196 réponses à ce sujet

[88mphSlayer]

abaris wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

ehm... rfactor and iracing anybody?

But how did rfactor start out? It was a niche product. Still is. Major companies don't touch things like that anymore.

so only major companies can create relevant niche products?

[abaris]

88mphSlayer wrote...

so only major companies can create relevant niche products?

Nope, but the major companies only cater to the lowest common denominator nowadays. Which is the guy who finds opening a beer bottle kind of complicated.

[Wyndham711]

I love high quality RPGs and I love to roleplay in them, that's it. I do take that desire seriously, but I don't consider myself to be narrowly hard core in that I'd somehow only accept DnD or something like that. In fact I don't even think DnD is a really good fit for CRPGs to begin with. It is in fact the one thing I most disliked in the Baldur's Gate games.

[88mphSlayer]

abaris wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

so only major companies can create relevant niche products?

Nope, but the major companies only cater to the lowest common denominator nowadays. Which is the guy who finds opening a beer bottle kind of complicated.

so? very few of the niche titles people praise here as classics were made by the major companies at their time either, even fewer were financially successful

[CerealWar]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I prefer depth of gameplay to flash graphics.

I prefer text to voiced conversations.

I prefer complex character building systems that incorporate non comabt skills and make them important to the game.

I don't really like mini maps with quest markers. I would prefer the player have to acquire a map from a cartographer and utilize the map like one would in real life (ie surveying landscapes etc.). I prefer for NPC's to conversate with me and explain how to reach a place rather than a magical location appearing on a GPS device.

I prefer dungeons that you can actually get lost in and maybe have to reload to a previous save if you failed to find your way out (then you just try again and improve your strategy).

I prefer dungeons that you need to really plan to enter prior to entering them because you really don't want to run out of resources half way in.

I prefer games where NPC's react to you being violent around them.

I prefer games where NPC's do things that might not have anything to do with the player.

I prefer games where choosing sides actually leads to definitive shifts in the game (ie certain pathways will become absolutely closed to you depending upon the choices you make.)

I prefer when games adhere to their own lore all the way down to gameplay. If something is not supposed to happen in the lore of the gameworld I don't think it should happen in gameplay of the gameworld. Lore and gameplay should form a cohesive whole.

I prefer games where the NPC/Enemies etc. follow the same rules as the player character.

I prefer games that have a detailed documentation of their rule systems so that i as a player can read into them and really understand the numbers behind the scenes.

I prefer a more simulation based gameplay approach to a more acade like gameplay approach. Stabbing people with knives/swords is extreme enough, it doesn't really need to be 'spiced' up.

----

None of this means I don't like the new style of games I would just prefer a different style.

The original Bard's Tale.

[Tommy6860]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I love high quality RPGs and I love to roleplay in them, that's it. I do take that desire seriously, but I don't consider myself to be narrowly hard core in that I'd somehow only accept DnD or something like that. In fact I don't even think DnD is a really good fit for CRPGs to begin with. It is in fact the one thing I most disliked in the Baldur's Gate games.

BG was more closely related to be a CRPG than anything in recent memory. I am not hardcore either and I am flexible, as long as the RPG has its root elements, like character interaction and development. Making it better means having an evolving deep storyline and multiple playable characters that also develop along . Nothing can touch the "old school" CRPG like D&D, since there isn't a game that can play up to the endless possibilities of one's own thinking. Maybe we are all spoiled by thinking less, and having others bring it to our eyes and think it for us.

[Canadish]

20 years old here.
My first step into Western RPGs was Mass Effect, which I got on the recommendation of a friend. I found it very hard to get into, having just come off of a diet of Final Fantasy 12 and Gears of War.
Gave up for a month. Came back to it because I enjoyed the atmosphere and didnt want to waste 40 quid.
After that? I played the crap out of it. Got a good 60 hours on my first run through, did most of the side quests, I was using weapon mods to suit my needs and getting right into the role of Shepard. Loved it to bits. Probably still my 3rd favorite game. Couldnt wait for number 2.

Then, some years later, the same friend mentions this "Dragon Age" game. Told me it was Mass Effect meets Lord of the Rings by the same developer. I bought it that day, having never seen a trailer or a review.
I was enlightened. The game was deeper then any I've played, had a solid 80 hours on my first run through (and the different Origins added way more content, I went through another 2 full times). The characters were even more fleshed out then my beloved Mass Effect, more interesting. The world was one of interesting Grey morality and interesting antagonists. The choices I had were great! The different stories that came out of the game when me and my friends all got together to discuss it were hilarious! One of them didnt even know Wynne was a companion, he killed her to make Morrigan happy. Hearing what everyone did at the end was great to, because all our characters ended up utterly different.
It's my favorite game. Well, 2nd. Shadow of the Colossus will never be topped. Ever.

