonetheless. So to answer the original question: I liked the direction DA2 TRIED to go, but the execution was somewhat lackluster.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Firky wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Realms of Arkania?

(I know I'm being OT, but I CANNOT resist guessing games when people post screenshots of classic games.)

Oh no! Ninja'd.


@Andrastee - do you know what that Dark Dimension game is up the page a bit? I'm stumped on that one. It looks like some kind of modified, German Ultima IV.

Yes it's Realm of Arkania: Star Trail. It's tactical turn based combat. I love the background music. Perfectly match the environment. The disease factor from combat is realistic making every items you gather has it's used for medicine. I played all Realm of Arkania series including Blade of Destiny and Shadows over Riva.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 31 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

Oh no! Ninja'd.

Heh. There are always more Arkania fans around here than I expect. After I finish my current run of DAII, I'm going back to trying to acquire a copy of the English version of River of Time. Apparently it got released in Belgium.

@Andrastee - do you know what that Dark Dimension game is up the page a bit? I'm stumped on that one. It looks like some kind of modified, German Ultima IV.

Afraid not. I agree it looks awfully familiar, though.

[lltoon]

I don't really care if they change the style of RPG gaming completely.

The only thing that bothers me is lazy implementation, lazy programming, lazy writing and absolute denial that their product is anything than perfect while charging $60 or more for it.

Modifié par lltoon, 31 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[Buffy-Summers]

I like all types of games from puzzles, to shooters to action games

However, if you want to make a game make it

Dont make 3 games types and hope you get all 3 game fans so you make tons of money

RPGers dont want RTS elements

RTSers dont want shooter elements

Shooters just want to kill stufff rarrr

Make a game, make it one type

Dont make a hybrid action rpg game and expect those that like RPGs to accept it just because you think RPGs are dying

[Kane-Corr]

I guess I'm more of a sucker for a great story, etc. when it comes to games...

[88mphSlayer]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I like all types of games from puzzles, to shooters to action games

However, if you want to make a game make it

Dont make 3 games types and hope you get all 3 game fans so you make tons of money

RPGers dont want RTS elements

RTSers dont want shooter elements

Shooters just want to kill stufff rarrr

Make a game, make it one type

Dont make a hybrid action rpg game and expect those that like RPGs to accept it just because you think RPGs are dying

Valkyria Chronicles is a 3rd person shooter/role playing/hybrid real-time-turn-based/strategy game

i thought it worked pretty well, apparently the japanese are better at making hybrid games

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 31 mars 2011 - 06:00 .

[Critical Miss]

I love all types of rpgs. If they entertain me with a good story, decent combat etc, I'm happy. I do miss 2D rpgs though. I suppose there isn't an audience for them anymore. I'm slowly going through Drakensang at the moment, and it sort of has a 2D feel about it.

[pwnjuicesucka]

daemon1129 wrote...

  Now that most of us should have beaten the game by now, clearly DA2 is more of a mainstreamed, streamlined, action RPG that seems to be everywhere nowadays. 

I don´t want this to some how come off as rude but what mainstream action RPGs are everywhere these days?  I want to play them.  

Anyway I can´t agree on the Art Style I like it alot and has given Dragon Age it´s own identity. My opinion anyway and I also believe that DA2 having a lack of tactics is very wrong as well but once again just my opinion. 

And when we say old school / hardcore RPG what exactly does that entail? Might and Magic? Ultima? Final Fantasy 1?  Turn Based? Overhead view?  It just seems that old school hardcore RPG covers so much ground that it really just means ¨an RPG I liked with older gameplay mechanics¨ which would mean anyone that has ever played and enjoyed any RPG is an old school hardcore RPG fan.  

[hangmans tree]

Mantaal wrote...

So i really dont understand this thread..
You think that DA2 isnt an Oldschool RPG and you like it because its something new and Fresh?

Amberstar on Amiga  1992

Sheeet,
it almost looks like DA2, but with more, like, customization and all that jazz...