28 réponses à ce sujet

[Lithuasil]

Foolsfolly wrote...
No, no, no. More information is always better than too litte. It's like saying we should get rid of health meters on enemies so it's more realistic, well I like to know how long this fight is going to go.

I agree with the most of your post, just not with that part. More information, in menues, is always better, yes. But Onscreen, if possible, I'd like as little bars, numbers and icons as possible. And imho, when a boss only becomes challenging, once you can wrap his healthbar around jupiter, somethings wrong with the combat in the first place.

[DJ0000]

Having read some complaints, I have the idea that mabey the game should also keep track of certain 'Charecter Values' aswell as approvals.

For example, it could keep track of the fact that you are a templar supporter and seperately track your support for blood magic and another for slavery.

That way if you generally support the templars but fight against blood magic Ander's would see them both as seperate views.

Similarly, Fenris could track disagree with you supporting mages but also respect that you don't support blood magic.

I think it would work better by tracking certain decisions rather than a bar. I could however see this being stupidly complex for no real benefit.

[nijnij]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

nijnij wrote...

I disagree. If I had never included Isabela in my party, or never had a conversation with her, then we'd have what you may call a neutral co-worker relationship. If, however, we go through each quest together, have every possible conversation, begin a romance, etc, it is a perfectly meaningful relationship, just because it's not black or white doesn't mean it's inexistant.

If you can have respect for someone who's different from you in every way, why not have respect for someone with whom you're relationship is just as powerful, but less black or white ?

If Isabela came back with the relic ONLY for her soulmate/BFF, I'd say it's coherent. However, if she comes back even for someone who's a pain in the back just because somehow she cares about their respect, I don't see why she wouldn't care for the respect of another friend whose friendship happens to be more stable and less caricatural.

To me, that's just psychologically absurd.

You're assuming that your relationship is powerful simply because you spent a lot of time with her. I've had coworkers I've spent years with on a daily/weekly basis, but not felt particularly strong about either way. I'd chat with them about life, pop culture, or current events. I'd help them out when they asked for it, and go to them for help when I needed it. I wouldn't call them friends, I certainly wouldn't call them rivals, I'd call them acquaintances or coworkers.

Similarly, when I went through high school, there were several people who shared classes with me for four years. Sometimes I'd work with them on projects. I might have gone out with one of them a few times. We had a shared relationship with the school in common, but I certainly wouldn't say that they are friends or rivals. They're just classmates. That doesn't necessarily entail a meaningful relationship either. 

In order for a relationship to really be powerful or meaningful, you need a stronger bond with the person. I did make friends in high school, and they remain friends with me today. I've also transitioned from "coworker" to "friend" with some folks too over the years. These are folks I'd go to bat for. Not the coworkers or classmates. That stronger bond is what the friendship or rivalry meter represents.

I agree with everything in regard to the friendship, not so much regarding the rivalry. Though I didn't get the rivalry from Isabela so I can't say for sure, but I have trouble imagining why she would come back when you're a rival to her. Merrill's rivalry is kind of special, because you can be on the friendship path and become a rival instantly with one plot decision, so the fact that she apologizes and comes back to you make sense. Isa's rivalry, on the other hand, seems less sudden, more thought out, and for her to change her mind like that seems a little weird to me.

[hoorayforicecream]

nijnij wrote...

I agree with everything in regard to the friendship, not so much regarding the rivalry. Though I didn't get the rivalry from Isabela so I can't say for sure, but I have trouble imagining why she would come back when you're a rival to her. Merrill's rivalry is kind of special, because you can be on the friendship path and become a rival instantly with one plot decision, so the fact that she apologizes and comes back to you make sense. Isa's rivalry, on the other hand, seems less sudden, more thought out, and for her to change her mind like that seems a little weird to me.

Rivalry is perhaps misnamed in DA2. It's not quite like a real-life rivalry where you really would be happier without the other person. Rivalry in the DA2 context appears to be close friends with fundamentally differing viewpoints. In Isabela's case, it isn't showcased quite as well as it is with, say, Merrill or Fenris. Part of that is that it's really hard to show somebody who's capricious and carefree showing some grudging respect to somebody who cares about her and wants to hold her to a higher standard. That sort of thing requires a lot of subtlety, and that's really tough to convey in the few conversations Hawke and Isabela have. Even worse, the rivalry romance uses the same sex scene as the friendship one, so it's very hot and cold with very little to help alleviate the mood whiplash. She literally goes from "You're no fun, stop bothering me" to "Let's have sex" to "You're no fun at all" again.

While I like the idea of Isabela's rivalry path, I think that her friendship path has had a lot more time spent on it to make it feel better.