Then along came Mass Effect 2. And I loved it. Truly. But there was a niggling feeling that something was wrong. I missed the Mako. I missed the extensive leveling up system. I missed the little Scanner thing every time I got on the ship. I missed the Weapon mods. I worked my ass off to figure that out, and now your getting rid of it?! FUUUUUUUUUUU-
It was a great game, but it lacked the little touches that Mass Effect 1 had.
And the Main Plot was garbage. Rail-roaded into working for Cerberus!? Really?
And the lack of an Antagonist was a shame as well. Saren was a great Rival.

Then I heard about this old school game called Baldur's Gate. My Uncle got me it for my birthday.
Hmm, okay I wonder how this will go-
*dies from the first wolf outside CandleKeep*
....


So, I gave up on that for a while.

Anyway, cut to this last month. I was able to get my hands on a "sample" copy of Dragon Age 2, after hearing ALOT of bad things in the press. It was like hearing all things I didnt like about Mass Effect 2 being exaggerated even further.
So I wanted to try the game out before handing over any money.
I was utterly Crushed. I found it to be a bland, soulless experience.
The game made fun of Origins for being Brown.
If thats the case, DA2 is GREY. Grey boxy walls. Grey Dirt. Grey Sky. Grey Armour.
Getting off topic....needless to say I hated it. The depth I learned to love was gone. The characters were just Strawmen. Ideas, not fully fleshed out.

Now going through Baldur's gate again. Going to finish it this time. I'm making good progress, and you know what? I'm loving it. The graphics are dated, sure, but the atmosphere is really engrossing, and I cant tear myself away now!
Which really contrasts with DA2 sharply. Its kinda sad.
So yeah, I guess my relationship with Bioware is in some kind of weird reverse. I started off as the COD style "BRAH" gamer I now hate, but now defend the old school style, because I enjoy it more. Go figure.

[AkiKishi]

Not suprised Origns combat system is just like FFXII.

[Tommy6860]

Canadish wrote...
SNIPPED.

If you played had ME
as deeply as you say you did, then had played as deeply ME2 as you
seemingly didn't, you would have found the story followed just fine and that Cerberus fit into the scheme of it all. If you had the deepest possible chat in your encounter with Liara on Illium, she would have revealed quite a bit about Cerberus, and the tie-in back to ME becomes richer..  ME was definitely the better story as ME2 was more about building your companions and recruiting for the end mission, than was the overall stroyline, but that absolute end scene before the credits roll, lends well to ME2 being a good game when reflecting back on ME

[Canadish]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Canadish wrote...
SNIPPED.

If you played had ME
as deeply as you say you did, then had played as deeply ME2 as you
seemingly didn't, you would have found the story followed just fine and that Cerberus fit into the scheme of it all. If you had the deepest possible chat in your encounter with Liara on Illium, she would have revealed quite a bit about Cerberus, and the tie-in back to ME becomes richer..  ME was definitely the better story as ME2 was more about building your companions and recruiting for the end mission, than was the overall stroyline, but that absolute end scene before the credits roll, lends well to ME2 being a good game when reflecting back on ME

That post did look harsh on ME2. I really did love it. I sunk a similar amount of time into it. It was special. Just not QUITE as special!
And besides those little nice details that were missing, it was for 2 reasons;
1. I couldnt tell TIM to go and get spaced. <_<
2. The collecters were a bunch of incompetent mooks who's plan was to make a giant Terminator Robot

I recommend you watch Spoiler Warning
http://www.shamusyou...spoilerwarning/
Its a show by Shamus Young from the Escapist, in the style of MST3K
He breaks Mass Effect 2 open like chinese fortune cookie. Really funny.

[orbit991]

Canadish that's pretty much my experience, never really played rpg's till ME and DOA and was blown away by the detail and depth in those games, till that point I looked at games as a simple fun distraction and not something with much substance. To bad I hopped on the Bioware bandwagon a bit late.
You mentioned Shadow of the Colossus, I never played that, since my friend showed me the ending(what a dip), but it was just damn jaw dropping. The music was also in a whole other league composition wise from most any other video game.

[AkiKishi]

Not just a Reaper.... A...Human Reaper

I liked ME2's combat, that saved the game for me.

orbit991 wrote...
You mentioned Shadow of the Colossus, I never played that, since my friend showed me the ending(what a dip), but it was just damn jaw dropping. The music was also in a whole other league composition wise from most any other video game.

Their new game is called "Last Guardian"

Modifié par BobSmith101, 02 avril 2011 - 10:05 .

[orbit991]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Not just a Reaper.... A...Human Reaper

I liked ME2's combat, that saved the game for me.

orbit991 wrote...
You mentioned Shadow of the Colossus, I never played that, since my friend showed me the ending(what a dip), but it was just damn jaw dropping. The music was also in a whole other league composition wise from most any other video game.

Their new game is called "Last Guardian"

Thanks BobSmith, but damn, it's PS3 only.

[Canadish]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Not just a Reaper.... A...Human Reaper

I liked ME2's combat, that saved the game for me.

orbit991 wrote...
You mentioned Shadow of the Colossus, I never played that, since my friend showed me the ending(what a dip), but it was just damn jaw dropping. The music was also in a whole other league composition wise from most any other video game.

Their new game is called "Last Guardian"

Yeah....the way Shepard said it made me facepalm hard....but like you said, the combat and the rest of the game saved it. DA2 didnt have a good game to back up it's fail ending.

I'll also agree with Orbit here on SOTC, all wonderful stuff
Cant wait for Last Guardian! 
Offtopictalkisnowover....
Yeah, good to hear someone else has had a similar experience to me. It kinda funny that Bioware only recently turned me into the type of gamer it seems to not care about anymore!

[ransompendragon]

Put me down as hardcore, old school.

[AkiKishi]

orbit991 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Not just a Reaper.... A...Human Reaper

I liked ME2's combat, that saved the game for me.

orbit991 wrote...
You mentioned Shadow of the Colossus, I never played that, since my friend showed me the ending(what a dip), but it was just damn jaw dropping. The music was also in a whole other league composition wise from most any other video game.

Their new game is called "Last Guardian"

Thanks BobSmith, but damn, it's PS3 only.

Ico and SotC were PS2.

Those were just works of art (as well as great games). If Last Guardian is anything like that and I almost got teary watching the "demo" then it's worth buying a PS3 for.

The Guardian has so much character , it's just amazing.

[Tommy6860]

Canadish wrote...

That post did look harsh on ME2. I really did love it. I sunk a similar amount of time into it. It was special. Just not QUITE as special!
And besides those little nice details that were missing, it was for 2 reasons;
1. I couldnt tell TIM to go and get spaced. <_<

Simply not being able to tell TIM that specific thing took that much away from ME2, seriously?? At the end you could tell him a few things similar and alluded to that.. It would be like being able to tell Loghain to FO in DA:O, but you can't. But what effect on the game story would that really offer anyway??

2. The collecters were a bunch of incompetent mooks who's plan was to make a giant Terminator Robot

Except that what you say here isn't even close to being what happened, you over-simplify this and are giving the total misrepresentation of that particular scene. I admit though, that end sequence boss fight was pretty weak and didn't do much for me when considering the technology of the primary antagonists.

I recommend you watch Spoiler Warning
http://www.shamusyou...spoilerwarning/
Its a show by Shamus Young from the Escapist, in the style of MST3K
He breaks Mass Effect 2 open like chinese fortune cookie. Really funny.

I don't need to watch videos made on YT or get a review from one guy who made so many video clips on what he thinks the games are, that I would spend nearly as much time watching him as playing the game. There are enough of these out there, and most people can make up their own minds by playing the games. I rarely go to gaming sites to get an idea of the quality of a game, but I do read (non-hateful) gamer blogs/opinions to what  some opinions are about games. I wished I had done this more with DA2, I would have not purchased it. My primary point about your thoughts of ME and ME2 are that one line summaries you give don't fit the whole story or the quality. I won't give spoilers, but it isn't anything close to what you say it is, even if you loved the games.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 02 avril 2011 - 10:21 .

[LoneStalker]

First three of my favorites list;
1) Fallout 2
2) Half-Life
3) X-Wing Alliance.

So, does this make me a hardcore fan of... nothing? I have been playing different kinds of games but trying to stick with generally acclaimed ones only. Only once I made a purchase based on hype (guess which game?) it proved to be a huge disappointment... Better be more cautious than sorry next time...

[Tripedius]

Don't know if I fit into the ' old school' category. Liked BG, IWD, PS:T and DA:O. Only things I really want in my rpgs are:
- a party, either with npc companions or all selfmade characters
- a nice story
- lots of variation in quests, monsters, npc's and locations
- tactical combat, meaning combat more as a puzzle than as a how fast you click contest

If that makes me ' hardcore' or ' old school' so be it.

[Tommy6860]

LoneStalker wrote...

First three of my favorites list;
1) Fallout 2
2) Half-Life
3) X-Wing Alliance.

So, does this make me a hardcore fan of... nothing? I have been playing different kinds of games but trying to stick with generally acclaimed ones only. Only once I made a purchase based on hype (guess which game?) it proved to be a huge disappointment... Better be more cautious than sorry next time...

Those are essentially all shooters. Fallout 2 was more the RPG than the other two you list here.

[Rabid Rooster]

I enjoy many types of games but will always be a hardcore RPG fan. I judge all RPGs by BG1 & BG2. When I first played DA:O I was so happy, I was like now this is the BG Bioware that I know and love and then here comes DA 2 what a crap feast that was . Sadly the old Bioware is no more Its decline began with Atrari and its death nail was EA. They really have not been the same since they split with Blackisle and Interplay ( the people that made them great seem to have all gone.)

[dujh]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Personally soft core just looks nicer... anyway.

I play games I enjoy, I doubt I'm classified as Hardcore because I play games that aren't RPGs. Sure, they're my favorite, but, I'll give any genre a go.

same